Ah!
Thanks Dave!
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9 Feb 2020, at 23:25, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
To see what CMS mods there are in the n-Pack logon to maint and type
CMSACC
This accesses the CMS modifications disk as "B" and then do
EE HRCMODS MEMO B
You will see HRC371DS implements this change. So
MEMO HRC371DS B1
Will contain details of how this is implemented.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
rvjansen@...
Sent: 09 February 2020 20:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] building BREXX
One piece of the puzzle is this:
There is no DMSREX module in VM/370. Ren¨¦ Ferland confirmed this.
The RESLIB command is used to load BREXX TEXT into resident storage.
RESLIB itself is not documented in the official VM/370 documents, I just read
the System Programmer¡¯s guide and the CMS Commands and Macros guide.
It is documented by HELP RESLIB, and was written by Andrew Hanushevsky,
Langmuir Laboratory, Cornell University in 1980.
The HELP RESLIB (MORE command states that every program that is loaded in
this way, needs to be serially reusable (which is one step above/below
reentrant/reenterable, depending on how you see it). This means BREXX
may not have compiler initialized static variables. I wonder if GCC has an
option to make sure it does not, and I would be more at ease if it was
reentrant.
The loading is done for each VM/user by an exec called SYSPROF EXEC. I
found out by doing a RESLIB DELETE GCCLIB, RESLIB DELETE DMSREX for my
MAINT user, and trying to make it work again afterwards. It did not, because
the botched builds left a wrong SYSPROF EXEC on MAINT¡¯s A disk, or that is
what I think.
As soon as I found this, and deleted the one on the A disk, the one on the V
disk is executed at logon and the info is correct again. Interestingly, the
modules GCCLIB and DMSREXX are loaded at different (virtual) address in
different userid¡¯s. Then I remembered that the release notes for Sixpack 1.2
say:
? During initialization, CMS executes "SYSPROF EXEC" before
executing "PROFILE EXEC". This allows you to ensure certain commands are
always executed for users.
These commands are the RESLIB commands for BREXX; it then chains
SYSPROX EXEC for the mecaff programs.
I¡¯ll keep you posted on more progress, for example whe I find out how the
exec processor finds it is a REXX exec, which is rather anachronistic for this
level of VM.
best regards,
Ren¨¦ Jansen.
|
To see what CMS mods there are in the n-Pack logon to maint and type
CMSACC
This accesses the CMS modifications disk as "B" and then do
EE HRCMODS MEMO B
You will see HRC371DS implements this change. So
MEMO HRC371DS B1
Will contain details of how this is implemented.
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
rvjansen@...
Sent: 09 February 2020 20:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] building BREXX
One piece of the puzzle is this:
There is no DMSREX module in VM/370. Ren¨¦ Ferland confirmed this.
The RESLIB command is used to load BREXX TEXT into resident storage.
RESLIB itself is not documented in the official VM/370 documents, I just read
the System Programmer¡¯s guide and the CMS Commands and Macros guide.
It is documented by HELP RESLIB, and was written by Andrew Hanushevsky,
Langmuir Laboratory, Cornell University in 1980.
The HELP RESLIB (MORE command states that every program that is loaded in
this way, needs to be serially reusable (which is one step above/below
reentrant/reenterable, depending on how you see it). This means BREXX
may not have compiler initialized static variables. I wonder if GCC has an
option to make sure it does not, and I would be more at ease if it was
reentrant.
The loading is done for each VM/user by an exec called SYSPROF EXEC. I
found out by doing a RESLIB DELETE GCCLIB, RESLIB DELETE DMSREX for my
MAINT user, and trying to make it work again afterwards. It did not, because
the botched builds left a wrong SYSPROF EXEC on MAINT¡¯s A disk, or that is
what I think.
As soon as I found this, and deleted the one on the A disk, the one on the V
disk is executed at logon and the info is correct again. Interestingly, the
modules GCCLIB and DMSREXX are loaded at different (virtual) address in
different userid¡¯s. Then I remembered that the release notes for Sixpack 1.2
say:
? During initialization, CMS executes "SYSPROF EXEC" before
executing "PROFILE EXEC". This allows you to ensure certain commands are
always executed for users.
These commands are the RESLIB commands for BREXX; it then chains
SYSPROX EXEC for the mecaff programs.
I¡¯ll keep you posted on more progress, for example whe I find out how the
exec processor finds it is a REXX exec, which is rather anachronistic for this
level of VM.
best regards,
Ren¨¦ Jansen.
|
One piece of the puzzle is this:
There is no DMSREX module in VM/370. Ren¨¦ Ferland confirmed this.
The RESLIB command is used to load BREXX TEXT into resident storage. RESLIB itself is not documented in the official VM/370 documents, I just read the System Programmer¡¯s guide and the CMS Commands and Macros guide. It is documented by HELP RESLIB, and was written by Andrew Hanushevsky, Langmuir Laboratory, Cornell University in 1980.
The HELP RESLIB (MORE command states that every program that is loaded in this way, needs to be serially reusable (which is one step above/below reentrant/reenterable, depending on how you see it). This means BREXX may not have compiler initialized static variables. I wonder if GCC has an option to make sure it does not, and I would be more at ease if it was reentrant.
The loading is done for each VM/user by an exec called SYSPROF EXEC. I found out by doing a RESLIB DELETE GCCLIB, RESLIB DELETE DMSREX for my MAINT user, and trying to make it work again afterwards. It did not, because the botched builds left a wrong SYSPROF EXEC on MAINT¡¯s A disk, or that is what I think.
As soon as I found this, and deleted the one on the A disk, the one on the V disk is executed at logon and the info is correct again. Interestingly, the modules GCCLIB and DMSREXX are loaded at different (virtual) address in different userid¡¯s. Then I remembered that the release notes for Sixpack 1.2 say:
? During initialization, CMS executes "SYSPROF EXEC" before executing "PROFILE EXEC". This allows you to ensure certain commands are always executed for users.
These commands are the RESLIB commands for BREXX; it then chains SYSPROX EXEC for the mecaff programs.
I¡¯ll keep you posted on more progress, for example whe I find out how the exec processor finds it is a REXX exec, which is rather anachronistic for this level of VM.
best regards,
Ren¨¦ Jansen.
|
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 11:16 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
CMSLIB TXTLIB contains these five members:
Peter, you are right, I am talking nonsense! I always get mixed up. I mean GCCLIB not CMSLIB!!? Notice to all ...? whenever I say CMSLIB please read GCCLIB ... So GCCLIB is the CMS native stdc lib and PDPCLIB is Paul's os macro version. You don't want both ...
|
adriansutherland67 wrote:
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 11:55 PM, rvjansen@... wrote:
GLOBAL TXTLIB CMSLIB PLILIB FORTLIB TSOLIB GCCLIB PDPCLIB
Are you sure you want CMSLIB? This will interfere with gcclib.
Cmslib is a CMS native (rather than os emulated) stdc lib.
CMSLIB TXTLIB contains these five members: IEAXPSIM IEAXPALL IEAXKALL IEAXPDXR IEAXKDXR What have any of these to do with any C runtime library? Regards, Peter Coghlan.
|
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 11:55 PM, rvjansen@... wrote:
) I/O functions flakey (LINEIN, LINEOUT) (Gerard Wassink complained recently on the Moshix Discord)
Not knowing if brexx is linked to gcclib or cmslib ... I would want it linked to cmslib ... and it is here that any io should be sorted.
|
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 11:55 PM, rvjansen@... wrote:
3) Overwrite of storage
This might just be a known defect with the version of cmslib installed on 6pack 1.3 beta 3. This is what started me down the winding road ...
|
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 11:55 PM, rvjansen@... wrote:
GLOBAL TXTLIB CMSLIB PLILIB FORTLIB TSOLIB GCCLIB PDPCLIB
Are you sure you want CMSLIB? This will interfere with gcclib.? Cmslib is a CMS native (rather than os emulated) stdc lib. I suspect brexx builds with gcclib currently ... Adrian
|
So I would support this and started with CMSLIB. I?have a repository with buildable code.
I want to set up a GitHub action so that code can be built automatically on a push, and a release (on a tape) produced on a tag.?
I am nearly there:.? ?
- I have a VM/370 docker container for the runner
- I have made herccontrol that allows me to automate the build through a script
- I have yata (yet another text archive), a light weight tool to allow me to send source code via the punch reader to cms. This autobuilds (as above) but it needs a change to handle lines over 80 characters. The point is it is a simple c program that builds on CMS, Linux, or Windows.
So I just need to do yata and set up the script for CMSLIB and then I can tackle some bugs in it. And then move to do the same to other facilities, etc.
All on GitHub under adesutherland
My lesson learnt is that GitHub actions are painful to debug!
It would be amazing to work with folks to have a repository for CP and for CMS, and so on. Each building automatically and running some tests. And a master repository that builds distributions from fresh with different configurations (min size, everything, everything with source, Fortran, c, COBOL, etc.)
|
Hi,
I need some help in building BREXX. I wanted to have a look at some of the problems it has, and prepare for testing it if the new sixpack level comes out.
This is what I have done until now:
brexx source is on minidisk brexx 191
link brexx 191 202 mr
password
acc 202 j
I have put GCCLIB and PDPCLIB on RESLIB:
GLOBAL TXTLIB CMSLIB PLILIB FORTLIB TSOLIB GCCLIB PDPCLIB
GLOBAL MACLIB DMSGPI CMSHRC CMSLIB OSMACRO TSOMAC OPCODES
mkbrexx
¡
....
Compiling X2D
Loading BREXX...
Creating BREXX MODULE...
Creating BREXX TEXT for resident loading...
INPUT FILE 'MAIN TEXT J' NOT FOUND.
Ready(00028); T=108.89/131.73 22:58:05
This is correct because the .TEXT files ended up on my A disk.
If I load main test, I get errors
load main
THE FOLLOWING NAMES ARE UNDEFINED:
RXINITIA LSCPY RXRUN RXFINALI RXRETURN LCAT LREAD
More of these errors are to be found in the file BREXX MAP on the J disk. So this is where I am stuck at the moment.
I would also like to know how the interface to exec works. In z/VM, DMSREX is called by this, and it turn calls IXXRIN. I cannot find a DMSREX on V/370. I know of the conventions to choose Madnick¡¯s EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX. I assume there is no EXEC2 on VM/370 but I did not check.
A few days ago I read about plans to setup a github repository for VM/370 so we could have the latest sources and maybe an way to file issues. I would be a proponent of this. I saw that the brexx repository recently forked on github, for the version that now runs on MVS 3.8 TK4-. I have a fork of the brexx repository on rvjansen/brexx (for some pull requests I made for the macos build procedure) and I will try to keep up the cms code in there, and, for the moment, keep my CMS brexx issues, but I¡¯d rather we¡¯d move to a more central github repository which keeps all of the VM/370 sources.
I have great respect for the way the procedure works on VM, but this, and for example, SMP/E, are not really geared to modern day open source collaboration. I would love to hear if someone made the effort, I think it would be a good thing for the community.
As a start, I wiil enter these issues in my github issue list:
BREXX bugs
1) HX or HI sometimes do not work. User needs to be forced off to stop some scripts, for example the well known WHENRUBO EXEC.
2) Odd problem with file not found with STATE:
File written: REXXVERS EXEC A1
Ready; T=0.02/0.04 00:36:54
type rexxvers exec
/* REXX */
PARSE VERSION X
SAY X
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:37:02
rexxvers
--¡ú Cannot find the just edited and saved file
fopen error: file 'STATE REXXVERS *' not found.
Error 58 running "REXXVERSC": File not found
Ready; T=0.02/0.03 00:37:09
--¡ú copy it to another file
copyfile rexxvers exec a version exec a
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:37:47
version
bREXX 2.1.8 Aug 6 2010
Ready; T=0.02/0.03 00:37:52
--¡ú after the copy IT CAN FIND IT ????
rexxvers
bREXX 2.1.8 Aug 6 2010
Ready; T=0.02/0.03 00:39:50
3) Overwrite of storage
DMSABN149T 109 (HEX 00006D) DOUBLEWORDS OF SYSTEM STORAGE HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. RE-IPL CMS.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 6001F04E'
4) I/O functions flakey (LINEIN, LINEOUT) (Gerard Wassink complained recently on the Moshix Discord)
5) Leaving out arguments but then trying to use them is a recipe for dumps.
best regards,
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦.
|
Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 at 20:22, Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...> wrote: Full screen CMS was/is a awful hack -- all the native CM/SP line
oriented output is intercepted using IUCV and redirected to the full
screen environment. And yes, because the output is written,
intercepted, and written again, it is a resource pig.
Full screen CMS also used command names that polluted the existing
namespace. For example in VM/SP 4 you simple could enter "HELP DEFINE"
to get the information on the CP command to define virtual devices, but
in VM/SP "HELP DEFINE" would return information on DEFINE WINDOW and
DEFINE VSCREEN. ("HELP CP DEFINE" was required for the old behavior.)
The first VM/SP version with full screen CMS is VM/SP 5. The LCM+L 4361
runs VM/SP 5, and yes, you can issue "SET FULLSCREEN ON" on it (may
Ceiling Cat have mercy on your virtual CPU). Tony H.
|
Re: Using the real card reader
Gentlemen - than you all for your help - sorted :-)
For future visitors ref?
- read * to read the fine from your rdr list. This is digestible -??-?(anyone, was there a r6 version?)
-? you also need a read control card, also fixed format (described in the punch cp help).
Example of the input file to hercules, which is routed to CMSUSER and which READ can then give the right name.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
USERID? CMSUSER
:READ? TESTNAME TESTTYPE A1 CMS191 01/01/20? 18:20?
Test Punch file
Line 2 etc.
|
Re: Using the real card reader
You need a ¡°USERID¡± card with two spaces after the ¡°USERID¡±, e.g. ? USERID? GCCCMS ? on the front of the deck. Then do ? ¡°CP START ccu¡± ? On a user id with appropriate permissions. ?If you are using files then Judicious use of the ¡°EOF¡± and ¡°INTREQ¡± options allow you to have the USERID card in a separate file. ? Dave ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of adriansutherland67
Sent: 02 February 2020 16:47
To: [email protected]
Subject: [h390-vm] Using the real card reader? Can someone help with the recipe for getting VP/CMS to read cards and spool to a user ... I am at a loss :-(
A the moment the device is drained.?
Thanks
Adrian
|
Re: Using the real card reader
Can someone help with the recipe for getting VP/CMS to read cards and spool
to a user ... I am at a loss :-(
the moment the device is drained.
You need to get it started. There can be some confusion because if you just enter the command: START 00C while logged on as MAINT for example, this will get passed to CMS which is not what you want and you will end up with an error something like this: ENTRY POINT '00C' NOT FOUND. Ready(00040); T=0.01/0.01 16:56:51 Try this command instead: CP START 00C and you should get a message something like this instead: RDR 00C STARTED SYSTEM Ready; T=0.01/0.01 17:01:04 Then, in order to cause a deck of cards to be spooled to a particular user, the first card should consist of something like: USERID CMSUSER for example to cause the cards to be spooled to CMSUSER. Regards, Peter Coghlan.
|
Re: Using the real card reader
Have you seen this video:?
At about 11m50s it describes adding a user ID card to the start of the deck (file) then goes on to show the Hercules devinit required.? Are you doig those things?
On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 at 16:47, adriansutherland67 < adrian@...> wrote: Can someone help with the recipe for getting VP/CMS to read cards and spool to a user ... I am at a loss :-(
A the moment the device is drained.?
Thanks
Adrian
|
Using the real card reader
Can someone help with the recipe for getting VP/CMS to read cards and spool to a user ... I am at a loss :-(
A the moment the device is drained.?
Thanks
Adrian
|
Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Gregg,
Sorry Gregg this is not something I have ever done, somewhere along the way, someone else added it, and it became part of the n-packs.
That is the idea of the 9-packs, to allow you to use VM.
I don't think any system mods are involved so you could just dump the minidisk
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg Levine
Sent: 02 February 2020 00:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
I said I knew it was out there, I did not miss one. If nothing I might have
definitely did so, it is because I did not download it before.now. I just did.
Can you describe completely the steps to do all of that?
And please use simple language. I believe there are people following our list
who're just starting out on this, and do indeed need to know stuff like this.
And all of this will become clear to the one also named Dave, who is allowing
a group of workers from Asia to run his shop/museum.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Gregg,
You missed one!
and there is an additional optional tape
You need to BUNZIP it ad then you can load the first file which is
ABSTRACT ABSTRACT
I think you will find file 39 is stuff you need.
You need to create a user CPWATCH and load the file to its disk...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: 02 February 2020 00:22
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
So its been added to the basic system regarding the 6 Pack series? I
know there's a Waterloo tape some place for the basic system and of
course the dreaded additional pack tape that we know how to install
but I confess I do not know how.
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /media/memory0/h390/*.aws.*
/media/memory0/h390/base-source.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/CPR6L0.ddr.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/ptf-616.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/starter-3330.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/VMREL6.ddr.aws.bz2
For example up there is the base-source.aws.bz2 one, and then the CP
tape also packaged as an AWS one and compressed using Bzip2 and that
PTF tape, and the crazy one is marked starter-3330.aws.bz2. That's
the one that's got me a trifle peeved.
I understand making use of the two named as the system ones, as they
were restored a while back, I have kept complete decks or rather drive
images.
So are the Waterloo things on those two ones, I've not restored? And
how would I go about bringing the starter one into the Bob set I use.
Of course I could go ahead and bring up next time the current but
not Beta six pack.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the
Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:10 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...>
wrote:
Gregg
Its an add-on so it is only in the "n--packs" The source is on the
Waterloo
tape. It may need tweaking as it was originally written on sepp/bsepp.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: 31 January 2020 01:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
It does? Then why did I get this from a DIAL CPWATCH command
string on the original one, DIAL CPWATCH DMKDIA045E CPWATCH
NOT LOGGED ON
IND from the console not the 3270 shows what it is doing,
CPWATCH from the same place does not.
Does this mean it's a missing entry on the original Bob kit?
This will perfectly be obvious to everyone except the individual
reading this out loud to a crowd of Yeti. (Including one who
smokes a brand of smoking tobacco that's older than most of us.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the
Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:00 AM Dave Wade
<dave.g4ugm@...>
wrote:
Folks
CPWATCH reports paging rate.
Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob
Polmanter
Sent: 29 January 2020 12:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Adrian,
In my experience, I doubt you are doing all that much paging.
First off, the VM/370 CP IND command doesn't show paging stats like it did in
later releases, so it is difficult to know how much you are paging.
If you are a single user VM/370 system, running 16MB real,
even if you had
a 16MB user virtual machine, you would have to go some to cause
much paging beyond a very light amount. If you had several 16MB
user machines running simultaneously with large active working
sets, then maybe you could get the paging rate up to 5-10 pages per
second.
With Hercules caching, it just isn't a problem.
Regards,
Bob
|
Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Gary,
I don't think there is an official process because any one can share the tapes and there is no official download donation. There are quirks in the install process that aren't in the readme.
I can update
if you let me know what is needed, but as for the others all you can do is ask.
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of gdblodgett
Sent: 02 February 2020 01:52
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
As and aside, what is the proper steps to getting Bob's release6.direct file
corrected or documented?
Gary
On 2/1/20 8:49 PM, gdblodgett wrote:
Hi Greg,
You are missing the vm370r6-essentials archive. It contains the
following files:
dmkddr.aws (to restore the starter tapes)
dmkrio.assemble (supplied and tailored by Bob)
dmksys.assemble (supplied and tailored by Bob)
README.txt (starting instructions)
vm370rc.cnf (hercules configuration file)
release6.direct (user direct file for vm/370 r6 *** This
is bad don't use)
You will also need manual GC20-1801-10 VM370_Sysgen_Rel_6_Jan80. I
believe I found this on bitsavers.
During last year's discussion about automated re-creation of the
VM/370 from scratch, Paul reported that Maint's 193 (or 194) minidisk
got corrupted. I traced it down to the release6.direct file supplied
by Bob. I ended up using the user direct file that can be punched out
during the sysgen process and the Maint minidisk was intact.
Start by using either the README.txt or the sysgen manual. I
recommend using the sysgen manual as you end up there anyway. I used
3330-11 dasd instead of standard 3330 dasd primarily in case I had to
move one or more of Maint's minidisks to preserve the minidisk that
was getting corrupted. The sysgen has a step to install maintenance
and you can use the supplied PTF tape.
It was fun and a trip down memory lane as well as a learning
experience. I had never installed VM/370, just used it and applied
maintenance. The college I worked at had a 4331 with 3370 A1/B1 dasd
running VM/370 R6 and MUSIC 4.0 (maybe 5.1) and yes it has BSEPP/SEPP
installed. A few years later it was upgraded to VM/SP R3 and MUSIC
5.2. I used a 300 baud modem to dial into McGill to get patches using
a TRS-80 and daisy wheel printer.
If you elect to use the 3330-11 configuration, you will need to make
the appropriate changes to end cylinder numbers where necessary during
the various steps including the user direct file. Make sure you make
backups along the way. I didn't but then it also caused me to
remember and understand the steps better, but then I'm a hard case.
Regards,
Gary
On 2/1/20 7:47 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
I said I knew it was out there, I did not miss one. If nothing I
might have definitely did so, it is because I did not download it
before.now. I just did. Can you describe completely the steps to do
all of that?
And please use simple language. I believe there are people following
our list who're just starting out on this, and do indeed need to know
stuff like this.
And all of this will become clear to the one also named Dave, who is
allowing a group of workers from Asia to run his shop/museum.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the Time
Wars, time and again."
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Gregg,
You missed one!
and there is an additional optional tape
You need to BUNZIP it ad then you can load the first file which is
ABSTRACT ABSTRACT
I think you will find file 39 is stuff you need.
You need to create a user CPWATCH and load the file to its disk...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: 02 February 2020 00:22
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
So its been added to the basic system regarding the 6 Pack series?
I know
there's a Waterloo tape some place for the basic system and of
course the dreaded additional pack tape that we know how to install
but I confess I do not know how.
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /media/memory0/h390/*.aws.*
/media/memory0/h390/base-source.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/CPR6L0.ddr.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/ptf-616.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/starter-3330.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/VMREL6.ddr.aws.bz2
For example up there is the base-source.aws.bz2 one, and then the
CP tape also packaged as an AWS one and compressed using Bzip2 and
that PTF tape, and the crazy one is marked starter-3330.aws.bz2.
That's the one that's got me a trifle peeved.
I understand making use of the two named as the system ones, as
they were restored a while back, I have kept complete decks or
rather drive images.
So are the Waterloo things on those two ones, I've not restored?
And how
would I go about bringing the starter one into the Bob set I use.
Of course I could go ahead and bring up next time the current but
not Beta six pack.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the
Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:10 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...>
wrote:
Gregg
Its an add-on so it is only in the "n--packs" The source is on the
Waterloo tape. It may need tweaking as it was originally written on sepp/bsepp.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
Gregg
Levine
Sent: 31 January 2020 01:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
It does? Then why did I get this from a DIAL CPWATCH command
string on the original one, DIAL CPWATCH DMKDIA045E CPWATCH
NOT
LOGGED ON
IND from the console not the 3270 shows what it is doing, CPWATCH
from the same place does not.
Does this mean it's a missing entry on the original Bob kit? This
will perfectly be obvious to everyone except the individual
reading this out loud to a crowd of Yeti. (Including one who
smokes a brand of smoking tobacco that's older than most of us.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the
Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:00 AM Dave Wade
<dave.g4ugm@...>
wrote:
Folks
CPWATCH reports paging rate.
Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
Bob
Polmanter
Sent: 29 January 2020 12:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Adrian,
In my experience, I doubt you are doing all that much paging.
First off, the VM/370 CP IND command doesn't show paging stats like it did in
later releases, so it is difficult to know how much you are paging.
If you are a single user VM/370 system, running 16MB real, even
if you had a 16MB user virtual machine, you would have to go some to cause
much paging beyond a very light amount. If you had several 16MB
user machines running simultaneously with large active working
sets, then maybe you could get the paging rate up to 5-10 pages per
second.
With Hercules caching, it just isn't a problem.
Regards,
Bob
|
Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
Um no I am not. I do have a copy of it.
It is funny that you mention that you then used a TRS-80 and the daisy
wheel printer that it worked with. It happens that back when Hercules
was both first announced, and that the Bob set of VM/370rel6 was also,
I had plans to do two things, that of track down an appropriate
Selectric Typewriter and then confuse it to work as a serial output in
to it printer, and terminal.I do not know if Adam originally of SNA is
on this list, but he was then on Hercules-390, and might have joined
the original VM list, convinced me to discontinue that idea.
The original idea? To reproduce the output properly. This was well
before Fish produced his Windows based networking stack, and the
printer product. His console screen idea would surface later.
That all was done on a system running Slackware-7.2 (Not released, it
was their January 2000 snapshot.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 8:49 PM gdblodgett <gdblodgett@...> wrote:
Hi Greg,
You are missing the vm370r6-essentials archive. It contains the
following files:
dmkddr.aws (to restore the starter tapes)
dmkrio.assemble (supplied and tailored by Bob)
dmksys.assemble (supplied and tailored by Bob)
README.txt (starting instructions)
vm370rc.cnf (hercules configuration file)
release6.direct (user direct file for vm/370 r6 *** This
is bad don't use)
You will also need manual GC20-1801-10 VM370_Sysgen_Rel_6_Jan80. I
believe I found this on bitsavers.
During last year's discussion about automated re-creation of the VM/370
from scratch, Paul reported that Maint's 193 (or 194) minidisk got
corrupted. I traced it down to the release6.direct file supplied by
Bob. I ended up using the user direct file that can be punched out
during the sysgen process and the Maint minidisk was intact.
Start by using either the README.txt or the sysgen manual. I recommend
using the sysgen manual as you end up there anyway. I used 3330-11 dasd
instead of standard 3330 dasd primarily in case I had to move one or
more of Maint's minidisks to preserve the minidisk that was getting
corrupted. The sysgen has a step to install maintenance and you can use
the supplied PTF tape.
It was fun and a trip down memory lane as well as a learning
experience. I had never installed VM/370, just used it and applied
maintenance. The college I worked at had a 4331 with 3370 A1/B1 dasd
running VM/370 R6 and MUSIC 4.0 (maybe 5.1) and yes it has BSEPP/SEPP
installed. A few years later it was upgraded to VM/SP R3 and MUSIC 5.2.
I used a 300 baud modem to dial into McGill to get patches using a
TRS-80 and daisy wheel printer.
If you elect to use the 3330-11 configuration, you will need to make the
appropriate changes to end cylinder numbers where necessary during the
various steps including the user direct file. Make sure you make
backups along the way. I didn't but then it also caused me to remember
and understand the steps better, but then I'm a hard case.
Regards,
Gary
On 2/1/20 7:47 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
I said I knew it was out there, I did not miss one. If nothing I might
have definitely did so, it is because I did not download it
before.now. I just did. Can you describe completely the steps to do
all of that?
And please use simple language. I believe there are people following
our list who're just starting out on this, and do indeed need to know
stuff like this.
And all of this will become clear to the one also named Dave, who is
allowing a group of workers from Asia to run his shop/museum.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Gregg,
You missed one!
and there is an additional optional tape
You need to BUNZIP it ad then you can load the first file which is ABSTRACT ABSTRACT
I think you will find file 39 is stuff you need.
You need to create a user CPWATCH and load the file to its disk...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg Levine
Sent: 02 February 2020 00:22
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
So its been added to the basic system regarding the 6 Pack series? I know
there's a Waterloo tape some place for the basic system and of course the
dreaded additional pack tape that we know how to install but I confess I do
not know how.
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /media/memory0/h390/*.aws.*
/media/memory0/h390/base-source.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/CPR6L0.ddr.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/ptf-616.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/starter-3330.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/VMREL6.ddr.aws.bz2
For example up there is the base-source.aws.bz2 one, and then the CP tape
also packaged as an AWS one and compressed using Bzip2 and that PTF tape,
and the crazy one is marked starter-3330.aws.bz2. That's the one that's got
me a trifle peeved.
I understand making use of the two named as the system ones, as they were
restored a while back, I have kept complete decks or rather drive images.
So are the Waterloo things on those two ones, I've not restored? And how
would I go about bringing the starter one into the Bob set I use.
Of course I could go ahead and bring up next time the current but not Beta
six pack.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:10 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Gregg
Its an add-on so it is only in the "n--packs" The source is on the Waterloo tape. It may need tweaking as it was originally written on sepp/bsepp.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: 31 January 2020 01:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
It does? Then why did I get this from a DIAL CPWATCH command string
on the original one, DIAL CPWATCH DMKDIA045E CPWATCH NOT LOGGED ON
IND from the console not the 3270 shows what it is doing, CPWATCH
from the same place does not.
Does this mean it's a missing entry on the original Bob kit? This
will perfectly be obvious to everyone except the individual reading
this out loud to a crowd of Yeti. (Including one who smokes a brand
of smoking tobacco that's older than most of us.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the
Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:00 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...>
wrote:
Folks
CPWATCH reports paging rate.
Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Polmanter
Sent: 29 January 2020 12:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Adrian,
In my experience, I doubt you are doing all that much paging.
First off, the VM/370 CP IND command doesn't show paging stats like it did in later
releases, so it is difficult to know how much you are paging.
If you are a single user VM/370 system, running 16MB real, even if
you had a 16MB user virtual machine, you would have to go some to cause much
paging beyond a very light amount. If you had several 16MB user
machines running simultaneously with large active working sets, then
maybe you could get the paging rate up to 5-10 pages per second.
With Hercules caching, it just isn't a problem.
Regards,
Bob
|
Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
As and aside, what is the proper steps to getting Bob's release6.direct file corrected or documented?
Gary
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/1/20 8:49 PM, gdblodgett wrote: Hi Greg,
You are missing the vm370r6-essentials archive.? It contains the following files:
??? dmkddr.aws??? ??? ??? (to restore the starter tapes)
??? dmkrio.assemble??? (supplied and tailored by Bob)
??? dmksys.assemble??? (supplied and tailored by Bob)
??? README.txt??? ??? ??? (starting instructions)
??? vm370rc.cnf??? ??? ??? (hercules configuration file)
??? release6.direct??? ??? (user direct file for vm/370 r6?? *** This is bad don't use)
You will also need manual GC20-1801-10 VM370_Sysgen_Rel_6_Jan80. I believe I found this on bitsavers.
During last year's discussion about automated re-creation of the VM/370 from scratch, Paul reported that Maint's 193 (or 194) minidisk got corrupted.? I traced it down to the release6.direct file supplied by Bob.? I ended up using the user direct file that can be punched out during the sysgen process and the Maint minidisk was intact.
Start by using either the README.txt or the sysgen manual.? I recommend using the sysgen manual as you end up there anyway.? I used 3330-11 dasd instead of standard 3330 dasd primarily in case I had to move one or more of Maint's minidisks to preserve the minidisk that was getting corrupted.? The sysgen has a step to install maintenance and you can use the supplied PTF tape.
It was fun and a trip down memory lane as well as a learning experience.? I had never installed VM/370, just used it and applied maintenance.? The college I worked at had a 4331 with 3370 A1/B1 dasd running VM/370 R6 and MUSIC 4.0 (maybe 5.1) and yes it has BSEPP/SEPP installed. A few years later it was upgraded to VM/SP R3 and MUSIC 5.2.? I used a 300 baud modem to dial into McGill to get patches using a TRS-80 and daisy wheel printer.
If you elect to use the 3330-11 configuration, you will need to make the appropriate changes to end cylinder numbers where necessary during the various steps including the user direct file.? Make sure you make backups along the way.? I didn't but then it also caused me to remember and understand the steps better, but then I'm a hard case.
Regards,
Gary
On 2/1/20 7:47 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
I said I knew it was out there, I did not miss one. If nothing I might
have definitely did so, it is because I did not download it
before.now. I just did. Can you describe completely the steps to do
all of that?
And please use simple language. I believe there are people following
our list who're just starting out on this, and do indeed need to know
stuff like this.
And all of this will become clear to the one also named Dave, who is
allowing a group of workers from Asia to run his shop/museum.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Gregg,
You missed one!
and there? is an additional optional tape
You need to BUNZIP it ad then you can load the first file which is ABSTRACT ABSTRACT
I think you will find file 39 is stuff you need.
You need to create a user CPWATCH and load the file to its disk...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg Levine
Sent: 02 February 2020 00:22
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
So its been added to the basic system regarding the 6 Pack series? I know
there's a Waterloo tape some place for the basic system and of course the
dreaded additional pack tape that we know how to install but I confess I do
not know how.
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /media/memory0/h390/*.aws.*
/media/memory0/h390/base-source.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/CPR6L0.ddr.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/ptf-616.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/starter-3330.aws.bz2
/media/memory0/h390/VMREL6.ddr.aws.bz2
For example up there is the base-source.aws.bz2 one, and then the CP tape
also packaged as an AWS one and compressed using Bzip2 and that PTF tape,
and the crazy one is marked starter-3330.aws.bz2. That's the one that's got
me a trifle peeved.
I understand making use of the two named as the system ones, as they were
restored a while back, I have kept complete decks or rather drive images.
So are the Waterloo things on those two ones, I've not restored? And how
would I go about bringing the starter one into the Bob set I use.
Of course I could go ahead and bring up next time the current but not Beta
six pack.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:10 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Gregg
Its an add-on so it is only in the "n--packs" The source is on the Waterloo tape. It may need tweaking as it was originally written on sepp/bsepp.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: 31 January 2020 01:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
It does? Then why did I get this from a DIAL CPWATCH command string
on the original one,? DIAL CPWATCH DMKDIA045E CPWATCH NOT LOGGED ON
IND from the console not the 3270 shows what it is doing, CPWATCH
from the same place does not.
Does this mean it's a missing entry on the original Bob kit? This
will perfectly be obvious to everyone except the individual reading
this out loud to a crowd of Yeti. (Including one who smokes a brand
of smoking tobacco that's older than most of us.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the
Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:00 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...>
wrote:
Folks
CPWATCH reports paging rate.
Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Polmanter
Sent: 29 January 2020 12:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Adrian,
In my experience, I doubt you are doing all that much paging.
First off, the VM/370 CP IND command doesn't show paging stats like it did in later
releases, so it is difficult to know how much you are paging.
If you are a single user VM/370 system, running 16MB real, even if
you had a 16MB user virtual machine, you would have to go some to cause much
paging beyond a very light amount.? If you had several 16MB user
machines running simultaneously with large active working sets, then
maybe you could get the paging rate up to 5-10 pages per second.
With Hercules caching, it just isn't a problem.
Regards,
Bob
|
