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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 21:00, George Shedlock <gshedlock352@...> wrote:
Is the format of the archive used by vmarc documented anywhere?? if one were to use the pack function to put a number of CMS files into an archive file and then transfer this to another system, for?example by IND$FILE, are there likely to be utilities to unpack the archive?? Likewise can one pack files into an archive on another system and unpack onto CMS with vmarc? The previous discussion may have?been the one I started - I was able to get IND$FILE working and also send files to the real punch but I think the current question is more about being able to transfer a number of files at a time, |
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
On 1/31/20 11:36 AM, adriansutherland67 wrote:
Before I go down the route of punching files etc. is there a simple tool to read and add ASCII files, at the pc end, to tapes, covering to ebcdic and so on. I have looked but can't find much although I had assumed this was key functionality.What are you trying actually to do?? Load files onto VM?? Get files off? |
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
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-----Original Message----- Probably Dave Regards, |
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
开云体育VMARC and friends can handle any type
of file format or record size and restore to same.
George Shedlock
On 1/31/2020 3:46 PM,
adriansutherland67 wrote:
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 08:34 PM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 08:34 PM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
I feel like it's deja-vu all over again :-)Apologies ... I made a hack to batch up text files for ind$file, I can extend that and use cards, but from the comments here I was wondering if there was an existing solution. That said, I get that for a binary distribution for VM/370 tape is the way to go. For source however ... |
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
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Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT I think the problem with tape dump files is either they are specific to a version of CMS or they are specific to a disk filesystem (ie EDF or non-EDF). Whichever it is, the result is that it is very easy to end up with a tape dump format tape which cannot be read by VM/370 CMS. For text files containing records that are 80 characters or less wide, the easiest approach is to use the "real" card reader and card punch. For everything else, I prefer to use VMARC which is like Zip for VM. There is a version installed on the Sixpack systems (as VMARC370). There is also a version called VMA which can be compiled and used on the host system, maybe with a little effort. Both can manipulate the same archive files in card image format which can be sent through the reader and punch. Have we already had this conversation recently? I feel like it's deja-vu all over again :-) Regards, Peter Coghlan. |
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
开云体育Yes. There are some programs to around to take CMS “tape dump” files and extract the files ? ? Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of adriansutherland67
Sent: 31 January 2020 19:58 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Writing / reading text files with tapes ? On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 07:44 PM, ScottC wrote:
Thanks Scott ... Looking at the manual, am I right in thinking these only work in the direction pc to host? |
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Re: Writing / reading text files with tapes
Have you explored OMA tapes?? Never tried them under VM, but they work under MVS. ScottC
On Friday, January 31, 2020, 11:36:31 AM PST, adriansutherland67 <adrian@...> wrote:
Before I go down the route of punching files etc. is there a simple tool to read and add ASCII files, at the pc end, to tapes, covering to ebcdic and so on. I have looked but can't find much although I had assumed this was key functionality. Sorry if this is a stupid question! |
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Writing / reading text files with tapes
Before I go down the route of punching files etc. is there a simple tool to read and add ASCII files, at the pc end, to tapes, covering to ebcdic and so on. I have looked but can't find much although I had assumed this was key functionality.
Sorry if this is a stupid question! |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Gregg
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Its an add-on so it is only in the "n--packs" The source is on the Waterloo tape. It may need tweaking as it was originally written on sepp/bsepp. Dave -----Original Message----- |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Hello!
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It does? Then why did I get this from a DIAL CPWATCH command string on the original one, DIAL CPWATCH DMKDIA045E CPWATCH NOT LOGGED ON IND from the console not the 3270 shows what it is doing, CPWATCH from the same place does not. Does this mean it's a missing entry on the original Bob kit? This will perfectly be obvious to everyone except the individual reading this out loud to a crowd of Yeti. (Including one who smokes a brand of smoking tobacco that's older than most of us.) ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:00 AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
On 1/30/20 2:33 PM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
MUSIC was not running V=R on the Amdahl. I think the 12MB may have been aClarkson went the other direction, we started with the student users on MUSIC 4.0 in 1980.? When I returned in 1985, they had all but shutdown MUSIC and moved everyone to CMS.? Then, after I left for good, they moved the students over to a Gould running UNIX. (They DID give me a degree, 10 years after I started.) In the Clarkson MUSIC era, I had ~ 4th most used program on VS/1. It moved data from VS/1 to MUSIC.? Had I gotten royalties, I could had graduated Clarkson dept free.? :-) Pity you don't have the old MUSIC tapes, I'm looking for 5.x to put the 4361. |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Le?jeu. 30 janv. 2020 à?18:44, Bob Polmanter <wably@...> a écrit?: The bane of my existence was a statistical product called SAS, which for us ran under CMS.? The mathematicians and programming staff at my site loved it, but it was nothing but a headache for me.? The thing was a pig, a pile of bloated compiled code and it sent our paging rate skyrocketing.? After a few years the SAS people did get a large portion of their product into shared segments and that helped tremendously.? But it was a CPU hog even still. Hmm, I didn't know SAS was such a pain for system programmers. I belong to the mathematicians that loved it (on MVS though) and I still use it today (on a PC).? All the best, Rene FERLAND, Montreal |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
开云体育Bob, ? You have just given me nightmares!? Did you have the SAS “C” compiler as well! Mind you we had Oracle as well but thankfully no MVS… .. but it could be worse VM was great compared to VAX/VMS on an X25 network. Those paged like mad. User types a character, page in the users DCL shell, shell decides its an “A” and needs to echo it. Queues an IO to echo it, gets paged out…. ? One of my mates worked at a bank. He really preferred All-in-one to PROFS but said there was no way he could afford enough VAX hardware to roll it out to the folks he wanted to have it… Happy Days… simpler times…. ? Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Polmanter
Sent: 30 January 2020 23:44 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation ? >I said “can fall of”! Of course in our situation , running 360 and 370 operating systems with typically a trivial workload on >hardware that out performs anything that the original software ever ran on by a factor of around 10 its unlikely that we will >experience the sort of problems small sites experienced on 4330, 4340 and 4360 mid-range boxes. |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
>I said “can fall of”! Of course in our situation , running 360 and 370 operating systems with typically a trivial workload on >hardware that out performs anything that the original software ever ran on by a factor of around 10 its unlikely that we will >experience the sort of problems small sites experienced on 4330, 4340 and 4360 mid-range boxes.
Dave, I understand. System performance became something of a career thing for me back in the day.? We did run MVS as a guest under VM/SP HPO in a production environment on a 16MB 4381, and as the system programmer I had to make it work and make it run well, or else.? We ran MVS in an 8 MB V=R space, using PMA? (Preferred Machine Assist, remember that?).? The CMS users got the other 8 MB.? We had a couple of hundred CMS users in the directory but most of the time we would have 40-60 logged on at most, and probably a lot of them were idle.? MVS always had a large batch load active, but hardly any TSO activity fortunately (for the system). The bane of my existence was a statistical product called SAS, which for us ran under CMS.? The mathematicians and programming staff at my site loved it, but it was nothing but a headache for me.? The thing was a pig, a pile of bloated compiled code and it sent our paging rate skyrocketing.? After a few years the SAS people did get a large portion of their product into shared segments and that helped tremendously.? But it was a CPU hog even still. Later still, we eventually got 32MB on the 4381 and that helped a lot.?? All good stuff. Regards, Bob |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
开云体育Bob, ? I said “can fall of”! Of course in our situation , running 360 and 370 operating systems with typically a trivial workload on hardware that out performs anything that the original software ever ran on by a factor of around 10 its unlikely that we will experience the sort of problems small sites experienced on 4330, 4340 and 4360 mid-range boxes. ? I well remember the issues IBM had on their PROFS experience days. These involved a classroom of business folks role playing to experience how PROFS could help. When the days first started, they got everyone to log on at the same time. The poor little 4361 (I think it was a 61) was not happy with this and sulked. “IND LOAD” showed horrific expansion factors. The eventual “fix” was to get the users to describe their role, and then logon, in turn. This spread the load out and 4361 was then a happy little bunny. ? So even with 20 or so the little box struggled when the all logged on at once… ? … but spread the load out and it was fine…. ? Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Polmanter
Sent: 30 January 2020 20:58 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation ?
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
Our Amdahl didn't have any assists unfortunately (and we used to get a whole lot of grief with mail coming in over the EARN link from Rutherford with reversed domain addresses...) It could move EARN/MAIL/LISTSERV traffic without missing a beat, plus a wholeThis was on an Amdahl 5870 (AP) with 64MB of real storage, VM/HPO and aThat is rather a different beast to a 4341 which typically had 4MB of bunch of people reading and writing mail in CMS (which was really XEDIT under the covers) and a few running Waterloo Script but it started to feel it when there was a classful of students doing VSFORTRAN compiles or submitting SAS jobs. The AP was added when it was decided to move the MUSIC users (142 terminals minus whatever number weren't working on any particular day) onto it. The MUSIC users were mostly using VSFORTRAN too after migrating from the less resource hungry WATFIV. Unfortunately, I never saw any tools in HPO for looking at what memory above 16MB was doing. We used to have something called Explore/VM which probably could but the license for that was cancelled just before I got to play with it :-( The previous sysprog had been unable to get CPWATCH to work on HPO and had abandoned it. MUSIC was not running V=R on the Amdahl. I think the 12MB may have been a legacy from when it previously ran V=R on a 4381 before it was moved to the Amdahl. I do recall a moan about something along the lines of I/O only being possible from the lower 16MB so if MUSIC had 16MB, it would likely be all paged in most of the time due to the large number of users on MUSIC so what would that leave the CMS users to do I/O from. Maybe he was afraid of having MUSIC performing too well in case all his CMS users got moved on to it! Should be worth a go. It really scoots along on Hercules even on an old Alpha so it should be quite happy on a P390. Regards, Peter Coghlan |
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Re: VM/370 Hercules Optimisation
开云体育On 1/30/20 1:47 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
The S/158 processor could run as a channel or CP as well.? In fact, the 3033 used 158 engines running in pure channel mode under the covers.? |
René Ferland