Am 27.08.2024 um 12:43 schrieb Dave Wade:

In any case: the compiler can be downloaded as an AWS tape from the compiler website and 
installed by VM370CE users individually; the current version there is 2023.01

but I am working on an improvment, which will be version 2024.08, probably. 
(there is this problem with sets involving negative integers, see the Moshix video ... I am working on that;
I need a completely new implementation of Pascal sets, which is AMODE 31 ready, BTW ... and it will 
support sets of up to 32.000 elements)  

Does that still work on a 370?

Yes, I hope :-)

in fact, I am doing the development on the Windows variant first, because this means creating and defining new P-Code instructions etc., then changeing the compiler so that it creates the new instructions and then implementing them in the P-Code interpreter, and then make the compiler run again, when it compiles itself using the new instructions.

After that, the P-Code to 370 translator must be changed so that the new P-Code instructions create correct 370 instructions (or library routines, when needed).

That said, there is a sort of problem with the maximum size of automatic storage for a procedure, which is 8k at the moment. A set with 32.000 elements needs 8k bytes (32.000 bits), so there is not much room for other variables in a procedure. The current sets were limited to 2000 bits, which is 256 bytes. That said: if you really use such large sets, you will run into trouble probably (when you're on the mainframe) ... but that's subject to testing :-)

The real size of a set depends on how you define it. A set of CHAR, for example, has 36 bytes. A set of 0 .. 50 (where the elements can be all numbers from 0 to 50) needs 11 bytes (will be rounded to 12).

Anyway: the old solution was plain wrong, and it was limited to AMODE 24 by design, which is not a good idea.

Cheers,

Bernd

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 4:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Workshop Tapes - was Re: Examine RDR Files

Dave Wade wrote:

Fish wrote:

[...]

Does that sound like something that would make Hercules's
vmfplc2 utility a little easier to use?

Yes

Great! I'll see what I can do!


[...]

Yes, I realize not being able to maintain position between commands
creates a design challenge...

Indeed!


[...]

One last wish. Would it be possible to support tapes written using
BLOCKTAP.

I can't say. I would need to know about the BLOKTAP format first.

We have quite a few tapes written using this....
.. the source is on here...

Hmmm... You mean "BLOCKTAP"?!

(Doh!) Silly me! You wrote "BLOKTAP" in one of your earlier emails, which I had
never heard of before. I also did a "find" on all of my emails from this group for
"bloktap" and "blocktap" and apparently there have been many emails
containing both words which I'm presuming were all referring to the same thing:
Steven Howes's BLOCKTAP command:

*

Yes? Correct?

If so, then my answer changes to "probably". I haven't read through the entire
thing yet (nor bothered to study the BLOCKTAP command's actual source code
yet), but if all it is, is the same thing as the existing TAPE format but using 32K
block sizes instead, then I have to say it certainly sounds simple enough.

So yeah, I think the chances are good that I'll be able to add support for that
tape format.

But let me make those other changes first. They take priority. Once they're
working properly, then I'll try to add support for BLOCKTAP format.

And as always, I can't say how long it'll take me to make these changes either.
My main focus right now is with helping to get 4.8 out the door. It takes priority
right now. But when I find myself with a bit of free time here and there I'll
certainly work on this change for you.

Cool?

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

I recently posted on asking these questions about how I should submit my VM updates for inclusion in a future CE "release":

1. Is there a master list of assigned update numbers? How do I figure out the "###" part of the update name"HRC###DK"????
2. Is there a preferred way to package the files in an update? On my system, I keep all the files together in a .txt file in CMS READCARD format. How do the keepers of the CE releases prefer to receive proposed updates?
3. What sort of consensus/approval/voting process do I need to go through to share my stuff?

Dave Wade responded that, since there really aren't any current processes, it might be a good idea to take the discussion to the wider group.

?

So, how do we go about creating some sort of guidance/process for enhancing and maintaining future releases of VM370CE? I guess, first of all, is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea? If so, then we probably could use at least a loose sort of "product management" strategy.

?

Thoughts??

?

cheers,

William Denton

_._,_._,_

?

For non-account holders guest access for all systems is available with new [permanent] account requests available to our supporting Bootstrap members. Support for the SDF Vintage Systems program can be made through under the 'donate' link.

?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
groups.io
Sent: 26 August 2024 20:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Workshop Tapes - was Re: Examine RDR Files

Dave Wade wrote:

[...]

I actually find your VMFPLC2 a tad un-helpful on these tapes.

On VM you can do a "VMFPLC2 SCAN" which lists the contents of the
first physical file, so up to the first tape mark.

This only has the "ABSTRACT LISTING" so then a "VMFPLC2 REW"
and a "VMFPLC2 LOAD" to get the contents.

You can then read that, and use the FSF, SCAN, REW and LOAD to
position the tape, check the contents of that physical file and load
it....

On Windows you do a SCAN and you get all the tape, about 300 files,
then you need to build a control file to get the ones you want.

I think it would be good to have options to skip so many tape marks
and only list so many physical files..

.. but that’s just me...

Touché. :)

So Hercules's SCAN always lists the contents of the *entire* tape, which you'd
rather it not do?

You'd rather have the ability to limit the SCAN function to
only ONE specific physical (tapemark delimited) file? Yes?

And you'd also rather not have to manually build the ctlfile in order to LOAD
only the specific file(s) you want? Yes?

How about this: make the <ctlfile> an optional argument for the SCAN
function, which, when specified, specifies the name of the <ctlfile> that you
want SCAN to automatically *create* for you instead? (i.e. when specified, the
tape's contents would not be shown, but rather would simply be written to
the specified output file instead.

Then to easily LOAD only the file(s) you want, you could simply edit that file
and either delete (or comment out) all of the file(s) you *didn't* want, and
then specify that <ctlfile> in your LOAD command.

Does that sound like something that would make Hercules's vmfplc2 utility a
little easier to use?

--------------------
Just as an explanation, Herc's vmfplc2 will never be as easy to use as VM's, due
to the need for a <ctlfile> due to the difference in the processing hosts. VM's
VMFPLC2 tool's filesystem is quite different from your Hercules host's, as well
as its data format too (EBCDIC vs. ASCII) and the fact that on VM, it's able to
physically position the physical input tape and it will stay there until the next
command is issued, whereas on your Hercules host, each time a new
command is issued, the input tape always starts out positioned at loadpoint
each time (not to mention the need to be able to "translate" a CMS filename
to/from a Linux/Windows host filename for the DUMP and LOAD functions).
Thus the need for a <ctlfile>.

Hopefully my proposed change will make creating/using <ctlfile>'s a little bit
easier.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, Dave. Thanks!

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

?

1. Is there a master list of assigned update numbers? How do I figure out the "###" part of the update name"HRC###DK"????
2. Is there a preferred way to package the files in an update? On my system, I keep all the files together in a .txt file in CMS READCARD format. How do the keepers of the CE releases prefer to receive proposed updates?
3. What sort of consensus/approval/voting process do I need to go through to share my stuff?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2024 2:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Workshop Tapes - was Re: Examine RDR Files

Dave Wade wrote:

I think the old ones are in VMFPLC2 format, (might be TAPE), mount the
tape on VM, do a VMFPLC2 LOAD and there is an ABSTRACT LISTING file
showing the content.

Unless you already know exactly what files are on the tape, I would not
recommend doing that. The "LOAD" function reads the files from the tape and
actually loads them onto your minidisk. Instead, I would do a "SCAN", which
reads the tape and just lists the files that are on the tape but does not actually
load them.

Also, if you were not aware, Hercules comes with a vmfplc2 utility too (*),
which, while completely different from VM's VMFPLC2 (or TAPE) commands, has
similar functionality but is designed as a simple Linux or Windows host
command-line command instead, that allows you to examine (SCAN) an existing
.aws/.het VMFPLC2/TAPE format tape file, or create such a tape from host files
(DUMP function), or LOAD files from such a tape onto your host system.
Basically it provides the same basic functionality as VM's command, but is
designed to be run your host as a Hercules offline utility.

Documentation for how to use it is in our README.VMFPLC2.md file:

*
390/hyperion/blob/master/readme/README.VMFPLC2.md

(You might consider installing some type of "markdown viewer" browser
plugin/extension so our README files are properly formatted/displayed in your
browser.)

So I would personally do a Hercules vmfplc2.exe SCAN function, and then, is
there is a file on the tape called "ABSTRACT LISTING", then I would run the utility
again and LOAD that file onto your Windows/Linux host and examine (view) it
there. Then you'll know exactly what file(s) you'll want to LOAD onto your
VM/CE system.

But then maybe that's just me. :)