Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
Timothy, You might want to look at the VM/CMS section of . It does talk about the options to get past "MORE" Chris -- <cjar1950@...> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 18 May 2023 08:48:11 -0400 "Timothy Stark" <fsword007@...> wrote: Folks,
I installed VM370/CE on my computer and was able log into system on Hercules
emulator.
I learned many things because it provides HELP facility with long list of
commands. I have a few questions here.
How do I get to continue at "MORE." displayed? What key do I have to press
to continue on my Vista TN3270 terminal app?
How did I create minidisk? How do I add user accounts?
I did learned how to use ACCESS and XLIST with HELP facility command.
I think that they need to provide getting started guide manual comes with
VM370 CE package. Also, I can't find any "getting started" manuals on
VM370.org, etc.
Look at MVS TK4- package comes with getting started manual.
Thanks,
Tim
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 07:48 AM, Timothy Stark wrote:
How did I create minidisk? How do I add user accounts?
I placed a file in this discussion group's Files area, (see earlier notice about USER DIRECT HELP). Read it, and if you have questions, feel free to ask me here, or privately. ?... Mark S.
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 07:48 AM, Timothy Stark wrote:
I installed VM370/CE on my computer and was able log into system on Hercules emulator.
It would help us, to help you, if we knew what OS you were running Hercules on, and what 3270 terminal emulator you are using. ?... Mark S.
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Beer
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 8:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are
getting started manuals?!
Usually "MORE.." just indicates that there is more information to be displayed,
so you can either press
ENTER: to put the terminal into a "HOLD" state Or press CLEAR to clear the
screen and go to the next page.
On most terminals PA1 would bring you to the underlying CP.
Most terminal emulators are very flexible in assigning keys.
The CMS Terminal Users Guide describes that nicely.
"The CLEAR key performs the same function as the PA2 key." It does not in VM/370. "Clear" clears the entire screen, "PA2" only clears the output area. Anything typed in the input area is untouched... Current version:
40.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc0302a.nsf/pages/zVMV7R2sc246266/$file/
dmsb3_v7r2.pdf Probably not useful on VM/370
Best regards
Mike
Dave
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 6:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Mount/unmount tapes
Dave Wade wrote:
Tim,
There is no way for a user to allocate a tape as via JCL on MVS. Typo. That should of course be "VM", not MVS. Actually I meant "as on MVS" but its much the same
Typically, sites used to use the MSG command to ask the operator who
would:-
1. Mount the tape = Hercules devinit command 2. Attach it to the
requesting user, e.g. "ATT 580 CMSUSER 181"
3. Send a message back to say its done. "MSG CMSUSER YOUR TAPE IS READY"
Of course as you are both user and operator you can just mount the
tape and attach it to your user-id.
You can unmount a tape attached to your user by "TAPE RUN" Or "DETACH 181" from your userid.
Or "DETACH 181 (LEAVE" to not unload it.
These remove the drive from the user, "TAPR RUN" unmounts the tape but leaves the drive attached to the user. The op can then mount a new tape. Its all very different from MVS... --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
Dave
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
Usually "MORE.." just indicates that there is more information to be displayed, so you can either press
ENTER: to put the terminal into a "HOLD" state
Or press
CLEAR to clear the screen and go to the next page.
On most terminals PA1 would bring you to the underlying CP.
Most terminal emulators are very flexible in assigning keys.
The CMS Terminal Users Guide describes that nicely.
"The CLEAR key performs the same function as the PA2 key."
Current version:
Best regards
Mike
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 21:08 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [h390-vm] vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?! Dave Wade wrote: Timothy Stark wrote: [...] How do I get to continue at "MORE." displayed? What key do I have
to press to continue on my Vista TN3270 terminal app? You press whatever it mapped to "PA2". Often "Page Down"
but can be Alt+F2 or others
I'm not sure what the default is, but I use Vista TN3270 too, and for me, it's mapped to the Page Up key. Page Down is PA1. Vista's user interface is very nice regarding keyboard mapping (Options --> Keyboard edit). To discover (query) which keyboard key is mapped to a particular action, simply select the Action (left side of dialog, where the "Action", "Edit", "Char", "Oper" and "Macro" tabs are), and click the "Find" button. Vista will then highlight the keyboard key that that action is currently assigned to (and show you the mapping in the center part of the dialog). If Vista doesn't highlight and key, then it's not assigned. To assign a specific keyboard key to an action, you basically do the opposite: you click the keyboard key you want to assign, and Vista shows you (again, in the center part of the dialog) what that particular keyboard key is mapped to. To change it to something else, select the new action on the left side ("Action" tab), and then click the appropriate button in the middle part of the dialog: "Normal", "Shift", "Ctl" or "Alt". Vista comes with a comprehensive Help file that explains how to use the product. I'm guessing however that you already know how to use Vista, but simply didn't know what keystroke that VM370/CE was expecting the user to press on their terminal. Right? As Dave said, it's usually the PA2 key (which, as I said, on my Vista is the Page Up key), although the Clear Screen key also works (which on my Vista is mapped to the Pause/Break key). Clear as mud, right? Welcome to VM! :) -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below. ? IIRC e.g. it went like this
TAG DEV ¡.
SP CON START ¡ SP CON CLOSE ? However, I did not use this in an HERC environment. ? The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable. A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable. ? Best regards Mike ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ren¨¦ Ferland
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE? On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote: I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.?
Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course, that assumes we have the necessary code.
Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines:
1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system;
2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and get back the output on VM;
3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS.
I was able to do 3) using the RJE Windows client of C.E. Owen.
I managed to get 2) almost working: I can connect VM/370 CE to MVS TK4- and submit the job, but when JES2 sends the output back, it jams the line, like the file is too big and fills a buffer, or the speed of transfer is too high, or God knows what (diagnosis of a know nothing like me :-)).
That confirms what you said about non-programmable terminal (NPT) and spool multi-leaving (SML) lines.
I was never able to do 1) which, according to you, is normal for the version of RSCS we have.
I wish I could fix 2), but I don't have the knowledge for that (neither on Hercules or VM). Reproducing the "bug" is already a problem by itself, which is why I never mentioned it here before.
Cheers,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Yep. It went through this time. Thanks Gregg.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Topic locked?!
Importance: High
Hello!
You're right Fish the thread was locked. It was unlocked. Try it now.
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became
heroes."
Princess Leia of Alderaan Senator
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
Dave Wade wrote: Timothy Stark wrote: [...] How do I get to continue at "MORE." displayed? What key
do I have to press to continue on my Vista TN3270 terminal
app? You press whatever it mapped to "PA2". Often "Page Down"
but can be Alt+F2 or others
I'm not sure what the default is, but I use Vista TN3270 too, and for me, it's mapped to the Page Up key. Page Down is PA1. Vista's user interface is very nice regarding keyboard mapping (Options --> Keyboard edit). To discover (query) which keyboard key is mapped to a particular action, simply select the Action (left side of dialog, where the "Action", "Edit", "Char", "Oper" and "Macro" tabs are), and click the "Find" button. Vista will then highlight the keyboard key that that action is currently assigned to (and show you the mapping in the center part of the dialog). If Vista doesn't highlight and key, then it's not assigned. To assign a specific keyboard key to an action, you basically do the opposite: you click the keyboard key you want to assign, and Vista shows you (again, in the center part of the dialog) what that particular keyboard key is mapped to. To change it to something else, select the new action on the left side ("Action" tab), and then click the appropriate button in the middle part of the dialog: "Normal", "Shift", "Ctl" or "Alt". Vista comes with a comprehensive Help file that explains how to use the product. I'm guessing however that you already know how to use Vista, but simply didn't know what keystroke that VM370/CE was expecting the user to press on their terminal. Right? As Dave said, it's usually the PA2 key (which, as I said, on my Vista is the Page Up key), although the Clear Screen key also works (which on my Vista is mapped to the Pause/Break key). Clear as mud, right? Welcome to VM! :) -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote:
I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.?
Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course, that assumes we have the necessary code. Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines: 1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system; 2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and get back the output on VM; 3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS. I was able to do 3) using the RJE Windows client of C.E. Owen. I managed to get 2) almost working: I can connect VM/370 CE to MVS TK4- and submit the job, but when JES2 sends the output back, it jams the line, like the file is too big and fills a buffer, or the speed of transfer is too high, or God knows what (diagnosis of a know nothing like me :-)). That confirms what you said about non-programmable terminal (NPT) and spool multi-leaving (SML) lines. I was never able to do 1) which, according to you, is normal for the version of RSCS we have. I wish I could fix 2), but I don't have the knowledge for that (neither on Hercules or VM). Reproducing the "bug" is already a problem by itself, which is why I never mentioned it here before. Cheers, Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 01:21 PM, Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:
It is not exactly a getting started manual, but I found it very much worth reading.
Another "tutorial" can be found at: ?... Mark S.
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 05:48 AM, Timothy Stark wrote:
I think that they need to provide getting started guide manual comes with VM370 CE package.? Also, I can¡¯t find any ¡°getting started¡± manuals on VM370.org, etc.
Take a look at this manual: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/370/VM_370/Release_6/GC20-1819-2_IBM_Virtual_Machine_Facility_370_CMS_Users_Guide_Rel_6_PLC_17_Apr81.pdf It is not exactly a getting started manual, but I found it very much worth reading. Cheers, Rene FERLAND, Montreal P.S. -- Maybe you already know but, after the IPL of VM/370 CE, don't forget to enter /start at the Hercules console, to start your "real" unit record devices. Otherwise, you won't get anything printed or punched.
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Hello!
You're right Fish the thread was locked. It was unlocked. Try it now.
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became
heroes."
Princess Leia of Alderaan Senator
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 1:14 PM To: H390-VM (grouos.io) < [email protected]> Subject: [h390-vm] Topic locked?! I just tried to reply to Timothy Stark's "vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions"... post, and received a notification from Groups.IO: "500 This topic has been locked by the moderators and can no longer be posted to." (WTF?!) I sure hope this was an accident! Can someone unlock this thread please? Or explain why it is locked if not? Thanks! -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... "And this one was left behind by the Imperial Army when they were forced out of Fortus Prime during the Rebellion."
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I just tried to reply to Timothy Stark's "vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions"... post, and received a notification from Groups.IO:
"500 This topic has been locked by the moderators and can no longer be posted to."
(WTF?!)
I sure hope this was an accident! Can someone unlock this thread please? Or explain why it is locked if not?
Thanks!
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Dave Wade wrote: Tim,
There is no way for a user to allocate a tape as via JCL on MVS. Typo. That should of course be "VM", not MVS. Typically, sites used to use the MSG command to ask the operator
who would:-
1. Mount the tape = Hercules devinit command
2. Attach it to the requesting user, e.g. "ATT 580 CMSUSER 181"
3. Send a message back to say its done. "MSG CMSUSER YOUR TAPE IS READY"
Of course as you are both user and operator you can just mount
the tape and attach it to your user-id.
You can unmount a tape attached to your user by "TAPE RUN" Or "DETACH 181" from your userid. Or "DETACH 181 (LEAVE" to not unload it. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Hi Alejandro,
The VM/370 RSCS supports controlling?non-programable?terminals, and driving HASP workstations. It never had support for VM to VM communications.?
I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.?
The best description of the VM/370 version of RSCS is in:
Bob Bolch
Hi.
Thank you very much for your replies!
I think I have initiated the contact with the right person, but, out of curiosity, I would really like to know more about the RSCS that do we actually have in VM370 CE... because, well... there's something here to play with :-)
I've digged and researched in those old VM370 IBM books, and, toghether with RSCS MEMO, I managed to rebuild the RSCS Nucleus on a pair on hercules instances and make them 'connect' usin a 2703 BSC link... however, altough most of what I've read about RSCS seem to somehow apply here, I see a few but quite noticeable differences... For instance, I've tested a START command with params read from 20 years old forum post, that I don't find anywhere on the books! or, likewise, I don't find any trace of an RSCS Directory file under CE RSCS VMs... so I've the feeling I'm missing something.
While I realize NJE represent a huge leap for a 'free' RSCS, I'd be very happy if I could assemble a testing mockup/lab? made of VM instances linked by 'legacy' means (BSC lines, etc) ... but I would like to know why do RSCS in VM CE appears to be somehow different? Why no directory? Where does PARAM HASP | MASTER modes come from? Does routing work?
Thank you!
Cheers.
??
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File /USER DIRECT HELP/Updating_USER_DIRECT.txt uploaded
#file-notice
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Mark A. Stevens <marXtevens@...>
Description:
Text file with directions.
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Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Hi.
Thank you very much for your replies!
I think I have initiated the contact with the right person, but, out of curiosity, I would really like to know more about the RSCS that do we actually have in VM370 CE... because, well... there's something here to play with :-)
I've digged and researched in those old VM370 IBM books, and, toghether with RSCS MEMO, I managed to rebuild the RSCS Nucleus on a pair on hercules instances and make them 'connect' usin a 2703 BSC link... however, altough most of what I've read about RSCS seem to somehow apply here, I see a few but quite noticeable differences... For instance, I've tested a START command with params read from 20 years old forum post, that I don't find anywhere on the books! or, likewise, I don't find any trace of an RSCS Directory file under CE RSCS VMs... so I've the feeling I'm missing something.
While I realize NJE represent a huge leap for a 'free' RSCS, I'd be very happy if I could assemble a testing mockup/lab? made of VM instances linked by 'legacy' means (BSC lines, etc) ... but I would like to know why do RSCS in VM CE appears to be somehow different? Why no directory? Where does PARAM HASP | MASTER modes come from? Does routing work?
Thank you!
Cheers.
??
|
Tim, There is no way for a user to allocate a tape as via JCL on MVS. Typically, sites used to use the MSG command to ask the operator who would:- ? 1. Mount the tape = Hercules devinit command 2. Attach it to the requesting user, e.g. ¡°ATT 580 CMSUSER 181¡± 3. Send a message back to say its done¡ ¡°MSG CMSUSER YOUR TAPE IS READY¡± ? Of course as you are both user and operator you can just mount the tape and attach it to your user-id.? You can unmount a tape attached to your user by ¡°TAPE RUN¡± You can then use the Hercules console to mount another tape, or do ¡°DET 181¡± to give the drive back to the system ? Dave ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Timothy Stark
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 2:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [h390-vm] Mount/unmount tapes? Folks, ? Thanks for replies.?? I forget to ask more one question. ? How do I mount and unmount tapes?? How to request operator to mount tape for me? ? Also I am learning how to use TAPE and VMFPLC2 commands. ? Thanks again, Tim
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Folks, ? Thanks for replies.?? I forget to ask more one question. ? How do I mount and unmount tapes?? How to request operator to mount tape for me? ? Also I am learning how to use TAPE and VMFPLC2 commands. ? Thanks again, Tim
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Mark A. Stevens
Ren¨¦ Ferland