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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
YES !!!
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While I've been using more of a liquid form of the stuff, I've been doing the same since the early '70's Man, does the method work well! What proved it to me was a very long shelved 0-4-2t Athearn steamer bought at a swap meet that has a zamak electrical path. With no other changes to the electrical path, the original mechanism runs like a dream using a similar electronic liquid on the bare zamak. Before it would only run for a 1/4 turn of the driver. It made me a believer. Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:50 AM, "jjleeds40" <jjleeds@...> wrote:
I agree, it is probably the tender trucks. I reworked a Mantua goat that I assembled 30 yrs. ago. Put in a can motor, flywheel NWSL idler gear box & a decoder....Wouldn't run worth a darn. After sitting on the shelf for a couple of years I discovered a conductive grease ( NO-OX-ID A SPECIAL from Sanchem Inc. Disassembled the trucks, polished them, put a SMALL dab of grease on axle ends & all contact points. It ran like a dream & still does after over a year. You can also use this product on the tracks...."A little Dab Will Do Ya" |
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
I agree, it is probably the tender trucks. I reworked a Mantua goat that I assembled 30 yrs. ago. Put in a can motor, flywheel NWSL idler gear box & a decoder....Wouldn't run worth a darn. After sitting on the shelf for a couple of years I discovered a conductive grease ( NO-OX-ID A SPECIAL from Sanchem Inc. Disassembled the trucks, polished them, put a SMALL dab of grease on axle ends & all contact points. It ran like a dream & still does after over a year. You can also use this product on the tracks...."A little Dab Will Do Ya"
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I got the 2 oz. tub that will last me 3 or 4 lifetimes. --- In yardbirdtrains@..., Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Nathan Rich
As long as you can completely isolate the motor from the frame (use a nylon screw and some electrical tape) and can sort out the left rail/right rail thing, you should be able to.
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Nathan Rich
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:26 PM, cwvpost1 <pgkdave@...> wrote: I just acquired a Limited Edition Mantua Classic 4-4-2 Atlantic that was still New In the Box. ?It is over 20 Years Old. ?When I tried to ?Run it on a test track, it ran erratic starting and stopping and shorting out. |
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks for the info. ?I would never have guessed a 4-4-0 would have been built with a Walschaerts valve gear. ?I just learned something today. ?That makes it a good day right? Regards,? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: ebtnut@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 15:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
Also, here's a pic of one of the three of the very last 4-4-0's built for the US by Baldwin in 1927:? -----Original Message----- From: ebtnut To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
That 4-4-0 was built by Baldwin in 1919 for the Red River and Gulf RR,?close to being?one of the last 4-4-0's built in the US.? The loco ran for a number of years around Stone Mountain along with a similar loco, sort of recreating the "Great Locomotive Chase".?
DM ? -----Original Message-----
From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 1:38 pm Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
I may get a little time to work on the layout this weekend, but Saturday afternoon, we go to my daughter's house. ?Our granddaughter is graduating high school and we have a party. ?Last weekend, we went to Atlanta for a family visit, but I did get a few hours off and went to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth. ?I took lots of photos, including some very up close and personal photos of the B-End details of a couple hoppers. ?they had a 4-4-0 there with PISTON rod valves and what looked like Walschaert valve gear. ?the darnedest thing I ever did see. ?I expected slide valves and no external valve gear for a 4-4-0. ?I must assume this was retrofitted by a previous owner and did not come from the factory this way.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: long95209@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ? Other that hiding inside ? I'll be trying to cope with the heat [108-110] this weekend ? Anyone else ?? Henry H.
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
Also, here's a pic of one of the three of the very last 4-4-0's built for the US by Baldwin in 1927:?
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-----Original Message----- From: ebtnut To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
That 4-4-0 was built by Baldwin in 1919 for the Red River and Gulf RR,?close to being?one of the last 4-4-0's built in the US.? The loco ran for a number of years around Stone Mountain along with a similar loco, sort of recreating the "Great Locomotive Chase".?
DM ? -----Original Message-----
From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 1:38 pm Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
I may get a little time to work on the layout this weekend, but Saturday afternoon, we go to my daughter's house. ?Our granddaughter is graduating high school and we have a party. ?Last weekend, we went to Atlanta for a family visit, but I did get a few hours off and went to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth. ?I took lots of photos, including some very up close and personal photos of the B-End details of a couple hoppers. ?they had a 4-4-0 there with PISTON rod valves and what looked like Walschaert valve gear. ?the darnedest thing I ever did see. ?I expected slide valves and no external valve gear for a 4-4-0. ?I must assume this was retrofitted by a previous owner and did not come from the factory this way.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: long95209@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ? Other that hiding inside ? I'll be trying to cope with the heat [108-110] this weekend ? Anyone else ?? Henry H.
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
That 4-4-0 was built by Baldwin in 1919 for the Red River and Gulf RR,?close to being?one of the last 4-4-0's built in the US.? The loco ran for a number of years around Stone Mountain along with a similar loco, sort of recreating the "Great Locomotive Chase".?
DM ? -----Original Message----- From: Victor Bitleris To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 1:38 pm Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
I may get a little time to work on the layout this weekend, but Saturday afternoon, we go to my daughter's house. ?Our granddaughter is graduating high school and we have a party. ?Last weekend, we went to Atlanta for a family visit, but I did get a few hours off and went to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth. ?I took lots of photos, including some very up close and personal photos of the B-End details of a couple hoppers. ?they had a 4-4-0 there with PISTON rod valves and what looked like Walschaert valve gear. ?the darnedest thing I ever did see. ?I expected slide valves and no external valve gear for a 4-4-0. ?I must assume this was retrofitted by a previous owner and did not come from the factory this way.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: long95209@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ? Other that hiding inside ? I'll be trying to cope with the heat [108-110] this weekend ? Anyone else ?? Henry H.
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kemtron skeleton log car instructions
I'm getting parts for 6 kemtron skeleton log cars.The main parts are there,I don't know if it came with brake levers etc,missing some trucks.This is coming from same person who is selling trains due to health reasons that I got locos from.
I.m hoping to find instructions to build and to identify any missing parts so he can give me if he runs across them. Alan |
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
Tom Knowles
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýChuck!
Leave the compressor inside, supplies it with dry air, then all you have worry about is blushing...or is that what the wife objects to, the sound of the compressor as well as the fumes? Been absolutely gorgeous here, if a bit rainy here today. sorry to miss you the other day.... BTW, its been real nice to read all the informed notes about K4's and other big steam lately. Thanks! Tom Knowles NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...On 6/5/2013 11:46 AM, lnnrr wrote: ? |
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI may get a little time to work on the layout this weekend, but Saturday afternoon, we go to my daughter's house. ?Our granddaughter is graduating high school and we have a party. ?Last weekend, we went to Atlanta for a family visit, but I did get a few hours off and went to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth. ?I took lots of photos, including some very up close and personal photos of the B-End details of a couple hoppers. ?they had a 4-4-0 there with PISTON rod valves and what looked like Walschaert valve gear. ?the darnedest thing I ever did see. ?I expected slide valves and no external valve gear for a 4-4-0. ?I must assume this was retrofitted by a previous owner and did not come from the factory this way. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: long95209@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
Other that hiding inside ? I'll be trying to cope with the heat [108-110] this weekend ? Anyone else ?? Henry H.
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
Tom Knowles
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWhew! At least the temps here are
seasonably cool, and dryer than usual. I have been busy with the
RR Museum of course, and the first month was slow compared to
other years. I finished lettering both sides of our bay window
caboose in the prototype style, and she looks great! I am in
process of obtaining weather stripping for our 44 tonner to close
in the cab again and re-install the instruments/ gauges. We will
find some batteries to replace the bad ones, acquire a pair of
horns and install the bell for exercising the engine later this
year. Its been two years since I fired up the D-17000 Diesels in
her. At that time it had been 20 years and the rear engine started
immediately! Front engine took a little more work, but we got 'em
both running. Now what we need is more track.....
Model wise, I have been adding Tsunami to units as I have funding and collecting Pennsy stuff for display. I had a Penn Line E6 that I had never run and found it flat would not run on our layout, though she ran fine upside-down on the bench. Much to my surprise, she ran (badly) backwards! Previous owner/builder had the drivers flopped. Somehow, I missed that the insulated side was on the engineer's side.? It took three or four hours of careful rebuilding and a little modification to frame, trailing truck, pilot truck motion, tender connections, and drawbar, etc to get her to negotiate the RR here. Had a full string of Pennsy cars behind her, too and she pulled the 3% out of Sherwood, TN with five of them. I suspect this engine had never pulled a train. She runs well, now and she needs to be lettered! I don't think I'll put 460 on her though. My friend in nearby Winchester is building the definitive "Cowan Pusher District" in HO in a large upstairs room. I have provided him with a workable track plan that emulated the features and operation the District in about 1950. Already recognizable as the District to those familiar, its gonna be a great model RR. A month ago we ran a test train for the first time on the mainline, then suddenly in her sleep his wife passed away. She had a short bout with dementia and left this life early. He is doing okay, as it was a blessing to both of them. We resumed a "regrouping" yesterday. If this were Lake Woebegone, I'd sign off differently. But it's not so see 'ya later Tom Knowles On 6/5/2013 11:12 AM, Henry wrote: ? |
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Ray, Nice to see you here. ?I was wondering what happened to 2Guyz and sum trains. ?I guess it disappeared, but at least we still have you with us.  Regards,? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: raymarinaccio@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 10:10:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
--- On Wed, 6/5/13, Henry <long95209@...> wrote:
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýExcellent suggestions Tom. ?I have gotten used to folks referring to electrical issues as shorts and I agree, educating on this is a good thing. ?While shorts may occur, they are very, very rare in my experience. ?Usually it is like you said, intermittent contact issues, ie. dirty track, wipers or wheels. I will add one thing about the DCC ability. ?Yes, Dan's wormfly can motor setups are the best way to go. ?But, if one wishes to keep the open frame motor, then it can successfully and easily be upgraded by using neodymium magnets. ?In fact John Brazaitis has been re-fitting some of these old Mantua motors with the newer magnets and the end up with very good slow speed characteristics and pull much less current at normal use, so become very good DCC motors. ?You do need to isolate these from the frame tho, whereas Dan Bush's wormfly motors are already isolated. ?It mostly depends on how much you wish to spend. ?John has been selling his modified motors on ebay at very reasonable prices. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: tomk@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:14:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2 ? Forgive me if I am too simplistic here:
It is a common thing for non- electronically inclined people to
say "shorted out" when an electrical item "does not work", but
this misnomer confuses trouble shooting. First, please understand
the difference between "shorting out" and "having intermittent
contact". My guess is that the problem is the latter, common with
models that have never been run. But, if the the real symptom is
drawing lots of current ---dimming of the indicator light (if you
have one) or a heavy "buzzing sound" when the power is applied on
your power supply, then it is shorting out. The trouble shooting
steps and fixing is different for each symptom.
If the unit is indeed new in the box and for real shorted out, what I would look for first is a tender truck that is installed backwards (turned 180*). All four insulated wheels of the tender should be on the engineer's side.? A stuck motor or mechanism can look like a short, and this sometimes happens. Applying power and "helping" the mechanism by hand at first can break things free if they are temporarily stuck. When the motor begins to run, the excessive current that looks like a short will go away. It is always a good idea to properly re-lubricate any machinery that has been inactive for 20 years. That means a sparing drop of medium weight oil on the moving parts, such as the motor bearings, worm and pinion, axle bearings and side rods at their pins. Model steam engines for the most part use the side rods to transmit running forces to the non-geared drive wheels, so these are crucial for good operation and longevity to be lubricated. A stuck mechanism is possible if the side rods and valve gear have been damaged or out of place. I don't remember if the Lindberg engine model has valve gear, but the real #460 did. Since steam has been gone from the scene for so long, more and more people find the side rods and valve gear to be a total mystery. They must be set right or the engine will at best not run right, and at worst be stuck, thus locking the motor and looking like a short electrically. If you do all the suggestions here and have no success, shoot a good, close picture of both sides of the engine and post them to us to see of they rods are set right. Many of us here on Yardbirds understand both the real thing and model representations of them. The best test for a newly running engine is to run it on the bench (after careful lubrication) before ever putting it on the track, just to loosen it up a bit. This is done by supporting the engine and tender in some sort of cradle upside down. Power from the power pack is applied to the engine and tender and this eliminates the probable contact problems at the wheels. One wire to the engine frame somewhere and the other to the tender, run the engine both ways for a few minute at medium speed. Then, while running lightly polish the drive wheel surface with 1000 grit emery paper to polish the tire's running surfaces. Polishing the metal surfaces of the tender truck wheels is more tedious as you must polish each wheel by hand. Get 'em good and shiny and the engine should run just fine on clean track. If the engine will not run in this manner and there was sparking of the wires where they contacted to engine or tender frame, then you do indeed have a short. Clean track is also important, a similar polishing of the rail heads helps a lot too. The engine must first run well on DC, though the standard motor used is not the best for DCC operation. It can be adapted though, if you are willing to modify the motor a little. Our mentor and sponsor Dan at Yardbird Trains offers a very nice upgrade motor and flywheel kit that can solve a lot of the problems Mantua and Tyco engines have out of the box and for easier conversion to DCC. Try the above steps and get back to us, hope this helps. Tom Knowles NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...On 3/21/2013 4:26 PM, cwvpost1 wrote: ? |
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Tom Knowles
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýForgive me if I am too simplistic here:
It is a common thing for non- electronically inclined people to
say "shorted out" when an electrical item "does not work", but
this misnomer confuses trouble shooting. First, please understand
the difference between "shorting out" and "having intermittent
contact". My guess is that the problem is the latter, common with
models that have never been run. But, if the the real symptom is
drawing lots of current ---dimming of the indicator light (if you
have one) or a heavy "buzzing sound" when the power is applied on
your power supply, then it is shorting out. The trouble shooting
steps and fixing is different for each symptom.
If the unit is indeed new in the box and for real shorted out, what I would look for first is a tender truck that is installed backwards (turned 180*). All four insulated wheels of the tender should be on the engineer's side.? A stuck motor or mechanism can look like a short, and this sometimes happens. Applying power and "helping" the mechanism by hand at first can break things free if they are temporarily stuck. When the motor begins to run, the excessive current that looks like a short will go away. It is always a good idea to properly re-lubricate any machinery that has been inactive for 20 years. That means a sparing drop of medium weight oil on the moving parts, such as the motor bearings, worm and pinion, axle bearings and side rods at their pins. Model steam engines for the most part use the side rods to transmit running forces to the non-geared drive wheels, so these are crucial for good operation and longevity to be lubricated. A stuck mechanism is possible if the side rods and valve gear have been damaged or out of place. I don't remember if the Lindberg engine model has valve gear, but the real #460 did. Since steam has been gone from the scene for so long, more and more people find the side rods and valve gear to be a total mystery. They must be set right or the engine will at best not run right, and at worst be stuck, thus locking the motor and looking like a short electrically. If you do all the suggestions here and have no success, shoot a good, close picture of both sides of the engine and post them to us to see of they rods are set right. Many of us here on Yardbirds understand both the real thing and model representations of them. The best test for a newly running engine is to run it on the bench (after careful lubrication) before ever putting it on the track, just to loosen it up a bit. This is done by supporting the engine and tender in some sort of cradle upside down. Power from the power pack is applied to the engine and tender and this eliminates the probable contact problems at the wheels. One wire to the engine frame somewhere and the other to the tender, run the engine both ways for a few minute at medium speed. Then, while running lightly polish the drive wheel surface with 1000 grit emery paper to polish the tire's running surfaces. Polishing the metal surfaces of the tender truck wheels is more tedious as you must polish each wheel by hand. Get 'em good and shiny and the engine should run just fine on clean track. If the engine will not run in this manner and there was sparking of the wires where they contacted to engine or tender frame, then you do indeed have a short. Clean track is also important, a similar polishing of the rail heads helps a lot too. The engine must first run well on DC, though the standard motor used is not the best for DCC operation. It can be adapted though, if you are willing to modify the motor a little. Our mentor and sponsor Dan at Yardbird Trains offers a very nice upgrade motor and flywheel kit that can solve a lot of the problems Mantua and Tyco engines have out of the box and for easier conversion to DCC. Try the above steps and get back to us, hope this helps. Tom Knowles NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...On 3/21/2013 4:26 PM, cwvpost1 wrote: ? |
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
--- On Wed, 6/5/13, Henry wrote:
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
Roger Huber
--- On Wed, 6/5/13, Jim Reynolds wrote:
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
lnnrr
Where is that, Henry? Death Valley? I knew California was different
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but I had no idea that the weekend came on Wednesday. (GRIN) 84 here in Gainesville Florida but 101% humidity. No use trying to paint because the wife won't let me bring the compressor indoors. Get more spit than paint out of the gun outside. Chuck Peck --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Henry" <long95209@...> wrote:
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Re: What's the latest projects ?
YEP HERE IN SACRAMENTO TO!!!!!
From: Henry
To: yardbirdtrains@... Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 9:12 AM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] What's the latest projects ? ?
Other that hiding inside ? I'll be trying to cope with the heat [108-110] this weekend ? Anyone else ?? Henry H. |
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Re: K4 Altoona ?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIN this thread somewhere was the thought of fabricating a brand new boiler.
Take a look at what the Brits did in building an new from scratch A-1 Peppercorn
class, sort of the British K-4. It¡¯s not identical in boiler design to the
original, in fact it is welded, so will have a long long life in excursion
service. I think it cost $3M to build and is an absolutely spectacular engine.
?
I suspect if all of us supported excursions, there would be a business case
to build a new one ¨C or at least a modern designed boiler to attach to all the
other parts that came out of the first $2M.
?
Jim Waterman |
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