From: Tom Knowles
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Driver surfaces ? Brass or NS ?
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 2:23 AM

?

Yeah, kinda like a "BARNEY-MOBILE".....I pedal as fast as I can and make "yabba-dabba-doooo" sounds.

Dr says I got Spumoni, or sumpin like that.....no wonder Ize tired.

Tom Knowles
NOTE NEW ADDRESS:  tomk@...

On 1/9/2013 4:04 AM, emmettdene wrote:

?

so tom has a rollscanhardly rolls down one canhardly make it up the next.
emmet d
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Tom Knowles wrote:
>
> Yeah Chuck, this IS the pusher district. Chuck knows what he's talking
> about, he's seen the '87 BMW I drive everywhere that has 320Kmi + on it.
> Not exactly a Tennessee hill and country moonshiner car....
>

Yeah, kinda like a "BARNEY-MOBILE".....I pedal as fast as I can and make
"yabba-dabba-doooo" sounds.

Dr says I got Spumoni, or sumpin like that.....no wonder Ize tired.

Tom Knowles
NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...

?

so tom has a rollscanhardly rolls down one canhardly make it up the next.
emmet d
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Tom Knowles wrote:
>
> Yeah Chuck, this IS the pusher district. Chuck knows what he's talking
> about, he's seen the '87 BMW I drive everywhere that has 320Kmi + on it.
> Not exactly a Tennessee hill and country moonshiner car....
>

?

?

Yeah Chuck, this IS the pusher district. Chuck knows what he's talking
about, he's seen the '87 BMW I drive everywhere that has 320Kmi + on it.
Not exactly a Tennessee hill and country moonshiner car....

Stamina or no, I'm going over to a fellow's house today to continue
assisting his Model pike build: a decent replica of the pusher district
and "Mountain Goat" branch line near here, backdated to about 1950. All
the tracks through Cowan downtown will be exactly as they were
then....11 of the 17 original yard tracks are being represented. . All
this in a 30 X30 room with a helix in a closet. Gonna be nice!

He bought a set of Labelle coaches for me to build. A modern take from
Labelle on the old-time craftsman style wooden cars, made in ood of all
things. The kits look amazing, excellent milling. Right now, I am
concentrating on a kit-bash of the Walthers cement plant as a model to
fit his space of the former Cumberland Portland Cement plant that was
here 'till 1980. Can't build a model of Cowan without that imposing
structure looming in the background. He bought the new Bachmann 45
tonner GE with siderods. like the Whitcomb that used to switch that
plant. Surprisingly, the 45 tonner is a smaller model than the 44
tonner, This one is a real deal having DCC already installed for $60!
Looks like Basset Hound snuffling along with its nose to the ground. Too
bad the horn isn't a Hound's "bay". That would complete the illusion.

Tom Knowles

On 1/7/2013 9:30 PM, lnnrr wrote:

Henry, Tom would have a lot more of that stamina stuff left if
he drove something he didn't have to push up those Tennessee
hills. I just figure he's been on that Cowan turn so long
he thinks it's natural to push everything uphill just like the
railroad did.
Chuckles

--- In yardbirdtrains@...
, "Long95209" wrote:

forget stamina for now ! Your wry sense of humor is ba''ak !
Henry
--- In yardbirdtrains@...

, Tom Knowles wrote:

Amen

Tom Knowles
NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...

On 1/8/2013 7:13 AM, Jeff Pellas wrote:

Mark,

Sometimes a subject comes up that sparks a related thought that has
been on my mind ---and that was the trade offs that occur when
remotoring, regearing, adding DCC, etc. It's a tangent that you didn't
anticipate your thread going down but that happens in a forum like
this. I knew I was starting a different thread which is why I slightly
changed the heading. That being said, I know I tend to sermonize from
time to time and I hope you're not put off by that because everything
you've brought up is 100% relevant to this forum. Model Railroading in
the 21st century with trains that are 40, 50, 60 or so years old is a
particular niche in our hobby that is not covered in the trade
magazines. I really think this forum provides a vital link to bridge
the gulf of years between when those models were new and the
technology of today that some of us (including me) try to marry to
those models. Any issue that arises along these lines is something I
am very interested in so please continue to post.

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: twilight022765
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:20 am
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Steam diagnostics. Locomotive Speed

No, Jeff I'm not saying that I object to the slow operation of a Helix
Humper motor with a DCC decoder. What I am trying to do is ask for
helpful advice from people that may have already experienced some of
these problems I tried to set forth and try to narrow down what worked
for other modelers. That's all. If the HH is suppose to operate at a
slower more realistic speed, so be it. But, when the locomotive
struggles to pull 5 cars around the club's layout, somethings wrong.?.
I haven't stated it in any of the other posts because I just came
across it last night, between my L1 project Bowser and my H9 I can
clearly see a difference between both power and speed on my test track
and both locomotives are set up the same way.

And further more, maybe this isn't or wasn't the forum to have
discussed this in, but the other message board pages that are out
there really don't have much to say on vintage HO locomotives they
seem to be more of RTR modelers. So, please excuse my ignorance. If I
was wrong to post these questions here I would have hoped the
moderator would have let me know. On the other hand, I believe I got
alot of helpful information from the others that offered their advice.

Also, thank-you very much for posting the video of the H9 in
operation. Do you know how many cars it was pulling?

?

Mark,

? ? ? Sometimes a subject comes up that sparks a related thought that has been on my mind ---and that was the trade offs that occur when remotoring, regearing, adding DCC, etc. ?It's a tangent that you didn't anticipate your thread going down but that happens in a forum like this. I knew I was starting a different thread which is why I slightly changed the heading. That being said, I know I tend to sermonize from time to time and I hope you're not put off by that because everything you've brought up is 100% relevant to this forum. Model Railroading in the 21st century with trains that are 40, 50, 60 or so years old is a particular niche in our hobby that is not covered in the trade magazines. I really think this forum provides a vital link to bridge the gulf of years between when those models were new and the technology of today that some of us (including me) try to marry to those models. Any issue that arises along these lines is something I am very interested in so please continue to post. ?

Jeff

jppellas@...

-----Original Message-----
From: twilight022765
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:20 am
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Steam diagnostics. Locomotive Speed

?

No, Jeff I'm not saying that I object to the slow operation of a Helix Humper motor with a DCC decoder. What I am trying to do is ask for helpful advice from people that may have already experienced some of these problems I tried to set forth and try to narrow down what worked for other modelers. That's all. If the HH is suppose to operate at a slower more realistic speed, so be it. But, when the locomotive struggles to pull 5 cars around the club's layout, somethings wrong.?. I haven't stated it in any of the other posts because I just came across it last night, between my L1 project Bowser and my H9 I can clearly see a difference between both power and speed on my test track and both locomotives are set up the same way.

And further more, maybe this isn't or wasn't the forum to have discussed this in, but the other message board pages that are out there really don't have much to say on vintage HO locomotives they seem to be more of RTR modelers. So, please excuse my ignorance. If I was wrong to post these questions here I would have hoped the moderator would have let me know. On the other hand, I believe I got alot of helpful information from the others that offered their advice.

Also, thank-you very much for posting the video of the H9 in operation. Do you know how many cars it was pulling?

?

Henry, Tom would have a lot more of that stamina stuff left if
he drove something he didn't have to push up those Tennessee
hills. I just figure he's been on that Cowan turn so long
he thinks it's natural to push everything uphill just like the
railroad did.
Chuckles

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Long95209" wrote:
>
> forget stamina for now ! Your wry sense of humor is ba''ak !
> Henry
> --- In yardbirdtrains@..., Tom Knowles wrote:
> >
> >

?

?

From: Ed Rothe
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: (no subject)
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 5:01 PM

?

SPAM??? dont open the link - its a virus

Emmit, did you mean denatured alcohol? I thought the rubbing stuff had a
lubricant in it...I did not know this insulating property of Goo Gone
either, which I sometimes use. Since I always have lacquer thinner here
and in small bottles on the workbench, that's what I usually use to
clean wheels and track with excellent results.

A thought about traction differences in scintered wheels smooth or NS
tires: My old Athearn units have either of these two driving wheel set-ups.
1) NWSL which I believe are machined and polished NS, seldom need
cleaning and traction is within my limits. I have one engine with
Jay-Bee wheelsets that is so-so.
2) polished scintered Athearn wheels. I never allow an Athearn to escape
my shop without this step. See below:

Athearn wheels, though porous and rough as we know (perhaps aiding
traction a bit), get a shine that seems to help prevent dirt build-up
and aids current pick up. I've noticed no reduction in TE, but I seldom
work my engines to the limit. Since I always disassemble the trucks to
clean and lubricate as well as check for the chronic cracked gear
syndrome I remove all wheels when I build or repair an Athearn engine. I
put the wheel/axle stub in a drill press, and polish the tread surface
in three steps. Start with 400 emery and go to 600, then 800 or1000 grit
autobody emery with the part spinning pretty fast. I have run the pair
of F's at the museum two years now with no cleaning of wheels. Zero.
These two dedicated Museum property Athearn F's are both powered "super
power", pulling a string of 7 stainless redetailed Athearn cars. All but
one car has wipers on the axles for interior lights, adding to the drag.
There is one grade for them each time around of about 2% with a reverse
curve. Using transistor throttles on a fixed setting, they
prototypically slow down there. I've never detected a slip, but not
loaded them to the max as in a long freight consist.

I traded my BLI heavy Mike w/ DCC and sound (L&N 1776) to a fellow near
here for a DC sound equipped version BLI light Mike. The new engine will
become another NC&StL steamer, but for use at the museum on DC which is
preferred for simplicity. Sound is a big hit with visitors. The DC with
sound is interesting, and runs great. The sound is good, pretty-well
synchronized and sharp cut-offs till it gets to above maybe 50MPH, then
becomes a weird "shuffle". The engine I traded was DOA to the other guy,
much to my embarrassment having never failed me. We met at the store
where we did this swap to t-shoot(The Dixie Flyer, Wartrace
Tennssee...trackside on the old NC&StL) and yes, the engine was dead.
Shorted! Nothing getting hot except the power pack. I did a few things
and did some disassembly and re-checks, never finding a thing wrong. Put
the engine back together and lo-an-behold!, she works fine now. Not a
clue as to what was wrong. When I was in Industrial Electronic repair,
I ran into this scenario most of the time. One particular motor
controller kept coming back to us as non-functioning, and we never found
a problem with it. We finally decided the unit just like the looks of
the technician, so we took a picture of him and taped it inside the
cover. It shipped back to the customer with evidently never another
trouble. Electronics: BAHHH.

Health-wise I am much better, but have no stamina. Working on that....

Tom Knowles

On 1/7/2013 4:00 AM, emmettdene wrote:

rubbing alcohol works great for cleaning track. leaves no residue.
emmet d

--- In yardbirdtrains@...
, Mike Bauers wrote:

Goo Gone cleans and leaves an insulating layer behind. I've used it

and seen the layout go dead as a result the following morning.

Do try any kind of tuner cleaner on those wheels. Or go to one of

the good hardware stores, auto parts supply stores, or marine supply
stores and get a can of the electronic cleaner and conditioner you
find there.

Most of the time its a CRC product

Advanced Auto Parts has " CRC QD? Electronic Cleaner" for a bit over

$7 in a large spray can. Wet a Q-tip with it and wipe the driver tires
and other electrical surfaces with it.

You can do the same with your rails [wipe about 6-inches every

several feet apart then drive around the layout] and you'll see a
marked operating improvement in a matter of seconds.

Do the complete electrical path on the loco's and your track switch

points and you'll feel like you have gold plated electrical contacts
on everything. That includes even old zamak slabs that are part of the
electrical path on old models, treat contact points and any screws
that are part of the electrical paths.

Case in point, it makes an ancient Athearn 0-4-2t Little Monster

that is largely a zamak electrical path and has sat for 20 years, run
like a new Kato after that treatment.... that and a wisp of fresh oil
and axle lube in the right places. This is my personal experience with
the stuff and that model as well as many others. Models that simply
never were known to run decently in the first place.

Don't overlook places like the body pads under the tender trucks and

the place where the washer like connector wire goes between the
locomotive and the tender. Back off such screws and wipe both the
threads and the contact area under the screw heads and the connector
'washer', then snug down to working positions.

I'm certain you will be amazed at how much better the model operates

when you have conditioned the electrical points that have become
oxidized and thus somewhat insulated over time........ with just a
certain fluid.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:44 PM, twilight022765 wrote:

John, one of the guys in my earlier posts responded with a product

he recommends called Flitz, which I just order last night on Amazon.
My drivers on my H9 are brass(probably worn down to the brass???). I
have used Goo Gone to clean them. But, as he mentioned about his club,
my club's rails can get quite dirty and maybe the Goo Gone isn't doing
the trick anymore. So, I want to give that a try. The reason for the
question was, my L1, that is set up the same way as my H9 is operating
rather nicely and has the NS drivers. It's like some one put a
resistor in line with the motor on the H9. This will be my last try to
improve the conductivity before I add the pickups.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered their helpful advice.

Mark

--- In yardbirdtrains@...

, "John Hagen" wrote:

Well I can't say much about brass vs NS but I can speak from

experience

about the difference between sintered metal and NS. By actual

comparison NS

has comparatively poor adhesion on NS track.



My "Athearn" Baldwin S-12 with an Cary built (lead-antimony) Cary

Alco S-2

shell along with added lead, a Sagami 2032 motor w/brass

flywheels and Ernst

gears was able to easily switch a cut of 56 5 oz. 40 ft. freight

cars, all

with C.V. trucks on my friends (Cal) layout. After the switch to

NWSL NS

wheels it hard a hard time moving anything over 40 of the cars in

the yard.

That coincided with Cal's change to Command Control but that

really had

nothing to do with it as the problem was wheel slip.



Although not a direct comparison, my thoughts are that brass

wheels would

have similar traction to the sintered metal. Having started on HO

around

1949 I have much experience with brass drive wheels.



So far as cleanliness if one's track is clean kept brass and

sintered metal

work just fine. So far as electrical pick-up all will work okay

but I agree

that NS gets a bit of the nod here. A more important

consideration to me is

having reasonable clean rail without being so clean and dry that

arcing is

promoted.

forget stamina for now ! Your wry sense of humor is ba''ak !
Henry
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Tom Knowles wrote: