Re: Left Coast Steam: MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28

Richard, list,

Thanks very much for the kind words!

The T28 class had Stephenson valve gear (like the MDC model out of the box), so no need for Walschaerts on my particular project.

I'm lucky to still have a local hobby shop that sells consignment items like this kit. ?The completed engine fits much better on my little test layout than my Bachmann Plus GS4 (pretty, but huge). ?

For a separate project, I did add Bowser Walschaerts valve gear to an MDC PRR 4-6-0 chassis to create running gear for a Jersey Central L7as 4-6-0. ?That was rather challenging. ?

Doug Kisala

Show quoted text

From: "rh@... [yardbirdtrains]"
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 5:50 AM
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Left Coast Steam: MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28

Doug,
You have done a fine job on your 2-6-0, and yes she would look even better with full valve gear. I have done several of these with east coast tenders and can motors but no DCC yet. Too bad the old MDC locos are no longer available except on eBay. I used gears on mine from NWSL for smoother running. The newer offerings from Athearn and Bachmann are lacking something in my opinion and un-affordable on my retirement income.
Richard in Vermont

Re: Left Coast Steam: MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28

#4138

Unaffordable ? Amen Brother .

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 9/13/17, rh@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:

 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Left Coast Steam:  MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28
 To: yardbirdtrains@...
 Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2017, 5:50 AM


 ?









       Doug,
 You have done a fine job on
 your 2-6-0, and yes she would look even better with full
 valve gear. I have done several of these with east coast
 tenders and can motors but no DCC yet. Too bad the old MDC
 locos are no longer available except on eBay. I used gears
 on mine from NWSL for smoother running. The newer offerings
 from Athearn and Bachmann are lacking something in my
 opinion and un-affordable on my retirement income.
 Richard in Vermont









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Re: Left Coast Steam: MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28

#4137

Doug,
You have done a fine job on your 2-6-0, and yes she would look even better with full valve gear. I have done several of these with east coast tenders and can motors but no DCC yet. Too bad the old MDC locos are no longer available except on eBay. I used gears on mine from NWSL for smoother running. The newer offerings from Athearn and Bachmann are lacking something in my opinion and un-affordable on my retirement income.
Richard in Vermont

Re: Left Coast Steam: MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28 [2 Attachments]

#4136

Nice work Doug !  You're right about that fan trip SP ran quite a few of those . Lots of wild flowers Springtime excursions Your loco might be on 8mm film in Livermore Ca. ? Other fan trips went up to Calaveras Cement plant , double headers , Ts or Cs , the scenery is [was] spectacular to Lodi and back ! A little FYI from the Peeble's Republik  ?
 Henry H.
--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Mon, 9/11/17, Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:

 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Left Coast Steam:  MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28 [2 Attachments]
 To: "Yard Bird Trains" <yardbirdtrains@...>
 Date: Monday, September 11, 2017, 8:04 PM


 ?









         [Attachment(s) from Doug Kisala included
 below]

       
       Hello
 list,
 I
 just (almost) finished my Model Die Casting Harriman 4-6-0.
 ?I finished and painted the model to represent Southern
 Pacific T28 2345, which finished out her service life in the
 San Francisco Bay area circa 1956. ?The real 2345 ran on at
 least one fan trip (and possibly another) before
 retirement.
 This
 is the MDC kit with minor detail changes. ?The version I
 bought (as new old stock) had a 1630 can motor and I added a
 decoder during construction. ?
 I
 replaced the generator, air pump, the number boards by the
 stack, the bell (that's the almost part, the bell
 doesn't fit the bracket), and some other parts to get a
 bit closer to the real 2345. ?
 I
 might go back and replace the crossheads and main rods with
 Bowser H9s parts at some point, but I'm happy with how
 well the engine runs.
 Doug
 Kisala









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Left Coast Steam: MDC 4-6-0 as SP T28

#4135

Hello list,

I just (almost) finished my Model Die Casting Harriman 4-6-0. ?I finished and painted the model to represent Southern Pacific T28 2345, which finished out her service life in the San Francisco Bay area circa 1956. ?The real 2345 ran on at least one fan trip (and possibly another) before retirement.

This is the MDC kit with minor detail changes. ?The version I bought (as new old stock) had a 1630 can motor and I added a decoder during construction. ?

I replaced the generator, air pump, the number boards by the stack, the bell (that's the almost part, the bell doesn't fit the bracket), and some other parts to get a bit closer to the real 2345. ?

I might go back and replace the crossheads and main rods with Bowser H9s parts at some point, but I'm happy with how well the engine runs.

Doug Kisala

Re: Mantua General Traction Tire

#4134

The Mantua General is a staple of Civil War era modeling. ?If you join the Civil_War_RRs Yahoo group you can find all kinds of information on improving the performance and detailing of the General. Search conversations for traction tire and you will find sources. ?Look in files for Mantua Rebuild.pdf for a very fine collection of tweaks for the General.

John Bopp

Farmington Hills, MI

Re: Mantua General Traction Tire

#4133

Many auto parts stores have a wide assortment of O-rings.? Take your wheelset and calipers to the store

and ask to see a selection.?

Chuck Peck

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Nathan Rich thaddeusthudpucker@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:

Show quoted text

?

Hey Gang-

I need a traction tire for a General, anybody have one they can part with or a solution that migh work to fill in this groove and leave me with a working locomotive??

Thanks in advance
Nathan Rich?

Mantua General Traction Tire

Nathan Rich

#4132

Hey Gang-

I need a traction tire for a General, anybody have one they can part with or a solution that migh work to fill in this groove and leave me with a working locomotive??

Thanks in advance

Nathan Rich?

Re: Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29

#4131

开云体育

Thanks much,

So best practices on my model locos is to leave it on all the time, unless one wants to manually control it depending on usage.

Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

Show quoted text

From: yardbirdtrains@... on behalf of 'Donald R. Staton' chpln1@... [yardbirdtrains]
Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2017 11:00 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29

?

When in reverse or when pushing and the tender is the last piece of equipment in the train.

Don in VA

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On 9/9/2017 9:25 PM, Victor Bitleris bitlerisvj@... [yardbirdtrains] wrote:

?

Hi Doug,

So were these marker lights always lit or did they come on only when in reverse?

Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

From: yardbirdtrains@... on behalf of Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains]
Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2017 12:36 PM
To: huligin62@...; Yard Bird Trains
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29 [1 Attachment]
?

?

[Attachment(s) from Doug Kisala included below]

Henry, list,

Here's another shot of the rear of a PRR tender, in this case a 130P75. ?The Bowser "13,000 gallon" tender can stand in as an early 130F82a or as a 130P75 with a bit of work. ?This tender has a third marker light for illumination when making reverse moves. ?

While the rear shot is of a K4s, the two shots below it show 130P75 tenders with M1 engines, including my chosen prototype, M1 6810. ?Lots of variations in PRR doghouses/brakeman's shelters. ?

The article's author, Roger Keyser, wrote frequently and well about PRR steam engines and tenders. ?I refer to his works frequently when I detail my Bowser and Penn Line models. ?

Doug Kisala

Re: Painting Your PRR Steam Engines

#4130

John, list,

Short answer is I don't know with certainty. ?I did go through the Keystone index to see if there was information for years earlier than 1929 without success. ?

If you're not already a member, consider joining the PRR Modeling Yahoo group. ?There are a number of early 20th Century modelers who post there on a regular basis.

While a secondary source, Tom Busack wrote about building a pair of Bowser E6s engines in the December 1990 Model Railroader. ?One of the two versions he built was an as-built 1914 E6s (ie not too far after your preferred era); he elected to follow the 1929 painting and lettering information. ?

Doug Kisala

Show quoted text

From: "jbopp007@... [yardbirdtrains]"
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 10:11 AM
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Painting Your PRR Steam Engines

Doug,

Do you know how far back this standard goes? ?My period of modeling interset is the 1900-1910 period. ?I have a Gem Pennsy F3c 2-6-0 that I would like to paint. ?I know this isn't the usual subject of interest for this group but it's a nice model. ?It represents the prototype as built and I'd like to paint it accurately. ?

John Bopp

Farmington Hills, MI

(snip)

Re: Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29

#4129

开云体育

When in reverse or when pushing and the tender is the last piece of equipment in the train.

Don in VA

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On 9/9/2017 9:25 PM, Victor Bitleris bitlerisvj@... [yardbirdtrains] wrote:

Show quoted text

???

Hi Doug,

So were these marker lights always lit or did they come on only when in reverse?

Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

From: yardbirdtrains@... on behalf of Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains]
Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2017 12:36 PM
To: huligin62@...; Yard Bird Trains
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29 [1 Attachment]
???

???

[Attachment(s) from Doug Kisala included below]

Henry, list,

Here's another shot of the rear of a PRR tender, in this case a 130P75. ???The Bowser "13,000 gallon" tender can stand in as an early 130F82a or as a 130P75 with a bit of work. ???This tender has a third marker light for illumination when making reverse moves. ???

While the rear shot is of a K4s, the two shots below it show 130P75 tenders with M1 engines, including my chosen prototype, M1 6810. ???Lots of variations in PRR doghouses/brakeman's shelters. ???

The article's author, Roger Keyser, wrote frequently and well about PRR steam engines and tenders. ???I refer to his works frequently when I detail my Bowser and Penn Line models. ???

Doug Kisala

Re: Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29 [1 Attachment]

#4128

开云体育

Hi Doug,

So were these marker lights always lit or did they come on only when in reverse?

Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

Show quoted text

From: yardbirdtrains@... on behalf of Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains]
Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2017 12:36 PM
To: huligin62@...; Yard Bird Trains
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29 [1 Attachment]

?

[Attachment(s) from Doug Kisala included below]

Henry, list,

Here's another shot of the rear of a PRR tender, in this case a 130P75. ?The Bowser "13,000 gallon" tender can stand in as an early 130F82a or as a 130P75 with a bit of work. ?This tender has a third marker light for illumination when making reverse moves. ?

While the rear shot is of a K4s, the two shots below it show 130P75 tenders with M1 engines, including my chosen prototype, M1 6810. ?Lots of variations in PRR doghouses/brakeman's shelters. ?

The article's author, Roger Keyser, wrote frequently and well about PRR steam engines and tenders. ?I refer to his works frequently when I detail my Bowser and Penn Line models. ?

Doug Kisala

Spring 1988 Keystone, Page 29

#4127

Henry, list,

Here's another shot of the rear of a PRR tender, in this case a 130P75. ?The Bowser "13,000 gallon" tender can stand in as an early 130F82a or as a 130P75 with a bit of work. ?This tender has a third marker light for illumination when making reverse moves. ?

While the rear shot is of a K4s, the two shots below it show 130P75 tenders with M1 engines, including my chosen prototype, M1 6810. ?Lots of variations in PRR doghouses/brakeman's shelters. ?

The article's author, Roger Keyser, wrote frequently and well about PRR steam engines and tenders. ?I refer to his works frequently when I detail my Bowser and Penn Line models. ?

Doug Kisala

Re: PRR Bowser/Pennline & MDC Tender Detailing

#4126

开云体育

From the pictures I see they look just like the Kemtron "backup lights", but I really believe they are marker lights, usually red.

Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

Show quoted text

From: yardbirdtrains@... on behalf of Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains]
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 1:29 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...; huligin62@...
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] PRR Bowser/Pennline & MDC Tender Detailing

?

Henry, list,

I've changed the subject line to better reflect your query.

Some photo links that may help you follow. ?You may need to copy and paste the web addresses to get them to work.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/46/eb/b946ebd958633a71b260f560e4dc62d7--pennsylvania-railroad-apps.jpg

Back of a 90F82/I1sa tender below.

http://www.rwrightrr.com/images/prints/1955_PRR_SODUS_PT_NY/i1_front___tender_rear_2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Uuwpzc87jkc/maxresdefault.jpg

Work from photos if available, but some rules of thumb follow.

Larger passenger steam engines (such as the K4s) did not have backup headlights, but typically had a third marker light on the rear of the tender with a white/clear lens that provided some illumination.

Freight and shifter (switcher) classes typically had a backup headlight on the tender. ?Very large freight classes (J1, Q1/Q2) had marker lights instead of backup lights. ?

Doug Kisala

From: "Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains]"
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

?

Just another mind messer ? The placement of rear back up lights , ladders , doghouses [ with or without awnings ?? Darned few rear of tender photos to look at ?? Henry suddenly PRR bigtime steam modeler ??

? ?(snip)

? ?

PRR Bowser/Pennline & MDC Tender Detailing

#4125

Henry, list,

I've changed the subject line to better reflect your query.

Some photo links that may help you follow. ?You may need to copy and paste the web addresses to get them to work.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/46/eb/b946ebd958633a71b260f560e4dc62d7--pennsylvania-railroad-apps.jpg

Back of a 90F82/I1sa tender below.

http://www.rwrightrr.com/images/prints/1955_PRR_SODUS_PT_NY/i1_front___tender_rear_2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Uuwpzc87jkc/maxresdefault.jpg

Work from photos if available, but some rules of thumb follow.

Larger passenger steam engines (such as the K4s) did not have backup headlights, but typically had a third marker light on the rear of the tender with a white/clear lens that provided some illumination.

Freight and shifter (switcher) classes typically had a backup headlight on the tender. ?Very large freight classes (J1, Q1/Q2) had marker lights instead of backup lights. ?

Doug Kisala

Show quoted text

From: "Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains]"
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

Just another mind messer ? The placement of rear back up lights , ladders , doghouses [ with or without awnings ?? Darned few rear of tender photos to look at ?? Henry suddenly PRR bigtime steam modeler ??

? ?(snip)

? ?

Re: Painting Your PRR Steam Engines

#4124

Doug,

Do you know how far back this standard goes? ?My period of modeling interset is the 1900-1910 period. ?I have a Gem Pennsy F3c 2-6-0 that I would like to paint. ?I know this isn't the usual subject of interest for this group but it's a nice model. ?It represents the prototype as built and I'd like to paint it accurately. ?

John Bopp

Farmington Hills, MI

Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

#4123

开云体育

Yeah Henry, you want another mind messer.? Kemtron/PSC sells a "backup light" that came out for their 2-6-0 kit.? I was wondering what that heck that was since the tender also had a backup light (Pyle Headlight) on its deck/? The "backup light" was mounted on the back of the tender wall in the center.? After a bunch of researching, I eventually found out that it was a marker light and not a backup light as Kemtron named.

Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

From: yardbirdtrains@... on behalf of Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 11:43 AM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

?

Just another mind messer ? The placement of rear back up lights , ladders , doghouses [ with or without awnings ?? Darned few rear of tender photos to look at ?? Henry suddenly PRR bigtime steam modeler ??
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/6/17, Richard Dipping richarddipping@... [yardbirdtrains] wrote:

Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017, 3:21 PM

?

The PRR painted red on the canvas roofs of
wooden cabs, too.? There were definite specs concerning the
painting of cab roofs.? If I remember, they used freight
car paint; straight for original work and mixed with black
for repaints.? And the practice goes back many years - not
just post war.? This comes from the official painting
instructions for locomotives, circa 1930, which is probably
a re-iteration of earlier practice.

On steel cabs the red area was bordered by and did not
go past the rain gutters.? On wood cabs the red was applied
to the entire canvas area down to the top edge of the
walls.

?

Richard.

?

?

?

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]

To: yardbirdtrains

Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 4:35 pm

Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

I don't know the answer to the red roofs and decks but I
have no doubt about Vic's reply. I've always thought
that the red roof was a Post War look and I suspect Vic has
his finger on the reason for that. The PRR was transitioning
to diesels so, naturally, they would've put as little
money into steam loco maintenance as they could get away
with. Hence they stopped over painting the Red Lead in the
last years resulting in that look. Just a guess!

Jeff

jppellas@...

-----Original Message-----

From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@...
[yardbirdtrains]

To: yardbirdtrains

Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 02:06 PM

Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

?

Hey guys ! What is the definitive story of red [?] cab
roofs and tender decks on PRR steam ??? Henry

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 9/5/17, Doug Kisala dougkisala@...
[yardbirdtrains]
wrote:

Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

To: "yardbirdtrains@..."
,
"jppellas@..."

Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017, 8:33 AM

?

Jeff,

list,

It may

take another decade or so for me to detail the engines,
but

it is a good feeling to have them running.

?

I first

became aware of 6810's unique (at least at the end
of

PRR's steam era) when I read Carleton's
"Pennsy

Steam: ?A to T. ?I'm not sure what service precluded
a

larger tender or required the smaller 130P75, but 6810

intrigued me.

While I am

planning a larger layout, the 6810 fits decently on my

smaller test layout compared to my Broadway Limited M1b.
?

?

The N1s

chassis was an older Bowser chassis with the cast frame
and

smaller cylinders. ?I was really lucky with timing, and
I

bought Bowser's newer cylinder block for the N1s
just

before they stopped production. ?

If I hit

the lottery, resurrecting Alliance and/or getting
customized

NWSL motor and gearbox combinations for popular die cast

steam models would be one of my projects. ?I've had

very good luck with the Alliance repower kits. ?

Doug

Kisala

From: "Jeff Pellas

jppellas@...
[yardbirdtrains]"

To:

yardbirdtrains@...

Sent: Tuesday,

September 5, 2017 5:41 AM

Subject: Re:

[yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

?

Doug,? ?

?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the
end

with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were

originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s.
In

the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods
that

didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s
back.

Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130
as

one came available.? ?

?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis?

Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went

away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because
they

are a significant improvement.

Jeff

jppellas@...

(snip)

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Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

#4122

Just another mind messer ? The placement of rear back up lights , ladders , doghouses [ with or without awnings ?? Darned few rear of tender photos to look at ??   Henry suddenly PRR bigtime steam modeler ??
--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Wed, 9/6/17, Richard Dipping richarddipping@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
 To: yardbirdtrains@...
 Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017, 3:21 PM

 ?

 The PRR painted red on the canvas roofs of
 wooden cabs, too.? There were definite specs concerning the
 painting of cab roofs.? If I remember, they used freight
 car paint; straight for original work and mixed with black
 for repaints.? And the practice goes back many years - not
 just post war.? This comes from the official painting
 instructions for locomotives, circa 1930, which is probably
 a re-iteration of earlier practice.

 On steel cabs the red area was bordered by and did not
 go past the rain gutters.? On wood cabs the red was applied
 to the entire canvas area down to the top edge of the
 walls.

 ?

 Richard.

 ?

 ?

 ?

 -----Original Message-----

 From: Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]
 <yardbirdtrains@...>

 To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>

 Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 4:35 pm

 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

 I don't know the answer to the red roofs and decks but I
 have no doubt about Vic's reply. I've always thought
 that the red roof was a Post War look and I suspect Vic has
 his finger on the reason for that. The PRR was transitioning
 to diesels so, naturally, they would've put as little
 money into steam loco maintenance as they could get away
 with. Hence they stopped over painting the Red Lead in the
 last years resulting in that look. Just a guess!

 Jeff

 jppellas@...

 -----Original Message-----

 From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@...
 [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...>

 To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>

 Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 02:06 PM

 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

 ?

 Hey guys ! What is the definitive story of red [?] cab
 roofs and tender decks on PRR steam ??? Henry

 --------------------------------------------

 On Tue, 9/5/17, Doug Kisala dougkisala@...
 [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...>
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

  To: "yardbirdtrains@..."
 <yardbirdtrains@...>,
 "jppellas@..."
 <jppellas@...>

  Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017, 8:33 AM

  ?

        Jeff,

  list,

  It may

  take another decade or so for me to detail the engines,
 but

  it is a good feeling to have them running.

  ?

  I first

  became aware of 6810's unique (at least at the end
 of

  PRR's steam era) when I read Carleton's
 "Pennsy

  Steam: ?A to T. ?I'm not sure what service precluded
 a

  larger tender or required the smaller 130P75, but 6810

  intrigued me.

  While I am

  planning a larger layout, the 6810 fits decently on my

  smaller test layout compared to my Broadway Limited M1b.
 ?

  ?

  The N1s

  chassis was an older Bowser chassis with the cast frame
 and

  smaller cylinders. ?I was really lucky with timing, and
 I

  bought Bowser's newer cylinder block for the N1s
 just

  before they stopped production. ?

  If I hit

  the lottery, resurrecting Alliance and/or getting
 customized

  NWSL motor and gearbox combinations for popular die cast

  steam models would be one of my projects. ?I've had

  very good luck with the Alliance repower kits. ?

  Doug

  Kisala

    From: "Jeff Pellas

  jppellas@...
 [yardbirdtrains]"

  <yardbirdtrains@...>

  To:

  yardbirdtrains@...

   Sent: Tuesday,

  September 5, 2017 5:41 AM

   Subject: Re:

  [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

  ?

        Doug,? ?

  ?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the
 end

  with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were

  originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s.
 In

  the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods
 that

  didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s
 back.

  Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130
 as

  one came available.? ?

  ?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis?

  Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went

  away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because
 they

  are a significant improvement.

  Jeff

  jppellas@...

  (snip)

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Painting Your PRR Steam Engines

#4121

Hello list,

Don't worry, I'm not trying to turn this into a prototype modeling list. ?Part of the reason I post about my PRR steam engines here is I like making my Bowser kits run well and I've gotten a lot of suggestions from all of you.

Anyway, what follows is a highly condensed version of an article from Volume 2, Number 2, page 9 of the Keystone, which is the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society's flagship publication. ?Page 9 is based on PRR painting standards as of October 1929.

As of 1929, boiler, cab, cylinders, and trailing truck frames were painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel (often referred to as Brunswick Green). ?The smokebox, firebox, stack, and ash pans got front end paint.

Frame and running gear parts were black. ?Optionally, truck frames could also be black. ?

Steel cab roofs got a mix of freight car color and black. ?Wood cab roofs got pure freight car color. ?Cab window sashes were a red sash color, and cab interiors were green. ?

The tender top surfaces were freight car color (a brighter oxide red). ?Tender tank sides were Dark Green Locomotive Enamel, and tender frame, underbody, and trucks were black.

By the late steam era (WWII and beyond), not all of these standard were followed (or may have been superseded by a later set of standards). ?At least some PRR steam engines had black cab roofs, even when clean; this seemed to be the case for some of the larger engines, like the J1/J1a class. ?The window sashes seemed to be Dark Green Locomotive Enamel for most engines in the 1940s and 1950s. ?Where color photos are available, tender top surfaces did still get a coat of freight car color. ?The color of front end paint tended to get darker in the 1940s and 1950s (towards more of a gray/black). ?I recall a shot of a T1 in storage in Don Ball's PRR 1940s-1950s book that shows the inside of the stack with what looks like freight car color ?

Doug Kisala

Who has a lot of Bowser PRR steam engine kits still to build and paint

Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

#4120

The PRR painted red on the canvas roofs of wooden cabs, too.? There were definite specs concerning the painting of cab roofs.? If I remember, they used freight car paint; straight for original work and mixed with black for repaints.? And the practice goes back many years - not just post war.? This comes from the official painting instructions for locomotives, circa 1930, which is probably a re-iteration of earlier practice.

On steel cabs the red area was bordered by and did not go past the rain gutters.? On wood cabs the red was applied to the entire canvas area down to the top edge of the walls.

?

Richard.

?

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

I don't know the answer to the red roofs and decks but I have no doubt about Vic's reply. I've always thought that the red roof was a Post War look and I suspect Vic has his finger on the reason for that. The PRR was transitioning to diesels so, naturally, they would've put as little money into steam loco maintenance as they could get away with. Hence they stopped over painting the Red Lead in the last years resulting in that look. Just a guess!

Jeff
jppellas@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...>
To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 02:06 PM
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

Hey guys ! What is the definitive story of red [?] cab roofs and tender decks on PRR steam ??? Henry

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/5/17, Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
To: "yardbirdtrains@..." <yardbirdtrains@...>, "jppellas@..." <jppellas@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017, 8:33 AM

?

Jeff,
list,
It may
take another decade or so for me to detail the engines, but
it is a good feeling to have them running.
?
I first
became aware of 6810's unique (at least at the end of
PRR's steam era) when I read Carleton's "Pennsy
Steam: ?A to T. ?I'm not sure what service precluded a
larger tender or required the smaller 130P75, but 6810
intrigued me.
While I am
planning a larger layout, the 6810 fits decently on my
smaller test layout compared to my Broadway Limited M1b. ?
?

The N1s
chassis was an older Bowser chassis with the cast frame and
smaller cylinders. ?I was really lucky with timing, and I
bought Bowser's newer cylinder block for the N1s just
before they stopped production. ?
If I hit
the lottery, resurrecting Alliance and/or getting customized
NWSL motor and gearbox combinations for popular die cast
steam models would be one of my projects. ?I've had
very good luck with the Alliance repower kits. ?
Doug
Kisala

From: "Jeff Pellas
jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]"
<yardbirdtrains@...>

To:
yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Tuesday,
September 5, 2017 5:41 AM
Subject: Re:
[yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2

?

Doug,? ?
?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the end
with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were
originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s. In
the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods that
didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s back.
Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130 as
one came available.? ?
?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis?
Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went
away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because they
are a significant improvement.
Jeff
jppellas@...

(snip)

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