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Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
I don't know the answer to the red roofs and decks but I have no doubt about Vic's reply. I've always thought that the red roof was a Post War look and I suspect Vic has his finger on the reason for that. The PRR was transitioning to diesels so, naturally, they would've put as little money into steam loco maintenance as they could get away with. Hence they stopped over painting the Red Lead in the last years resulting in that look. Just a guess!
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Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message-----
From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Wed, Sep 6, 2017 02:06 PM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
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Hey guys ! What is the definitive story of red [?] cab roofs and tender decks on PRR steam ??? Henry |
Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
开云体育Hi Henry, Not just PRR, most steamers had the tender decks and cab roofs painted with "red lead".? Basically it is a fairly rust proof primer, but worked pretty well to prevent rust.? Some railroads painted black over it, but most kept it red, because of the heavy wear and tear on those surfaces, these areas were repainted with red lead regularly. As an aside, I remember a neighbor re-doing the gutters on his house around 1958.? He used galvanized U shaped gutters and a gas fired soldering iron to solder the gutters to the corners and downspouts.? Prior to hanging the gutters he painted them kind of what looked like barn red or boxcar red.? He called the paint red lead and it was fairly thick.? I was about 10 years old at the time and very confused as to me lead was a metal and how can you paint it.? Later on, I found out lead was indeed used in old time paint. I any case, I doubt the red on the tender decks and cab roofs was for looks. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC From: yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:06 PM To: yardbirdtrains@... Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2 ?
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Hey guys ! What is the definitive story of red [?] cab roofs and tender decks on PRR steam ??? Henry |
Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
Hey guys ! What is the definitive story of red [?] cab roofs and tender decks on PRR steam ??? Henry
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-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 9/5/17, Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2 To: "yardbirdtrains@..." <yardbirdtrains@...>, "jppellas@..." <jppellas@...> Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017, 8:33 AM ? Jeff, list, It may take another decade or so for me to detail the engines, but it is a good feeling to have them running. ? I first became aware of 6810's unique (at least at the end of PRR's steam era) when I read Carleton's "Pennsy Steam: ?A to T. ?I'm not sure what service precluded a larger tender or required the smaller 130P75, but 6810 intrigued me. While I am planning a larger layout, the 6810 fits decently on my smaller test layout compared to my Broadway Limited M1b. ? ? The N1s chassis was an older Bowser chassis with the cast frame and smaller cylinders. ?I was really lucky with timing, and I bought Bowser's newer cylinder block for the N1s just before they stopped production. ? If I hit the lottery, resurrecting Alliance and/or getting customized NWSL motor and gearbox combinations for popular die cast steam models would be one of my projects. ?I've had very good luck with the Alliance repower kits. ? Doug Kisala From: "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]" <yardbirdtrains@...> To: yardbirdtrains@... Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2 ? Doug,? ? ?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the end with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s. In the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods that didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s back. Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130 as one came available.? ? ?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis? Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because they are a significant improvement. Jeff jppellas@... 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Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
Doug,
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? ? ?I have Pennsy Steam: A to T but it's been so long since I read it I had forgotten that M1 info. What a great book that is! ? ? ?I just picked up yet another PL decapod on eBay. It has no motor but, otherwise, the loco is complete with very little wheel wear. Long D tender came with Athearn sprung Buckeye trucks instead of the stock PL ones. I'll just add it to my salvage yard of future projects. Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message-----
From: Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains ; jppellas Sent: Tue, Sep 5, 2017 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
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Jeff, list, It may take another decade or so for me to detail the engines, but it is a good feeling to have them running. ? I first became aware of 6810's unique (at least at the end of PRR's steam era) when I read Carleton's "Pennsy Steam: ?A to T. ?I'm not sure what service precluded a larger tender or required the smaller 130P75, but 6810 intrigued me. While I am planning a larger layout, the 6810 fits decently on my smaller test layout compared to my Broadway Limited M1b. ? ? The N1s chassis was an older Bowser chassis with the cast frame and smaller cylinders. ?I was really lucky with timing, and I bought Bowser's newer cylinder block for the N1s just before they stopped production. ? If I hit the lottery, resurrecting Alliance and/or getting customized NWSL motor and gearbox combinations for popular die cast steam models would be one of my projects. ?I've had very good luck with the Alliance repower kits. ? Doug Kisala From: "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]" <yardbirdtrains@...> To: yardbirdtrains@... Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 5:41 AM Subj ect: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
?
Doug, ? ? ?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the end with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s. In the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods that didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s back. Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130 as one came available. ? ? ?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis? Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because they are a significant improvement. Jeff jppellas@... (snip) |
Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
Jeff, list, It may take another decade or so for me to detail the engines, but it is a good feeling to have them running. ? I first became aware of 6810's unique (at least at the end of PRR's steam era) when I read Carleton's "Pennsy Steam: ?A to T. ?I'm not sure what service precluded a larger tender or required the smaller 130P75, but 6810 intrigued me. While I am planning a larger layout, the 6810 fits decently on my smaller test layout compared to my Broadway Limited M1b. ? ? The N1s chassis was an older Bowser chassis with the cast frame and smaller cylinders. ?I was really lucky with timing, and I bought Bowser's newer cylinder block for the N1s just before they stopped production. ? If I hit the lottery, resurrecting Alliance and/or getting customized NWSL motor and gearbox combinations for popular die cast steam models would be one of my projects. ?I've had very good luck with the Alliance repower kits. ? Doug Kisala From: "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains]" To: yardbirdtrains@... Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
?
Doug, ? ? ?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the end with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s. In the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods that didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s back. Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130 as one came available. ? ? ?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis? Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because they are a significant improvement. Jeff jppellas@... (snip) |
Re: PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2 [2 Attachments]
Doug,
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? ? ?Nice work. I was unaware that any M1 made it to the end with a smaller tender. Those 13,000 gallon tenders were originally built for decapods but were reassigned to K4s. In the Post War years, as K4s were retired, some decapods that didn't get the massive welded tenders got the 130s back. Makes sense that an M1 still using a 110 would get a 130 as one came available. ? ? ?That N1 looks sharp. Is that a recent decapod chassis? Looks it with the updated pistons. Too bad Alliance went away. Fortunate that you have their mechanisms because they are a significant improvement. Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message-----
From: Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains] To: Yard Bird Trains Sent: Mon, Sep 4, 2017 10:52 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2 [2 Attachments]
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[Attachment(s) from Doug Kisala included below]
Hello list, I had a productive hobby day today. ?I added digital command control to two models, and I've had both of them turn successful laps on my test layout. ? I attached shots of my Bowser M1 and my Bowser/Cary N1s to this email. ?I bought the M1 kit in 2006 brand new and unassembled. ?Prior to today, I had assembled the chassis and installed, but not wired, an Alliance repower kit. ? My Bowser M1 will represent 6810,
which was the last M1 with a smaller tender. ?6810 began her service with a 110P75 and ended her working life with a 130P75. ?By the time of her retirement in late 1957, all other remaining M1 engines had variations of the 210F75. ?My kit came with the Bowser "13000 gallon" tender, which is closest to a 130F82 (as used on some I1s/I1sa 2-10-0s), but will stand in nicely for a 130P75. ?The show below shows 6810 in her final working configuration. ? The N1s 2-10-2 is less known than the M1/M1a/M1b, but I've wanted to build one ever since I read the Nove
mber 1970 Model Railroader, which had an article on detailing the N1s. ?I bought the N1s kit partially assembled. ?The previous owner had completed a rolling I1sa chassis, but had not drilled or tapped for the frame extension that comes with the Cary boiler. ?The previous owner had included, but not installed, an Alliance can motor repower kit. ? I'm still figuring out the front boiler mounting for my Bowser/Cary N1s; the cab is attached securely to the frame, but the front is not secured. ?My tender is smaller that the ones that real N1s engines ran with; it is the Bowser low sided tender fitted with a Lines West coal bunker. ?I had built the tender for use with a Bowser H9s that I converted into an H10s before I found out my selected prototype had a different tender. ?I'll use the existing tender for now until I can fin
d or build the similar, but larger, correct tender. ? I don't know which engine my N1s will represent yet. ?You can find a bunch of N1s pictures at the link below. ? Doug Kisala |
PRR N1s 2-10-2 and M1 4-8-2
Hello list, I had a productive hobby day today. ?I added digital command control to two models, and I've had both of them turn successful laps on my test layout. ? I attached shots of my Bowser M1 and my Bowser/Cary N1s to this email. ?I bought the M1 kit in 2006 brand new and unassembled. ?Prior to today, I had assembled the chassis and installed, but not wired, an Alliance repower kit. ? My Bowser M1 will represent 6810, which was the last M1 with a smaller tender. ?6810 began her service with a 110P75 and ended her working life with a 130P75. ?By the time of her retirement in late 1957, all other remaining M1 engines had variations of the 210F75. ?My kit came with the Bowser "13000 gallon" tender, which is closest to a 130F82 (as used on some I1s/I1sa 2-10-0s), but will stand in nicely for a 130P75. ?The show below shows 6810 in her final working configuration. ? The N1s 2-10-2 is less known than the M1/M1a/M1b, but I've wanted to build one ever since I read the November 1970 Model Railroader, which had an article on detailing the N1s. ?I bought the N1s kit partially assembled. ?The previous owner had completed a rolling I1sa chassis, but had not drilled or tapped for the frame extension that comes with the Cary boiler. ?The previous owner had included, but not installed, an Alliance can motor repower kit. ? I'm still figuring out the front boiler mounting for my Bowser/Cary N1s; the cab is attached securely to the frame, but the front is not secured. ?My tender is smaller that the ones that real N1s engines ran with; it is the Bowser low sided tender fitted with a Lines West coal bunker. ?I had built the tender for use with a Bowser H9s that I converted into an H10s before I found out my selected prototype had a different tender. ?I'll use the existing tender for now until I can find or build the similar, but larger, correct tender. ? I don't know which engine my N1s will represent yet. ?You can find a bunch of N1s pictures at the link below. ? Doug Kisala |
Re: Bowser K11 4-6-2
I also built a K-11 kit back in the day (late '60"s). ?Did some redetailing, including adding a Kemtron working Walschearts valve gear. ?I ditched the kit tender and replaced it with a Rivarossi B&O S-1 Vandy tender. ?Painted it up for the club railroad (Maryland Central RR). ?Somehow it disappeared; maybe when we had to relocate the club in the mid-70's or someone thought it was surplus and sold it at one of the auctions we used to run. ?Kinda hope it turns up a show someday so I can get it back.
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DM -----Original Message----- From: Alfred Erdmann oklacnw@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 3:56 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Bowser K11 4-6-2
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I bought a Bowser K11 kit in Korea in 1959 it came with a semi-Vanderbilt tender which I gave to another modeler years later. Still have the K11, at one time was trying to rebuild into another RR engine. Al > On September 2, 2017 at 10:33 PM yardbirdtrains@... wrote:
> > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Bowser K11 With Athearn 4-6-2 Tender > From: Doug Kisala > E. |
Re: Bowser K11 4-6-2
I bought a Bowser K11 kit in Korea in 1959 it came with a semi-Vanderbilt tender which I gave to another modeler years later. Still have the K11, at one time was trying to rebuild into another RR engine. Al > On September 2, 2017 at 10:33 PM yardbirdtrains@... wrote:
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Re: Bowser K11 With Athearn 4-6-2 Tender [1 Attachment]
Hey Doug ! I tend to agree that the tender you have is way bigger than any K11 I have in photos . The trucks are out of scale proportions because of Mr. Athearn's thick axles ??Clear vision or USRA looking tenders with roadd pilot or footboards on front
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were the norms ?? Henry -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/1/17, Doug Kisala dougkisala@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser K11 With Athearn 4-6-2 Tender [1 Attachment] To: "Yard Bird Trains" <yardbirdtrains@...> Date: Friday, September 1, 2017, 9:03 PM ? [Attachment(s) from Doug Kisala included below] Hello list, I picked up a completed Bowser K11 kit from a hobby shop near work yesterday. ?It ran intermittently out of the box and much better after I cleaned its wheels. ?The person who assembled it did a rather good job, and I'm enjoying the model. The tender intrigues me. ?I think my new (to me) K11 model has an Athearn 4-6-2 tender. ?What do you think? ?It is rather larger than the tenders that the real K11 engines used. ? The link below is to a shot of an Athearn 4-6-2 with a similar-looking tender. ?You might need to copy and paste it to get the link to work. ? Doug Kisala #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679 -- #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp #yiv1545716679hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp #yiv1545716679ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp .yiv1545716679ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp .yiv1545716679ad p { margin:0;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-mkp .yiv1545716679ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-sponsor #yiv1545716679ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-sponsor #yiv1545716679ygrp-lc #yiv1545716679hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv1545716679 #yiv1545716679ygrp-sponsor #yiv1545716679ygrp-lc .yiv1545716679ad { 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Bowser K11 With Athearn 4-6-2 Tender
Hello list, I picked up a completed Bowser K11 kit from a hobby shop near work yesterday. ?It ran intermittently out of the box and much better after I cleaned its wheels. ?The person who assembled it did a rather good job, and I'm enjoying the model. The tender intrigues me. ?I think my new (to me) K11 model has an Athearn 4-6-2 tender. ?What do you think? ?It is rather larger than the tenders that the real K11 engines used. ? The link below is to a shot of an Athearn 4-6-2 with a similar-looking tender. ?You might need to copy and paste it to get the link to work. ? Doug Kisala |
Re: PRR decals
开云体育Yes, Dulux gold is not what one could truly call gold as in jewelry or watches. It is simply a deeper, richer hue of yellow that does not lean towards orange. It is a much more “pleasant” shade of yellow than the rather stark pure yellow. ?As used on railroads, it would likely show up better and last longer than yellow. There really isn’t a paint color that could be considered a true gold as there is none of the luster (for lack of a better word) of gold. For imitating gold leaf lettering on fire trucks and such I have used the gold foil available from Alps. It will have the shiny, mirror like appearance of gold leaf. They also have a silver foil very useful for imitating silver leaf and chrome. John Hagen ? From: yardbirdtrains@... [mailto:yardbirdtrains@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 4:14 PM To: yardbirdtrains@... Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR decals ? ? I have used the Dulux Gold PRR decals for years. They are not 'gold', nor was the lettering on later PRR engines. I like em |
Re: PRR decals
开云体育Henry, I agree with Roger. What a decal looks like on the carrier paper can be vastly different from what it looks like on the model. He color, as we see it, will vary greatly depending on the surrounding color(s). I have a solid sheet of Microscale dulux gold. No printing, no borders, just dulux gold, period. It looks like crap. But, I’ve compared it with a few of their decal sets that include dulux golf and the hue is the same. And I know from viewing others models and some of my own experience with Microscale dulux gold that it looks fine on a model. And besides, even if it ain’t your idea of perfection, where yas gonna get something better? Champ? Walthers? Why do I have a sheet of Dulux gold? Well, it seemed Microscale’s ?dulux gold was a decent hue and I was trying to find a way to print dulux gold on my Alps printers. Can’t really be done. I could come up with something that would resemble DG from a distance through a dirty window but it would have to a dithered color (meaning, on not-all-that-close inspection, you could see the dot matrix pattern). It certainly is not something I’d sell as a true DG. There was a time maybe 10 + years ago or more when I could do a good DG with an Alps but it required using orange cartridges from the Kodak First Check version of the Alps, and they haven’t been around like forever. It was not a match for the Microscale DG but then neither did many of the prototype DG match one another. And then you consider aging of the paint and……. There is a new orange available from Japan but the price is high and then you add in shipping from Japan and…wow. I have some and it is not the same color as the Kodak and I have not been able to layer other colors onto it so I could adjust the hue like I could with the Kodak orange. So my advice is to lay some decals on and see how they look. John Hagen ? From: yardbirdtrains@... [mailto:yardbirdtrains@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 11:56 AM To: yardbirdtrains@... Subject: [yardbirdtrains] PRR decals ? ? Jeff ! List !! I am going to decal my Penn Road steam locos , I have ?Micro Scale 1166 sheet ? It says 1948 - 1960 ? does NOT look as delux gold should ? Help me out PLEASE ?? ? ? Henry? |
Re: PRR decals
Henry, I don't know why but quite often the color on a decal sheet will look very wrong but when applied turns out perfect. I have found dulux gold especially true to that statement over the years. It's just magic or something! I think you might just try a smaller decal and let it dry and check it out. They remove easily with some Scotch tape if it doesn't please your eye leaving no damage. Just don't apply any clear coats or anything over it. That changes everything. Let us know what you find out. Good luck! Roger Huber Deer Creek Locomotive Works From: "huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains]" <yardbirdtrains@...> To: yardbirdtrains@... Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 11:56 AM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] PRR decals
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Jeff ! List !! I am going to decal my Penn Road steam locos , I have ?Micro Scale 1166 sheet ? It says 1948 - 1960 ? does NOT look as delux gold should ? Help me out PLEASE ?? ? ? Henry?
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Re: The latest issu e of the NKP Modeler’s Notebook is here!
I took a pan shot of 663 or 665 at the same crossing the Hirsimaki did . The two boys were watching 954 hustle west ?. Snow , cold I loved it !! The crew shaed 954 with me so I could take my pix of her . Tied to her clear vision tender was a rider car !! ? Henry?
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