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Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
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If that cross brace was put in place with silver solder, I would think it would be perfectly OK due to the extra strength of silver solder. I once had a pair of glasses that kept coming apart so I tried regular solder on them to no avail. I called the local option and was told to use silver solder. I did and the glasses never broke after that. Richard in Vermont? ---In yardbirdtrains@..., <jppellas@...> wrote: Vic,
? ? ?Interesting build which, no doubt, resulted in a super rigid and rugged frame! Do you still have the locomotive??
? ? ?Scratch building a loco is the Everest of ?the "craftsman" facet of the model railroad hobby. I am but a humble kit-basher. Some day, perhaps! ? Jeff
jppellas@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2013 5:58 am Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
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Hi Jeff,
These posts may almost be more suitable to the Brasslocobuilder groupe. ?:o) ?I also agree that a flat cross brace soldered to the frame the way they do is not the best practice. ?I suspect it goes very fast when the pieces are in a jig and the soldering operation is completed very fast with a torch or oven. ?When I built a fabricated brass frame following a Harold Frierson 1959/1960 series of Model Railroader articles, I used spacers made from brass tubing and a 1/16" rod going through. ?I will explain. ?The article wanted you to use Varney frame spacers. ?Maybe they were available back in the 1950's and 1960's, but in the 1970's when I was doing this, the very well stocked hobby shop I supported never heard of these. ?So, I made mine using telescoping brass tubing to get to a 3/8" diameter and using a 3/32 tube on the inside, I made about 4 or 5 of the tubing spacers and made sure they were exactly square a
nd the same exact length by chucking in a drill and using a file. I then drilled the 1/16" holes in the side frames as needed, installed the 1/16" rod through the spacers and frame side members. ?I made the 1/16" rod about 1/16" longer then the outside width of the frame and had them extend about 1/32" on each side. ?I then fluxed everything up, installed the spacers, wacked the ends of the 1/16" rod with a center punch to make sure they were tight, double checked the frame for being square and hit it with a torch. ?Afterwards, I filed the remaining rod ends flush with the frame. ?I then was able to install a piece of 1/32" brass sheet across a couple of these spacers using 0-80 flathead screws as a motor mount. ?Voila! ?The frame is very solid and you can solder whatever you want on it without fear of it coming apart.
Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@... From: jppellas@... Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:08:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question ?
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws?
Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: long95209 <long95209@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
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?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote: According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If
you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch <kbkchooch@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
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Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
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