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Hugely important win: Help us keep the pressure up! / Une victoire tr¨¨s importante : Aidez-nous ¨¤ maintenir la pression !

 

Some better news?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East <info@...>
Date: Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 6:15?PM
Subject: Hugely important win: Help us keep the pressure up! / Une victoire tr¨¨s importante : Aidez-nous ¨¤ maintenir la pression !
To: Rob Snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...>


Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East

La version fran?aise suit...

Dear Rob,

Just hours ago, Canada's Minister of International Development, Ahmed Hussen, announced that , the UN aid agency for Palestinian refugees. This is hugely important win, and could mean the difference between life or death for millions of Palestinians!? WE THANK EVERYONE who participated in pushing for a reinstatement of Canada's funding, and we thank Hussen for listening to Canadians!??

This decision is a hugely important policy reversal for the Canadian government, which to UNRWA on January 26 based on unsubstantiated Israeli accusations against a handful of UNRWA employees.? Against all common sense, this cut was announced on the very same day that the World Court concluded that Israel was "plausibly" committing a genocide in Gaza.

? Even if Canada has reinstated funding to UNRWA, it can still do more to Israel to allow humanitarian aid to flow freely to Palestinians in Gaza!? And other government ministers refuse to take other important steps to help the Palestinians of Gaza.? Palestinian lives are still in severe jeopardy!

Two weeks ago, CJPME and over 125 other organizations signed?an ?entitled "."? Sadly, this imperative remains, as ministers have either failed to intervene in the unfolding genocide in Gaza, or have actually made matters worse:

  • Foreign Affairs Minister M¨¦lanie Joly?has resisted calls for a ceasefire, refused to condemn Israel¡¯s violence against Palestinians, and ignored the World Court¡¯s finding of a ¡°plausible¡± genocide in Gaza;
  • Thankfully, Minister of International Development Ahmed Hussen has restored UNRWA funding.? We now expect him to work within cabinet to?call for pressuring Israel to allow funding to enter Gaza despite the life-threatening conditions faced by Gaza's civilian population
  • Minister of Immigration Marc Miller delayed a program of temporary visas for Gaza relatives of Canadians, and ultimately delivered a racist program with limited spots, and unreasonable application requirements for people in a war zone.

We cannot accept this to be Canada¡¯s legacy amid the genocide unfolding before our eyes in Gaza. Each of these Ministers have a crticial role to play.? If they cannot step up in this moment of extreme crisis and redress these errors, they should step aside.

to say, ? Even if you have already participated in this call, ? Your email is sent to these ministers, as well as your own MP.? They need to feel the heat!??

Please share this campaign:

  • Click to Tweet, or our campaign tweet.
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More Info?

Despite the urgency of the unfolding genocide in Gaza, Ministers Joly, Hussen, and Miller have each announced decisions which reflect little regard for Palestinian life or international law, and have shown very little situational awareness concerning the impact of their decisions. By 1) transferring weapons into a genocidal context, and 2) knowingly withdrawing support for Gaza¡¯s humanitarian infrastructure, the actions of Ministers Joly and Hussen directly violate the ICJ¡¯s orders to prevent genocide. Meanwhile, Minister Miller has put up unnecessary barriers that complicate the ability of the loved ones of Canadians to flee a context of genocidal violence.

Foreign Affairs Minister M¨¦lanie Joly - Minister Joly¡¯s failure to respond to the ICJ¡¯s initial ruling on the plausibility of genocide in Gaza demonstrates that Canada is not taking the catastrophic threat to human life seriously. Leading up to the decision, Joly expressed support for the court itself but refused to take a clear position on South Africa¡¯s application, and even its ¡°premise.¡± When asked to clarify her position, Joly responded to inquiries , as if she and the government purposely intended to be unclear. When the ICJ issued provisional measures ordering Israel to take measures to prevent genocide, Joly¡¯s did not express support for the measures nor call upon Israel to comply with the ruling. Rather than recognizing the seriousness of the ICJ¡¯s provisional ruling, her response implied that before taking action, Canada needed to wait until the ICJ¡¯s ¡°final¡± decision on genocide ¨C something that could take years. This response reflected smug indifference to the killing.?

Ultimately, Joly¡¯s silence on the ICJ¡¯s orders suggests that Canada has abandoned its commitment to international law, as well as our obligations under the Genocide Convention vis-¨¤-vis the Palestinians. Worse, the government has admitted that it has approved permits for arms exports to Israel since Oct. 7. As such, in her ministerial role, Joly has chosen not to exercise her prerogative to deny arms export permits to Israel during a plausibly genocidal campaign, thus to Israel despite the clear risk that they will be used against Palestinian civilians. In a letter to Joly, more than 30 civil society organizations have that ¡°Canada cannot at the same time signal support for the ICJ [¡­] while continuing to arm those whom the ICJ has ruled are plausibly accused of genocide."

International Development Minister Ahmed Hussen - On the same day that the ICJ ruled that Israel must increase humanitarian access to Gaza to prevent genocide, Minister Hussen announced an indefinite suspension of humanitarian aid to UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestine refugees. This reckless decision was a knee-jerk reaction to unproven Israeli claims about a few of the agency¡¯s employees, collectively punishing the 2 million people in Gaza (and four million other Palestinian refugees) who rely on the agency as a lifeline. Following Canada¡¯s announcement, UNRWA ?that its operations will collapse if its funding is not resumed, and and warned of catastrophe because of this decision.

Thankfully, Hussen has now restored Canadian funding to UNRWA.? Now Hussen must work within Cabinet to ensure that Canada pressures Israel to allow the free flow of humanitarian aid to Gaza civilians. Palestinians in Gaza increasingly face starvation, dehydration, malnutrition and the danger of epidemics of communicable disease.? Canada's inaction risks leading to mass deaths even after a ceasefire is obtained.?

Last week, Hussen suggested that Canada may join allies and try to airdrop aid into Gaza.? While any aid is welcome, to meet the current humanitarian needs in Gaza.? In fact, Canadian talk of "air drops" is a cynical "public relations" campaign.? If Canada plans to coordinate air drops into Gaza with Israel, it should have the guts to demand that Israel allow trucks to deliver aid to Gaza.? Airdrops can provide only a fraction of the aid needed in Gaza, and provide haphazard delivery to a desperate population.? Hussen's job at this point should be to insist that Israel immediately allow ground-based aid delivery to Gaza to resume at pre-Oct. 7 levels.

Immigration Minister Marc Miller ¨C Despite the massive early death toll of Palestinian civilians, it took Minister Miller over three months to launch a temporary visa program to help Palestinian-Canadian families reunite with loved ones in Gaza.? Once opened for applications, the program was found to present huge unnecessary barriers and restrictions which limit its humanitarian potential. The visa program for Gaza is reportedly one of the , with an arbitrary cap of 1,000 people causing panic and competition among Palestinian Canadians who are trying to get their loved ones out. Moreover, the application process requires , imposing a tremendous and unreasonable burden on displaced people in a war zone. Making this worse, from Minister Miller and his colleagues indicated that these restrictions are motivated by a perception that the loved ones of Palestinian Canadians are an inherent security threat.

Ultimately, Miller¡¯s visa program fails to provide the aid and protections necessary to a population facing genocide who have relatives in Canada. The limitations built into this program, and the attitude of Miller and his colleagues have resulted in a program that is entirely out-of-touch with the realities of a genocide, causes unnecessary hardship, and reflects a clear double standard when compared with similar programs assisting other populations

If these Ministers are not able to step up in this moment of extreme crisis and redress these errors, they should step aside.

Thank you!

Thank you for supporting this campaign. Every additional voice makes a difference! If you believe in what CJPME is doing to influence the media, politicians and the public, please consider making a to CJPME.? Our work depends entirely on private donations. are especially helpful, as they sustain our ongoing work and make it easier for us to strategize for the future. If you don't like to donate by credit card, you may donate , over the phone (438-380-5410), or complete and .

Warmest regards,

Tom, Michael, Jason, Lynn, Alex, Fatima, Rose, Wissam and the rest of the CJPME team (CJPME Email)

?

?


Cher(¨¨re) Rob,

Il y a quelques heures, le ministre canadien du d¨¦veloppement international, Ahmed Hussen, a annonc¨¦ que , l'agence d'aide des Nations unies pour les r¨¦fugi¨¦s palestiniens. Il s'agit d'une victoire extr¨ºmement importante, qui pourrait faire la diff¨¦rence entre la vie et la mort pour des millions de Palestiniens ! NOUS REMERCIONS TOUS CEUX qui ont particip¨¦ ¨¤ en faveur du r¨¦tablissement du financement canadien,?et nous remercions Hussen d'avoir ¨¦cout¨¦ les Canadiens !

Cette d¨¦cision constitue un revirement politique extr¨ºmement important pour le gouvernement canadien, qui a de l'UNRWA le 26 janvier sur la base d'accusations isra¨¦liennes non fond¨¦es ¨¤ l'encontre d'une poign¨¦e d'employ¨¦s de l'UNRWA. En d¨¦pit de tout bon sens, cette r¨¦duction a ¨¦t¨¦ annonc¨¦e le jour m¨ºme o¨´ la Cour mondiale a conclu qu'Isra?l commettait "plausiblement" un g¨¦nocide ¨¤ Gaza.

M¨ºme si le Canada a r¨¦tabli le financement de l'UNRWA, il peut encore faire davantage pour qu'Isra?l permette ¨¤ l'aide humanitaire de circuler librement vers les Palestiniens de Gaza ! D'autres ministres refusent de prendre d'autres mesures importantes pour aider les Palestiniens de Gaza. La vie des Palestiniens est toujours gravement menac¨¦e !

Il y a deux semaines, CJPMO et plus de 125 autres organisations ont sign¨¦ appelant les ministres Joly, Hussen et Miller ¨¤ "ARR?TER LE G?NOCIDE OU D?MISSIONNER". Malheureusement, cet imp¨¦ratif demeure, car chaque ministre n'est pas intervenu dans le g¨¦nocide en cours ¨¤ Gaza, ou a m¨ºme aggrav¨¦ la situation :

  • La ministre des affaires ¨¦trang¨¨res, M¨¦lanie Joly, a r¨¦sist¨¦ aux appels au cessez-le-feu, a refus¨¦ de condamner la violence d'Isra?l contre les Palestiniens et a ignor¨¦ la conclusion de la Cour mondiale selon laquelle il existe un g¨¦nocide ??plausible ? ¨¤ Gaza ;
  • Heureusement, le ministre du d¨¦veloppement international Ahmed Hussen a r¨¦tabli le financement de l'UNRWA. Nous attendons maintenant de lui qu'il travaille au sein du cabinet pour faire pression sur Isra?l afin qu'il autorise l'entr¨¦e des fonds dans la bande de Gaza, malgr¨¦ les conditions de vie mena?antes auxquelles est confront¨¦e la population civile de Gaza;
  • Le ministre de l'immigration Marc Miller a retard¨¦ un programme de visas temporaires pour les parents de Canadiens vivant ¨¤ Gaza, et a finalement mis en place un programme raciste avec des places limit¨¦es et des exigences de demande d¨¦raisonnables pour les personnes se trouvant dans une zone de guerre.

Nous ne pouvons accepter que cela soit l'h¨¦ritage du Canada au milieu du g¨¦nocide qui se d¨¦roule sous nos yeux ¨¤ Gaza. Si ces ministres ne peuvent pas intervenir en ce moment de crise extr¨ºme et r¨¦parer ces erreurs, ils doivent se retirer.

pour dire ¨¤ ces ministres : M¨ºme si vous avez d¨¦j¨¤ particip¨¦ ¨¤ cet appel, Votre courriel est envoy¨¦ ¨¤ ces ministres, ainsi qu'¨¤ votre propre d¨¦put¨¦. Ils doivent sentir la chaleur !

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Malgr¨¦ l'urgence du g¨¦nocide en cours ¨¤ Gaza, les ministres Joly, Hussen et Miller ont chacun annonc¨¦ des d¨¦cisions qui refl¨¨tent peu de consid¨¦ration pour la vie des Palestiniens ou le droit international, et ont montr¨¦ tr¨¨s peu de conscience de la situation concernant l'impact de leurs d¨¦cisions. En 1) transf¨¦rant des armes dans un contexte de g¨¦nocide et 2) en retirant sciemment leur soutien ¨¤ l'infrastructure humanitaire de Gaza, les actions des ministres Joly et Hussen violent directement les ordres de la CIJ visant ¨¤ pr¨¦venir le g¨¦nocide. Pendant ce temps, le ministre Miller a mis en place des barri¨¨res inutiles qui compliquent la capacit¨¦ des proches des Canadiens ¨¤ fuir un contexte de violence g¨¦nocidaire.

M¨¦lanie Joly, ministre des Affaires ¨¦trang¨¨res - L'absence de r¨¦action de la ministre Joly ¨¤ la d¨¦cision initiale de la CIJ sur la plausibilit¨¦ d'un g¨¦nocide ¨¤ Gaza montre que le Canada ne prend pas au s¨¦rieux la menace catastrophique qui p¨¨se sur la vie humaine. Avant la d¨¦cision, Mme Joly a exprim¨¦ son soutien ¨¤ la Cour elle-m¨ºme, mais a refus¨¦ de prendre une position claire sur la requ¨ºte de l'Afrique du Sud, et a m¨ºme ses ? pr¨¦misses ?. Lorsqu'on lui a demand¨¦ de clarifier sa position, Mme Joly a r¨¦pondu aux questions , comme si elle et le gouvernement voulaient d¨¦lib¨¦r¨¦ment manquer de clart¨¦. Lorsque la CIJ a ¨¦mis des mesures provisoires ordonnant ¨¤ Isra?l de prendre des mesures pour pr¨¦venir le g¨¦nocide, la Mme Joly n'a pas exprim¨¦ son soutien aux mesures ni appel¨¦ Isra?l ¨¤ se conformer ¨¤ la d¨¦cision. Plut?t que de reconna?tre la gravit¨¦ de la d¨¦cision provisoire de la CIJ, sa r¨¦ponse laissait entendre qu'avant d'agir, le Canada devait attendre la d¨¦cision ? finale ? de la CIJ sur le g¨¦nocide - ce qui pourrait prendre des ann¨¦es. Cette r¨¦ponse t¨¦moigne d'une indiff¨¦rence suffisante face aux massacres de Palestiniens ¨¤ grande ¨¦chelle.

En fin de compte, le silence de Mme Joly sur les ordonnances de la CIJ sugg¨¨re que le Canada a abandonn¨¦ son engagement envers le droit international, ainsi que nos obligations en vertu de la Convention sur le g¨¦nocide ¨¤ l'¨¦gard des Palestiniens. Pire encore, le gouvernement a admis avoir approuv¨¦ des permis d'exportation d'armes vers Isra?l depuis le 7 octobre. Ainsi, dans son r?le de ministre, Joly a choisi de ne pas exercer sa pr¨¦rogative de refuser des permis d'exportation d'armes ¨¤ Isra?l pendant une campagne plausiblement g¨¦nocidaire, ¨¤ Isra?l malgr¨¦ le risque ¨¦vident qu'ils soient utilis¨¦s contre des civils palestiniens. Dans une lettre adress¨¦e ¨¤ Mme Joly, plus de 30 organisations de la soci¨¦t¨¦ civile ont que ? le Canada ne peut pas ¨¤ la fois manifester son soutien ¨¤ la CIJ [...] tout en continuant ¨¤ armer ceux qui, selon la CIJ, sont plausiblement accus¨¦s de g¨¦nocide ?.

Ahmed Hussen, ministre du d¨¦veloppement international - Le jour m¨ºme o¨´ la CIJ a statu¨¦ qu'Isra?l devait accro?tre l'acc¨¨s humanitaire ¨¤ Gaza pour emp¨ºcher un g¨¦nocide, le ministre Hussen a annonc¨¦ la suspension pour une dur¨¦e ind¨¦termin¨¦e de l'aide humanitaire ¨¤ l'UNRWA, l'agence des Nations unies pour les r¨¦fugi¨¦s palestiniens. Cette d¨¦cision irr¨¦fl¨¦chie ¨¦tait une r¨¦action impulsive ¨¤ des all¨¦gations isra¨¦liennes non prouv¨¦es concernant quelques employ¨¦s de l'agence, punissant collectivement les 2 millions de personnes ¨¤ Gaza (et les 4 millions d'autres r¨¦fugi¨¦s palestiniens) qui d¨¦pendent de l'agence comme d'une bou¨¦e de sauvetage. Depuis l'annonce du Canada, l'UNRWA que ses op¨¦rations s'effondreront si son financement n'est pas r¨¦tabli, et les et les mettent en garde contre une catastrophe due ¨¤ cette d¨¦cision.

Heureusement, M. Hussen a r¨¦tabli le financement canadien de l'UNRWA. Il doit maintenant travailler au sein du Cabinet pour s'assurer que le Canada fasse pression sur Isra?l afin de permettre la libre circulation de l'aide humanitaire aux civils de Gaza. Les Palestiniens de Gaza sont de plus en plus confront¨¦s ¨¤ la famine, ¨¤ la d¨¦shydratation, ¨¤ la malnutrition et au risque d'¨¦pid¨¦mies de maladies transmissibles. L'inaction du Canada risque d'entra?ner des morts massives m¨ºme apr¨¨s l'obtention d'un cessez-le-feu.

La semaine derni¨¨re, M. Hussen a laiss¨¦ entendre que le Canada pourrait se joindre ¨¤ ses alli¨¦s et tenter de parachuter de l'aide ¨¤ Gaza. Bien que toute aide soit la bienvenue, cette solution est pour r¨¦pondre aux besoins humanitaires actuels de Gaza. En fait, le discours canadien sur les "parachutages" n'est qu'une campagne cynique de "relations publiques". Si le Canada envisage de coordonner les parachutages a¨¦riens vers Gaza avec Isra?l, il devrait avoir le courage d'exiger d'Isra?l qu'il autorise les camions ¨¤ acheminer l'aide ¨¤ Gaza. Les parachutages ne peuvent fournir qu'une fraction de l'aide n¨¦cessaire ¨¤ Gaza, et leur livraison ¨¤ une population d¨¦sesp¨¦r¨¦e se fait au hasard. ? ce stade, le travail de M. Hussen devrait consister ¨¤ insister pour qu'Isra?l autorise imm¨¦diatement la reprise de l'acheminement de l'aide terrestre ¨¤ Gaza au niveau d'avant le 7 octobre.

Ministre de l'Immigration Marc Miller - Malgr¨¦ le nombre massif de civils palestiniens tu¨¦s, il a fallu plus de trois mois au ministre Miller pour lancer un programme de visas temporaires afin d'aider les familles canado-palestiniennes ¨¤ retrouver leurs proches dans la bande de Gaza.? Une fois ouvert aux demandes, le programme s'est av¨¦r¨¦ pr¨¦senter d'¨¦normes barri¨¨res et restrictions inutiles qui limitent son potentiel humanitaire. Le programme de visas pour Gaza serait l'un des , avec un plafond arbitraire de 1 000 personnes qui provoque la panique et la concurrence parmi les Canadiens d'origine palestinienne qui tentent de faire sortir leurs proches. En outre, le processus de demande exige des , imposant un fardeau ¨¦norme et d¨¦raisonnable aux personnes d¨¦plac¨¦es dans une zone de guerre. Pour ne rien arranger, les du ministre Miller et de ses coll¨¨gues indiquent que ces restrictions sont motiv¨¦es par l'id¨¦e que les proches des Canadiens d'origine palestinienne constituent une menace inh¨¦rente pour la s¨¦curit¨¦.?

En fin de compte, le programme de visa de Miller ne fournit pas l'aide et les protections n¨¦cessaires ¨¤ une population confront¨¦e ¨¤ un g¨¦nocide et qui a des parents au Canada. Les limites de ce programme et l'attitude de M. Miller et de ses coll¨¨gues ont abouti ¨¤ un programme qui est totalement d¨¦connect¨¦ des r¨¦alit¨¦s d'un g¨¦nocide, qui cause des difficult¨¦s inutiles et qui refl¨¨te clairement une politique de deux poids deux mesures par rapport ¨¤ des programmes similaires destin¨¦s ¨¤ d'autres populations.

Si ces ministres ne sont pas en mesure d'intervenir en ce moment de crise extr¨ºme et de corriger ces erreurs, ils devraient se retirer.

Merci de votre attention

Merci de soutenir cette campagne. Chaque voix suppl¨¦mentaire fait la diff¨¦rence ! Si vous croyez en ce que CJPME fait pour influencer les m¨¦dias, les politiciens et le public, veuillez envisager de??financier ¨¤ CJPMO.?Notre travail d¨¦pend enti¨¨rement des dons priv¨¦s. Les??sont particuli¨¨rement utiles, car ils soutiennent notre travail en cours et nous permettent d'¨¦laborer des strat¨¦gies pour l'avenir. Si vous n'aimez pas faire un don par carte de cr¨¦dit, nous pouvons recevoir des virements , par t¨¦l¨¦phone (438-380-5410), ou remplir et envoyer par la poste. Nous vous remercions !

Salutations chaleureuses,

Tom, Michael, Jason, Lynn, Alex, Fatima, Rose, Wissam et le reste de l'¨¦quipe CJPMO

?

?

Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East
CJPME / CJPMO ¡¤ 580 Sainte-Croix Ave, Suite 060, Montreal, QC, H4L 3X5
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Illusions of aid to Gaza

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-listening-post/2024/3/9/the-airdrops-optics-of-urgency-illusions-of-aid


Al Jazeera 'The Take'

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/podcasts/2024/3/7/the-take-gazas-starvation-looms-over-bidens-state-of-the-union-address


Re: Low Down Letters

 

Thanks Rob, that's good to hear.


On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 05:39:01 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


Paula has a letter in this issue of the Low Down - a must-read
Also excellent Steve Harris' letter


Low Down Letters

 

Paula has a letter in this issue of the Low Down - a must-read
Also excellent Steve Harris' letter


BTW - One of our free spech supporters just won a Governer General's Art award

 



BTW one of our free speech supporters just won a Governor General's Arts award from the Canada Council.

We are in prestigiuos company - her work is amazing and it speaks to issues of socila justice




Here was her post:

?Dominique Blain?

Jan 26???#13030???

?

I take note of the Admins' reminder of the initial purpose of this group and will abide by it.

However, let me point out that ignoring difficult topics will not necessarily make us a stronger community; respectful and thoughtful dialogue will, regardless of topics.?

I don't expect to always agree or feel comfortable with everyone's ideas, nor do I think I own the truth. The point is precisely about broadening my understanding and perspective based on informed and balanced viewpoints. I appreciated the views some people expressed on the Israel-Hamas war in that regards - not that I relish reading about wars every morning!

Be well,
Dominique


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

Thanks?Paola,

Yes, with full respect I was trying to explain the reality of this project - so no one has false illusions about its measure of success.
I have been working on many angles and listening to all the feedback that I can collect so I welcome your insights and thank?you for them.

Trust me I'm no ego freak here - it is hard to promote a collective idea or space without ego and ownership issues becoming involved. We are all human with all the facilities?that that implies.
Let's try something and see what?happens.? Maybe we can give voice to others?? Maybe they prefer to remain silent?? "More's the pity" then.

Stay tuned...the wheel are turning...Rob


On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 8:52?AM paola derose via <paoladr=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Rob, I wasn't trying to dissuade you. Or offering conclusions... just pondering on what some of the challenges could be. I certainly feel enriched by the contacts I have made as a result of the WN controversy, and I hope the new forum has that effect, for me and for others. I look forward to seeing what you will come up with. As I said, not a techie, but happy to help out a bit. Cheers, Paola?


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

Hi Rob, I wasn't trying to dissuade you. Or offering conclusions... just pondering on what some of the challenges could be. I certainly feel enriched by the contacts I have made as a result of the WN controversy, and I hope the new forum has that effect, for me and for others. I look forward to seeing what you will come up with. As I said, not a techie, but happy to help out a bit. Cheers, Paola?


Re: Some addresses to track down

 

thnx Sean - that brings it to 49 contacts and counting


On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 7:30?PM sean butler via <seanthesea=[email protected]> wrote:
Steve Harris: steveh123@...

On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 11:06:14 AM EST, Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:


Hi again Rob,

I couldn't find an email for Steve Harris, I hope you find one.? I liked his post to the WF news, and even saved it, but without his email.
Steve Harris vs John Kingsley below, who is being disrespectful??

?

Re: Silence in the Hills

John Kingsley

Steve,

Just spend the 15 minutes to fill out the on-line forms to create a new email list.
Do that and in perhaps in 50 years people will look back and remember how Steve Harris saved democracy in the Hills.

There is nothing stopping you from creating the new list.
But it seems like you can't take that step.....? for some reason.

?

Silence in the Hills

Steve Harris??

It's upsetting that one person cries out "Anti-Semitism" and free speech come to a halt in the Wakefield News.

Is it?"Anti-Christian" to criticize the right wing evangelists that guide and support Donald Trump??

The current government in Israel is as fanatical and as off the course of Judaism as the Trump supporters are off the course of Christianity.

There are many Jewish voices in Canada?such as Gabor & Rae Mat¨¦, Arthur Milner and Avi Lewis?that are very critical of current Israeli government actions.

Today, there is a wonderful summary in this forum of one person's reasons for wanting to exclude open discussions. The writer doesn't want to see nuttin about nuttin...

This idea that non-Wakefield issues are not welcome here reminds me sadly of our country's attitude in 1939 to the ship the "St. Louis", packed with Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany. Our country refused entry to that ship. We didn't have much discussion and we didn't want to get involved.?

Not wanting to know, discuss and contemplate difficult issues nearly always has unfortunate consequences...

Steve?


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 05:29:02 p.m. EST, Edythe Butler <edythebutler@...> wrote:


Here's a few Rob:

Dominique Blain? db4013@...
Andrew Park????Anditopark@...
Sarah Little????Sarahlittle@...


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 03:20:00 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


I have some names of supporters but not their emails.

Do you know the emaill addresses?
And Vagner maybe you have some names to add.

These come from WFN Replies to Sender...

The links below will lead you to the post in WFN ¨C if you have access ¨C are still a member ¨C then you can Reply to Sender with a message
But it would be nice to get their email addresses.

?

Andrew Park Andrew Park

Delphine Bishop? Delphine Bishop

Flower Marie Lunn F M Lunn

Jonathan Wright ?Jonathan Wright?

Rob McCart Rob McCart

?

Miriam Ponette Miriam Ponette

Peter Gillies peteragillies

Sarah Little Sarah Little

?

Steve Harris Steve Harris

?

Yvette Halpin Yvette Halpin


Re: Some addresses to track down

 

Steve Harris: steveh123@...

On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 11:06:14 AM EST, Edythe Butler via groups.io <edythebutler@...> wrote:


Hi again Rob,

I couldn't find an email for Steve Harris, I hope you find one.? I liked his post to the WF news, and even saved it, but without his email.
Steve Harris vs John Kingsley below, who is being disrespectful??

?

Re: Silence in the Hills

John Kingsley

Steve,

Just spend the 15 minutes to fill out the on-line forms to create a new email list.
Do that and in perhaps in 50 years people will look back and remember how Steve Harris saved democracy in the Hills.

There is nothing stopping you from creating the new list.
But it seems like you can't take that step.....? for some reason.

?

Silence in the Hills

Steve Harris??

It's upsetting that one person cries out "Anti-Semitism" and free speech come to a halt in the Wakefield News.

Is it?"Anti-Christian" to criticize the right wing evangelists that guide and support Donald Trump??

The current government in Israel is as fanatical and as off the course of Judaism as the Trump supporters are off the course of Christianity.

There are many Jewish voices in Canada?such as Gabor & Rae Mat¨¦, Arthur Milner and Avi Lewis?that are very critical of current Israeli government actions.

Today, there is a wonderful summary in this forum of one person's reasons for wanting to exclude open discussions. The writer doesn't want to see nuttin about nuttin...

This idea that non-Wakefield issues are not welcome here reminds me sadly of our country's attitude in 1939 to the ship the "St. Louis", packed with Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany. Our country refused entry to that ship. We didn't have much discussion and we didn't want to get involved.?

Not wanting to know, discuss and contemplate difficult issues nearly always has unfortunate consequences...

Steve?


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 05:29:02 p.m. EST, Edythe Butler <edythebutler@...> wrote:


Here's a few Rob:

Corinnemce@...
Dominique Blain? db4013@...
Floramarialuna@...
Andrew Park????Anditopark@...
Sarah Little????Sarahlittle@...


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 03:20:00 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


I have some names of supporters but not their emails.

Do you know the emaill addresses?
And Vagner maybe you have some names to add.

These come from WFN Replies to Sender...

The links below will lead you to the post in WFN ¨C if you have access ¨C are still a member ¨C then you can Reply to Sender with a message
But it would be nice to get their email addresses.

?

Andrew Park Andrew Park

Delphine Bishop? Delphine Bishop

Flower Marie Lunn F M Lunn

Jonathan Wright ?Jonathan Wright?

Rob McCart Rob McCart

?

Miriam Ponette Miriam Ponette

Peter Gillies peteragillies

Sarah Little Sarah Little

?

Steve Harris Steve Harris

?

Yvette Halpin Yvette Halpin


Re: Some addresses to track down

 

Hi again Rob,

I couldn't find an email for Steve Harris, I hope you find one.? I liked his post to the WF news, and even saved it, but without his email.
Steve Harris vs John Kingsley below, who is being disrespectful??

?

Re: Silence in the Hills

John Kingsley

Steve,

Just spend the 15 minutes to fill out the on-line forms to create a new email list.
Do that and in perhaps in 50 years people will look back and remember how Steve Harris saved democracy in the Hills.

There is nothing stopping you from creating the new list.
But it seems like you can't take that step.....? for some reason.

?

Silence in the Hills

Steve Harris??

It's upsetting that one person cries out "Anti-Semitism" and free speech come to a halt in the Wakefield News.

Is it?"Anti-Christian" to criticize the right wing evangelists that guide and support Donald Trump??

The current government in Israel is as fanatical and as off the course of Judaism as the Trump supporters are off the course of Christianity.

There are many Jewish voices in Canada?such as Gabor & Rae Mat¨¦, Arthur Milner and Avi Lewis?that are very critical of current Israeli government actions.

Today, there is a wonderful summary in this forum of one person's reasons for wanting to exclude open discussions. The writer doesn't want to see nuttin about nuttin...

This idea that non-Wakefield issues are not welcome here reminds me sadly of our country's attitude in 1939 to the ship the "St. Louis", packed with Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany. Our country refused entry to that ship. We didn't have much discussion and we didn't want to get involved.?

Not wanting to know, discuss and contemplate difficult issues nearly always has unfortunate consequences...

Steve?


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 05:29:02 p.m. EST, Edythe Butler <edythebutler@...> wrote:


Here's a few Rob:

Corinnemce@...
Dominique Blain? db4013@...
Floramarialuna@...
Andrew Park????Anditopark@...
Sarah Little????Sarahlittle@...


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 03:20:00 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


I have some names of supporters but not their emails.

Do you know the emaill addresses?
And Vagner maybe you have some names to add.

These come from WFN Replies to Sender...

The links below will lead you to the post in WFN ¨C if you have access ¨C are still a member ¨C then you can Reply to Sender with a message
But it would be nice to get their email addresses.

?

Andrew Park Andrew Park

Delphine Bishop? Delphine Bishop

Flower Marie Lunn F M Lunn

Jonathan Wright ?Jonathan Wright?

Rob McCart Rob McCart

?

Miriam Ponette Miriam Ponette

Peter Gillies peteragillies

Sarah Little Sarah Little

?

Steve Harris Steve Harris

?

Yvette Halpin Yvette Halpin


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

Hi Paola,

Trust me I have thought about the points that you have raised and I have come to some conclusions that I am acting on.
Since there is no place for those voices/topics we either try and create one or we censor ourselves.

The success however one defines it will be based on the communiity response and I'm mature enough to know if my voice is in a minority without being insulted.
The links to global matters and social justice issues were important to some people and those posts informed people and engaged them in actions.?
Those posts also did create discussions - publicly online, by private messaging and in face to face dialogues? - we never would have met each other if it wasn't for our sharing of thoughts - Vagner and I have also begun to meet regularly (although we have known each other before this debacle.? I have made contact with a number of people like Edythe, Sean and many other online and have met with afew of them because of these "conversations" online.
So, respectfully I guess I don't agree with some of your conclusions.

As per the size of membership we will find out how much of a minority that we are as members of a group like this.? I think we have been misled as to our popularity by assuming how many people read or like our views in that population of 900 members on WFN.? Just because you post there does not mean you have an engaged audience of 900. We will have to try and build a commmunity and they decide if they want it.

Anyway for me its is about the principle of free speech and an open forum with topics that are relevant and outside the censorship of WFN.? Its about those qualities not about a reification of numbers or a misinterpratation of a statistic - who know how many of the 900 are actually reading anything?? Some of them may not even be alive or in the region anymore?? The number is a phantom.

I am willing to work at it and give it a good try.? If it fails (by someone's definition) I can handle that but it won't be because I didn't try.? It will inform me of where I live and what is important to some people.
I never thought that I was of the majority dominant view but that doesn't mean I have to censor myself.

I have passed the point of analyzing and am now acting.

Stay tuned...Rob


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

Hi all,

sorry for the delayed contribution. I'm reading this on my phone which is perhaps not the best thing to do as that's hard to follow the trail of the conversation. Not sure if it's better on the computer but I haven't been on the computer of late.

I understand why Rob wants to create a new forum, and I believe there should be a forum for the sorts of things that have been banned. It's interesting to see what is still getting through. Like the post yesterday about the UN emergency service, and ilse's regular posts about the peace vigil.

I'm going to throw out a few thoughts about the new forum, and it's challenges, that are perhaps not well thought through.?

1) The posts that were banned from the WN were not really discussions initially. They were links to petitions, assemblies and news sources. The discussions only got going when there was push back about those earlier posts. From what I have seen of the WN, it doesn't seem to be used for discussion. It's more for information.

I believe it should be a place for all information, but seems the admin are not going to allow that. It's really not clear how they are deciding what should be posted and what should not be. Currently, it might be the post of certain people that are automatically disallowed...?

Would a new forum contain predominantly ?information posts (understanding that occasionally some back-and-forth might occur) or is the intent to create a discussion forum? Personally, I'm not a big fan of an online discussion. I'd rather just talk to people.

2) As already noted, the membership of a new forum is initially going to be small, so the information posted will not reach many people.?

3) Small membership?also means that not much information will be posted.Where content of the new forum is concerned, I assume that the intention is not to have anyone (Or any group ) proactively generating content... be it news, information or discussion. ?It would be more organic, like the current WN, where members post the occasional thing which interests them ?and which they feel would interest others.?

The amount of posting would probably fluctuate depending on what is going on in the world and in the community at any given time. But with a small membership, there might be so little content that the forum seems marginal and static¡­ And this could make it harder to attract new membership.


Not being very tech savvy, and having never been part of running a forum such as the one that is proposed, I don't really know how much work is involved, and what roles need to be filled. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but I'd be willing to pitch in a bit. That said , I do like to limit my screen time.

cheers, Paola


Re: Some addresses to track down

 

Here's a few Rob:

Corinnemce@...
Dominique Blain? db4013@...
Floramarialuna@...
Andrew Park????Anditopark@...
Sarah Little????Sarahlittle@...


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 03:20:00 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


I have some names of supporters but not their emails.

Do you know the emaill addresses?
And Vagner maybe you have some names to add.

These come from WFN Replies to Sender...

The links below will lead you to the post in WFN ¨C if you have access ¨C are still a member ¨C then you can Reply to Sender with a message
But it would be nice to get their email addresses.

?

Andrew Park Andrew Park

Delphine Bishop? Delphine Bishop

Flower Marie Lunn F M Lunn

Jonathan Wright ?Jonathan Wright?

Rob McCart Rob McCart

?

Miriam Ponette Miriam Ponette

Peter Gillies peteragillies

Sarah Little Sarah Little

?

Steve Harris Steve Harris

?

Yvette Halpin Yvette Halpin


Some addresses to track down

 

I have some names of supporters but not their emails.

Do you know the emaill addresses?
And Vagner maybe you have some names to add.

These come from WFN Replies to Sender...

The links below will lead you to the post in WFN ¨C if you have access ¨C are still a member ¨C then you can Reply to Sender with a message
But it would be nice to get their email addresses.

?

Andrew Park Andrew Park

Delphine Bishop? Delphine Bishop

Flower Marie Lunn F M Lunn

Jonathan Wright ?Jonathan Wright?

Rob McCart Rob McCart

?

Miriam Ponette Miriam Ponette

Peter Gillies peteragillies

Sarah Little Sarah Little

?

Steve Harris Steve Harris

?

Yvette Halpin Yvette Halpin


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

You are way ahead of us Rob, thanks.


On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 05:39:22 a.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


I have assembled a list of positive supporters?from WFN (I copied?all those posts into a file earlier)and Paula's and my private emails - there?are over 30 - I know of a few others but don't know their?email addresses.

If you guys got any private emails of support could you collect them into a list - same for supporters?from the blogs.
I'll combine the lists.

I'm going to be busy today?and?tonight - I'll have more time tomorrow


On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 12:19?AM Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:
I can look back at messages posted to the WF news, if I have access to this page:?[email protected] | Messages
However that will not show me the private messages of support each of you, and Paula have received regarding your posts.?


On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 09:47:27 p.m. EST, sean butler via <seanthesea=[email protected]> wrote:


One thing I've been thinking might be useful, but haven't had the time yet, would be to look back at all the messages posted in favour of a more open WF news, take note of who they were, and write them all. We could ask them all to sign on to a letter or protest to the admins, if we still feel that has any value. Or we could simply invite all of them to the new list.

I realize Rob and Edythe no longer have access to the list archives, but if one of you want to take this on, I could send you my login credentials.

Also, at the very minimum, should we invite the people on Edythe's list who have been banned or moderated to the Wakeyleaks list, to get their input on this discussion?


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

I have assembled a list of positive supporters?from WFN (I copied?all those posts into a file earlier)and Paula's and my private emails - there?are over 30 - I know of a few others but don't know their?email addresses.

If you guys got any private emails of support could you collect them into a list - same for supporters?from the blogs.
I'll combine the lists.

I'm going to be busy today?and?tonight - I'll have more time tomorrow


On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 12:19?AM Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:
I can look back at messages posted to the WF news, if I have access to this page:?[email protected] | Messages
However that will not show me the private messages of support each of you, and Paula have received regarding your posts.?


On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 09:47:27 p.m. EST, sean butler via <seanthesea=[email protected]> wrote:


One thing I've been thinking might be useful, but haven't had the time yet, would be to look back at all the messages posted in favour of a more open WF news, take note of who they were, and write them all. We could ask them all to sign on to a letter or protest to the admins, if we still feel that has any value. Or we could simply invite all of them to the new list.

I realize Rob and Edythe no longer have access to the list archives, but if one of you want to take this on, I could send you my login credentials.

Also, at the very minimum, should we invite the people on Edythe's list who have been banned or moderated to the Wakeyleaks list, to get their input on this discussion?


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

I can look back at messages posted to the WF news, if I have access to this page:?[email protected] | Messages
However that will not show me the private messages of support each of you, and Paula have received regarding your posts.?


On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 09:47:27 p.m. EST, sean butler via groups.io <seanthesea@...> wrote:


One thing I've been thinking might be useful, but haven't had the time yet, would be to look back at all the messages posted in favour of a more open WF news, take note of who they were, and write them all. We could ask them all to sign on to a letter or protest to the admins, if we still feel that has any value. Or we could simply invite all of them to the new list.

I realize Rob and Edythe no longer have access to the list archives, but if one of you want to take this on, I could send you my login credentials.

Also, at the very minimum, should we invite the people on Edythe's list who have been banned or moderated to the Wakeyleaks list, to get their input on this discussion?


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

One thing I've been thinking might be useful, but haven't had the time yet, would be to look back at all the messages posted in favour of a more open WF news, take note of who they were, and write them all. We could ask them all to sign on to a letter or protest to the admins, if we still feel that has any value. Or we could simply invite all of them to the new list.

I realize Rob and Edythe no longer have access to the list archives, but if one of you want to take this on, I could send you my login credentials.

Also, at the very minimum, should we invite the people on Edythe's list who have been banned or moderated to the Wakeyleaks list, to get their input on this discussion?


Re: WakeyLeaks and The-Bridge

 

Hi Edythe,

I do not think that they are incorrigible at all - I know that Tim is a passionate supporter of peace in Palestine by his activity on FaceBook.
This is not personal - it is about the policies, actions and decisions that they have made & the absence of rationale?for their actions.

They have listened?to Phil and others and have dug a hole?that they cannot get out of - it has become a trench for them.
They are now unable to change?position and open up the forum to its previous freedom because of the actions they took and the people who were encouraged?by those actions.
If this community is divided (as all communities?are at any time on a given subject) it is not because of the posts that have been banned but because the censorship decisions have cut it in two like a cleaver.

I will not meet with them - there is no reason to?meet - they can fix the problem?by returning the forum to how it was - it was working fine - they have the power - they need the courage - we have informed them and given?them countless opportunities to be fair - then they ban us!

They never should have published Phil's post as it was or Kingsley's in the form it was written as a call to banish his "10 commandments of silence" - they had no backbone then and they remain invertebrate.

I recommend that you sign up to a new forum where you can learn and share topics important?to you - TRUST ME IT'S COMING!


On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 1:50?PM Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:
Rob, Vagner, Sean,

Do you think all efforts have been exhausted in trying to reform the current WF news???Not that I want to take a one person, in person, delegation to them about their enforcement of list rules, I would let it go if I am the only one.

I think discussion with the Admins has all been via email so far right?? If so, it's not the best medium for dispute resolution, I don't think.? All three of you seem sure that they are incorrigible.? I do not know them at all, never met either of them so I have no image of what they are like.? The rest of you all know them, I presume?

bye for now,
edythe


On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 12:30:55 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


You're right Edythe,

But I think that we have to resist reliving those skirmishes and build a positive space free from that kind of censorship.

On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 11:16?AM Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:
I know Rob and its a real problem.? And, if I was a usual casual reader of the WF news (as I mostly am) I might have missed the skirmishes that resulted in some voices being censored. And, because of the total lack of transparency by the Admins, subscribed members (and banned people alike) are not aware when someone is banned or the reason for the banning. So, I imagine that most of the 900 have gone on their merry way without thinking about this issue much at all.?

edythe
? ?

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 11:01:17 a.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


That list is all I know of - BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY?EVERYONE ON THE WF NEWS IS SUBJECT?TO ARBITRARY?CENSORSHIP ON A WIDE RANGE?OF ISSUES - behave or be silenced in one way or another!


On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 10:56?AM Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:
All I know is that re the WF news -?

Rob is banned
I am banned
Sean is banned, but has a business email still subscribed
Paula unsubscribed?
Vagner is monitored?
Paola is monitored

Do you know of others who were banned as well for questioning the Admins?? If not and this is it, we are a tiny minority.? But as Rob points out, the demographic of those subscribed to the WF news may be aging, and there could be more younger people out there who would gravitate to a new newsletter.

edythe


On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 07:15:17 a.m. EST, Vagner Castilho <vagcast@...> wrote:


i don't?think a new forum is a bad idea, but my concerns?remain about what we will accomplish by opening up our own forum.? the wakefield news currently has over 900 members and was a great place to raise the issues we were raising because it captured a diverse audience.? how many people do we realistically think will migrate?over to a new platform?? i'd be surprised if 100 people came over and no doubt they would be those who are sympathetic to our cause/plight. hopefully i'm wrong, but that is my sense judging by how quickly this?has blown over despite Sean and I sharing our experiences.? if our goal is not for it to become an echo chamber of those who think like us then we would need a long term strategy to slowly bring people over.? ? sadly in the interim there will be no broader platform to discuss these important issues.? the wakefield news has reverted to a simple buy/sell, events etc forum with the occasional non locally written poetry thrown in to remind?us what a joke admin's rules are.? a slap in the face and a reminder of why i have no interest in engaging with this admin in any way moving forward.


On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 11:25?PM sean butler via <seanthesea=[email protected]> wrote:
Not really into that right now. Run with the list. I'm happy to volunteer for it once syrup season is done.


On Sat., 2 Mar. 2024 at 2:41 p.m., robert snikkar
If Sean would like to do that I'll wait to hear the outcome.? What do you think Sean? Vagner?

On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 2:32?PM Edythe Butler via <edythebutler=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for putting so much of your time and effort into this Rob.? Who are the people subscribed at this point?? Yes I will keep this private until you are ready to open it up to others.
Who is subscribed at this point?? Sorry to say,?I won't volunteer to help set up and maintain an online forum, I have poor tech skills.??

I spoke to Sean today and mentioned that before we make the decision to establish a new list, it would be a good idea to try to set up an in person meeting with the WF news Admins, to sit down and discuss this situation.? Anyone they are monitoring now or have already banned could be invited.? Sean said his friend Abby had already suggested this idea too . . .? ?

What do you think?

Edythe


On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 12:04:02 p.m. EST, robert snikkar <snikkar.paintings@...> wrote:


Hi guys,

I want to use WakeyLeaks as our private planning platform.
Please keep these shared ideas within this group until we lauanch a public forum.

We can discuss strategies, draft joint communiques and stage campaigns here.

I have set-up?The-Bridge for an open public platform for community members.
I have rough drafts for launch materials (invitation, mailing list, scope of forum and its complemetary relationship to WFN, code of conduct, guidlines for posting & reporting...)

So many things are happening in the big scary world that members want to share - we need a space for our voices.
I hope to move quickly and launch soon.

Let me know what you think - and what commitments you can consider for the launch or for ongoing operations.
We will need a team of repesentative (rotating?) moderators - men & women - to keep it going
I am willing to spend time on this - but it must be a group thing not an individual thing for the community, of the community & by the community to thrive - that will mean some work to get it going and keep it running
I will park my satire and ego in another place - maybe my own WakeyLeaks podcast - so I don't pollute the community forum with any negativity that I may be perceievd as displaying.

Let me what you want to do.?