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Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

Hi Garry and other particpiants?

sorry for involving me.
You mentioned Argo Navis supports precession and notation (and takes perhaps further corrections).
The SkySafari program also allows some adjustments concerning these corrections.
Even though I do a correct Argo Navis alignment? the cursor in SkySafari differs a bit from object position on display.
I wonder If it is not productive to make double adjustments in both programs and if this even perhaps worsens the pointing accuracy.
Which adjustments suggest you to do in the SkySafari program??

best regards
Bernhard
Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

George I¡¯ll sure give it a try when the weather clears. Right now we are being hit with the remnants of Hurricane Ian

On Sep 30, 2022, at 7:48 PM, George Hilios <ghilios@...> wrote:

?One thing we/I should check is if I'm doing the math right for adjusting the coordinates for a sync operation. One surefire way to tell would be whether the coordinates report the synced coordinates immediately after a sync. Can you tell if that happened here?

I wasn't able to test this feature in the field, and relied on simulators. We had a particularly bad stretch of weather when I implemented this.

Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

One thing we/I should check is if I'm doing the math right for adjusting the coordinates for a sync operation. One surefire way to tell would be whether the coordinates report the synced coordinates immediately after a sync. Can you tell if that happened here?

I wasn't able to test this feature in the field, and relied on simulators. We had a particularly bad stretch of weather when I implemented this.
Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

Thanks all for your response. I am relaying this info to George Helios who is developing the new Servocat driver

Mike
Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

Hi Mike,

For the ServoCAT protocol, Argo Navis expects and transmits coordinates in terms of ICRS (International Celestial Reference System) and expects them to be airless.

ICRS was adopted by the IAU by resolution in the years 2000 and with it J2000 came to an end.

From the year 2000 onwards, the IAU declared all position coordinates are with respect ICRS. There never will be a J2050.

From a practical viewpoint and to answer your question use J2000. The reference frames upon which J2000 and its replacement, ICRS, are within milliarcseconds of each other.

However, software writers should over time deprecate the use of the term J2000 and use the term ICRS.

Argo Navis internally supports precession and notation and will internally transform the RA/d conversions to/from catalog mean place to/from intermediate place.

It also supports refraction correction and will internally transform the RA/d coordinates to/from intermediate place to observed place.

In other words, there is never a use for so-called "JNow".

Though the differences between J2000 and ICRS from a practical viewpoint with respect what we are discussion here are essentially zero, rather than be pedantic, I am attempting to alert the amateur astronomy community that the terms J2000 and JNow, etc. should be regraded as dead and buried, having passed away on 1 Jan 2000. Start saying "ICRS" :)

https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2008ASPC..394..179W&defaultprint=YES&filetype=.pdf

--

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
sales@...
https://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au
Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

I'll wait for Gary Kopff to weigh in ... as the expert - I am pretty sure it does matter - the epoc that is. That stated I can't remember which one is used generally.?

Gary Myers
StellarCAT




------ Original Message ------
From "Dale Eason" <doeason@...>
Date 9/29/2022 6:05:08 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

I would think that does not matter what argo uses because it is told an RA,DEC or equivalent position to go to.? But I don't know really.? Just spouting off. Sorry.

Re: Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

I would think that does not matter what argo uses because it is told an RA,DEC or equivalent position to go to.? But I don't know really.? Just spouting off. Sorry.
Coordinate Epoch for ServoCat/Argo Navis

 

I have been using George Hilios's new Servocat ASCOM driver which works much better with Sharpcap Pro to Plate solve and move the scope. One problem though is that when using Sharpcap's plate solve and re-center feature, the scope goes in the wrong direction and actually moves further away from the target than it was originally as seen in Cartes du Ciel. I verified that the platesolve itself works excellent but something else is amiss. I am starting to think it could be differences in what epoch is being used between the ASCOM driver, Cartes du Ciel and servocat/Argo Navis. George's driver I think defaults to JNow but can be switched to J2000. I suspect that Servocat only moves x degrees based on what Argo tells it so is not really part of the equation. Does anyone know if Argo Navis uses JNow or if it uses J2000?

Mike
Re: Connecting ArgoNavis to ServoCAT failed.

 

Mike,

I've responded to both your emails ... the 2nd response, because it was obvious you didn't get the first, was sent out using a different email address. please check your spam folder.?

Gary Myers
StellarCAT
Re: Connecting ArgoNavis to ServoCAT failed.

 

Hi Mike,

Firstly check the LED on the ServoCAT labelled DSC.

When you first interface Argo Navis and ServoCAT and power the two on, that DSC LED should begin blinking.
The two units have an initial little chit chat with each other and the ServoCAT then blinks the DSC LED to denote that communication
between the two is successful.

After a completed successful star alignment, the DSC LED should go steady ON.

Argo Navis has two serial ports, SERIAL 1 and SERIAL 2. Double check that the cable is plugged into the correct serial port.
Verify that you are using the correct cable to interface between the two. Whilst there are other cables that look similar, they will
almost certainly be wired differently and not work.
Since Argo Navis has two serial ports, you could also configure the "other" port to have a STARTUP of navis and a BAUD rate of 19200,
power the unit OFF, move the cable to the "other" port and then see whether the ServoCAT DSC LED flashes.

Email us if you require further assistance.

--
Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
sales@...
https://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au
Connecting ArgoNavis to ServoCAT failed.

 

For reason I cannot correct, AN will not connect to ServoCAT. ? All was working well until the connection failed the next time I used my OTA. ?AN is functioning normally. ?After the usual startup protocol and a 2 star alignment, the encoders are functioning normally guiding me as I ¡°push to¡± my target. ?Also when I power on the hand control, the function buttons all are working normally when I engage the ALT/AZ motor drives. ?What I don¡¯t hear is the series of 3 double beeps after I power-up and turn on AN to indicate the 2 units have made connection. ?In AN under settings/SERIAL I have the correct parameters: SERIAL 1, BAUD rate, and ServoCAT. ?I have read through the manual but have not found anything that I have missed or not engaged correctly. ?It occurs whether I power by lithium battery or use the AC adapter for power. ?Again it was working fine until it failed and I cannot think of anything that may have happened. ?Any suggestions on what the problem may be? ?
Re: Cannot get AScom to work with ServoCat v3

 

There should be ASCOM logs in "Documents\ASCOM" separated by day. If you go into the ServoCAT driver settings, enable all of the log options and try again - there should be a few ASCOM files to help debug this.
Re: Cannot get AScom to work with ServoCat v3

 

Ian,

Maybe I'm confused on your basic connections! The DSC HAS TO BE connected to the ServoCAT through each's serial port. And the DSC has to be used to do an alignment. Once done the DSC has to stay in the circuit, in play. It can be set to "FROM PLANETARIUM" but it still needs to remain in the circuit.?

Once aligned the ServoCAT, which is then connected to the device (PC, tablet direct or through a wifi interface such as the Skifi) running a planetarium program, acts as a 'traffic cop' and decides which commands from that connection are for the ServoCAT (a SLEW command from the handpad in that app) or if they are for the DSC (position) ... or both if a GOTO is sent. Again the ServoCAT in the latter case decides how to parse the message and sends whatever is needed to the DSC, retrieves what is needed from the DSC and sends that back to the planetarium program - and in the process does its own actions (moves to where it is told to go by the DSC).?

Paul's final "ah ha" moment was that he was not able to get George's program to work when using the Nexus as the DSC. When he switched to the Argo as the DSC it worked fine.?

Are you not connected in this manner??

Or are you not using an Argo Navis?

Gary?



------ Original Message ------
From idb@...
Date 9/4/2022 1:13:47 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Cannot get AScom to work with ServoCat v3

Just read Paul's saga and realised the issues I am having are pretty much the same as his.

Even though the utility says the version is 70.C it incorrectly reports all other parameters. Didn't see a resolution to this.

Reading Paul's topic it seems he only got it to work what AN was connected to the DSC port on the SC. I don't understand how this helps as the PC running the planetarium program is not connected to the AN but the USB port on the SC. George mentions the AN has to be set to Planetarium program before he got it to work. Since the Planetarium program is connected to the SC and not the AN I do not understand how this helps.

I guess I probably need help from George to make any progress.

Ian B

Re: Cannot get AScom to work with ServoCat v3

[email protected]
 

Just read Paul's saga and realised the issues I am having are pretty much the same as his.

Even though the utility says the version is 70.C it incorrectly reports all other parameters. Didn't see a resolution to this.

Reading Paul's topic it seems he only got it to work what AN was connected to the DSC port on the SC. I don't understand how this helps as the PC running the planetarium program is not connected to the AN but the USB port on the SC. George mentions the AN has to be set to Planetarium program before he got it to work. Since the Planetarium program is connected to the SC and not the AN I do not understand how this helps.

I guess I probably need help from George to make any progress.

Ian B
Cannot get AScom to work with ServoCat v3

[email protected]
 

I have upgraded Servocat to latest v7 version (from Gary) but still cannot get NINA or Stellarium to connect to the Servocat.

I am also using George's latest v7 ASCOM driver and latest version of ASCOM core software.

In NINA it starts to connect, pauses a few seconds, and then a red box comes up asking me to reconnect the telescope. There are no .Net errors in the windows application log (there were before I updated the Ascom platform and latest ASCOM Servocat driver). It tells me to look in "Inner Log" - don't know where that is or if it would help.

In Stellarium the attempt to connect to the mount through Ascom just sits in the 'connecting' state - for ever. I removed the old direct to ArgoNavis option just in case it was interfering.

I used to control the mount through ArgoNavis connection to Stellarium (for which there is a non Ascom option) but wish to move away from ArgoNavis being in the equation.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Ian B
Re: Initiate tracking without 2 star alignment?

 

If you are using a Gen2 or 3 and haven't upgraded yet you might consider doing so. When coupled with the Argo Navis we've added some sweet features in there like AutoLOCK and Native Tracking ... as well as improved tracking and GOTO's. Other niceties as well.?

have fun!?

Gary?



------ Original Message ------
From "mm Bars" <mmbars@...>
Date 9/3/2022 8:06:25 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Initiate tracking without 2 star alignment?

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the directions. ?AN and SC have been great additions to my very durable 15¡± Obsession. ?With those additions I now have a telescope on steroids - I should add the stalk made by Charles Stark has made these additions ¡°plug and play¡±. ?For example, 2 nights ago after my 2 star alignment of Polaris and Altair using a cross hair eyepiece to minimize pointing errors, and linking to SkySafari on my iPAD, for the next 2 hours I slewed to about 10 targets in several constellations all of which were in the FOV only requiring minimal adjusting to center the target. ?Finding a target under urban skies when a limited number of stars are visible from which to star hop to your target is truly a luxury.

Mike

Re: Initiate tracking without 2 star alignment?

 

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the directions. ?AN and SC have been great additions to my very durable 15¡± Obsession. ?With those additions I now have a telescope on steroids - I should add the stalk made by Charles Stark has made these additions ¡°plug and play¡±. ?For example, 2 nights ago after my 2 star alignment of Polaris and Altair using a cross hair eyepiece to minimize pointing errors, and linking to SkySafari on my iPAD, for the next 2 hours I slewed to about 10 targets in several constellations all of which were in the FOV only requiring minimal adjusting to center the target. ?Finding a target under urban skies when a limited number of stars are visible from which to star hop to your target is truly a luxury.

Mike
Re: No GoTo in southern part of sky

 

hmmm... that is odd.... drop me a line, direct please techsupport@... and let me know when you're back.

g.




------ Original Message ------
From "Doug Brown" <ddbrown4565@...>
Date 9/3/2022 4:28:03 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] No GoTo in southern part of sky

Gary, still no luck on the docs. We are in the northern part of Wisconsin and high speed internet has only recently arrived so maybe there is a problem at my end.? Maybe you could resend at a later date when we are back in Indy.? Really appreciate your quick responses.? Looking forward to the upgraded ServoCat.
?
Doug

Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ServoCAT] No GoTo in southern part of sky

Doug - just to be sure I resent the doc. It was sent direct to you both times. The 2nd time I used a different outgoing email address just in case the first was blocked.
Also note it along with all documentation is on our supplied CD.?

Gary Myers
StellarCAT
Re: No GoTo in southern part of sky

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Gary, still no luck on the docs. We are in the northern part of Wisconsin and high speed internet has only recently arrived so maybe there is a problem at my end.? Maybe you could resend at a later date when we are back in Indy.? Really appreciate your quick responses.? Looking forward to the upgraded ServoCat.
?
Doug

Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ServoCAT] No GoTo in southern part of sky

Doug - just to be sure I resent the doc. It was sent direct to you both times. The 2nd time I used a different outgoing email address just in case the first was blocked.
Also note it along with all documentation is on our supplied CD.?

Gary Myers
StellarCAT
Re: Initiate tracking without 2 star alignment?

 

Hey Mike! Long time no hear ... I hope you are doing well.?

So - you can use EasyTrack. But that too involves alignment (the NCP).?

The best way is to have it set up the night before - if possible. If you are out for several nights if you just leave the AN aligned from the first night - and on - you can continue to do things like daytime finding of Venus (CAUTION re the SUN!) - possibly Jupiter(?).?

Otherwise indeed you can do a daytime alignment. I have a procedure to do this - detailed below.?

Before you do this you have to
-make sure the encoder signs are correct on the Argo Navis
-make sure the encoders are reading properly on the Argo Navis (go to MODE ENCODER, enter, move scope around and confirm encoders always change as you are moving, especially in ALT where it is more often an issue)
-have programmed your location/date/time accurately in the Argo Navis
-have access to a planetarium program that accurately reflects your location/date/time
-know what your latitude is (roughly is all that is needed)
?
?
Point north and straight up (this assumes the ALT REF value is +90.0).
?
Turn on ServoCAT and Argo Navis.
?
Confirm the beep comes from Argo Navis, ServoCAT red DSC led is blinking
?
Push ENTER to get into the mode FIX ALT REF and ENTER again to accept the value.
?
Push EXIT and the turn the dial to MODE ENCODER, ENTER.
?
The right hand readout is the ALT and reads +90.00 ¨C move the ALT axis down until the value equals your LATitude as programmed in your LOCATION setting
?
Push EXIT and turn the dial to MODE ALIGN STAR, ENTER
?
Turn the dial backwards until you see Polaris, ENTER
?
Push EXIT and turn the dial to MODE ENCODER, ENTER.
?
Using a planetarium program that is properly set for your location and your date and time find a second star? that is up at this time ¨C a bright one. Using the program determine what the stars ALT and AZ value is (most if not all will show you the ¡®info¡¯ related to an object and in that is the ALT/AZ values). Write this down.
?
Now move the scope in AZ and in ALT to give you those positions on the encoders. A rough alignment is usually fine ¨C i.e. within a degree of each. Don¡¯t wait too long from when you get the position above and when you go to it. If it is more than a minute or so you can go back and confirm the ALT/AZ value again.
?
Push EXIT, turn the dial to MODE ALIGN STAR, ENTER
?
Find this star, when found hit ENTER.
?
Push EXIT, turn the dial to MODE CATALOG, hit ENTER several times until you get the GUIDE values for this star.?

Confirm the red DSC light on the front panel of the ServoCAT is now solid on. If so it is now tracking.?

You can if you want move away from the last (2nd) star by say 10 or 20¡ã in one or both axes .... then with the axes engaged hit the GOTO and it should go back to the same location as indicated in the GUIDE number on the Argo Navis (less than 0.05¡ã).?
?
This completes the daytime alignment.?
?




------ Original Message ------
From "mm Bars" <mmbars@...>
Date 9/3/2022 1:04:03 PM
Subject [ServoCAT] Initiate tracking without 2 star alignment?

There are time where it would be nice to initiate tracking, for example early evening when viewing the moon, before any alignment stars are visible with my AN/SC setup? ?One method I have thought about is too roughly estimate the position of Polaris then guess the position of another alignment star. ?Even if only fair tracking was achieved, it would still be helpful. ?Does anyone have another method.

Mike

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