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Date

Re: I don't remember the procedure...

 

Hello


I see that it's a subcircuit. In this case, if you want to use the symbol for PMOS, then Ctrl-right-click on it, rename MP to X and then rename PMOS to IRLML5103. Of course, having the subcircuit's text as a SPICE directive on the schematic or in a custom library is necessary.



Merry Christmas to you, too

Vlad


Re: Spice model

John Woodgate
 

In message <l8sctp+q9tj4j@...>, dated Wed, 18 Dec 2013, partho.duet@... writes:

How can I get model of c828 trasistor. Please help.
It's probably a 2SC828; Japanese transistors often don't have the '2S' marked. It appears to be the same as a BC547 and Spice models of that and its relatives are widely available.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK


Re: Odd behaviour when attempting to simulate an LTC3633 switching regulator.

 

?
The LTC3633 isn't really the right part to use, if you want 98mA output current.
?
1uH is not an absurdly low value, in fact it's probably too high for 4MHz operation. The ripple current should be sized for ~40% of the max output current the chip is designed for, consistent with the internal current-sense range - notwithstanding the actual load current. Suggest you?look at the numerous design examples, with correctly-sized component values.
?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:59 AM
Subject: [LTspice] Odd behaviour when attempting to simulate an LTC3633 switching regulator.

?

I am using the ltspice simulator to simulate a design based on the LTC3633.? I have little confidence in the efficiency calculation.

If i design the regulator to run at 4MHz with an output of 1.1V@98mA according to the formula defined in the LTC3633 datasheet the regulator needs a 6.4uH inductor and an output capacitor of 1.4uF.? When I simulate this in ltspice using the LTC3633 I get an efficiency of around 59%

If I then change the inductor to a rather small value of 1u for example the efficiency rises to around 70%.? I do not understand why this happens.? Why would using an adsurdly low inductor value increase the efficiency percentage of the model?

What is the best way to determine the efficiency of a switching regulator using the ltspice software?

I have included the spice netlist of the model below.

* U:\jobs\13_12_M154 regulator simulations\simulated\LTC3633_12_to_1V1_experiment.asc
V1 IN 0 12 Rser=1
XU1 NC_01 N001 IN N001 N008 IN 0 NC_02 N007 NC_03 N001 OUT1 N005 MP_01 IN MP_02 N003 IN N001 N002 IN MP_03 N004 MP_04 OUT2 N001 NC_04 N006 0 LTC3633
C1 0 N001 2.2?
L1 N004 OUT2 1? Rser=14m
C2 N002 N004 .1?
R1 OUT2 N006 8.2k
R2 N006 0 10K
R3 N008 0 80.2K
C4 OUT2 0 47? Irms=0 Rser=0.002 Lser=0
L2 N005 OUT1 1? Rser=14m
C5 N003 N005 .1?
R4 OUT1 N007 8.2K
R5 N007 0 10K
C6 OUT1 0 1.4? V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0008 Lser=0
C7 IN 0 47? V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.002 Lser=0 mfg="TDK" pn="C4532X5ROJ47@M" type="X5R" x2
I1 OUT1 0 0.098
I2 OUT2 0 0
.tran 0 2ms 1ms steady startup nodiscard uic
* Note:\n? If the simulation model is not found please update with the "Sync Release" command from the "Tools" menu.\n? It remains the customer's responsibility to verify proper and reliable operation in the actual application.\n? Component substitution and printed circuit board layout may significantly affect circuit performance or reliability\n? Contact your local sales representative for assistance. This circuit is distributed to customers only for use with LTC parts\n? Copyright ? 2011 Linear Technology Inc. All rights reserved.
* LTC3633? - Dual Channel 3A, 15V Monolithic Synchronous Step-Down Regulator\n1.1V/0.9V Buck Regulator with 2.5V LDO Output\nInput: 12V?????? Output1:1V1 @ 0.5A?????? Output2: 2.5V @ 2A
* 3x3mm
* 4x4mm
.lib LTC3633.sub
.backanno
.end


Re: How do I correctly install CD4000.lib into LTSpiceIV

John Woodgate
 

In message <l8s98e+1bt8oqb@...>, dated Wed, 18 Dec 2013, fraser.phillips@... writes:

I have managed to locate a CD4000.lib zip file - I have attempted to download an example which has the 'include CD4000.lib' listed on the schematic, however, I keep getting the following error:

"Could not open include file "CD4000.lib"

Any ideas?
You probably put the file in a place where LTspice doesn't look for it or Windows hides it. The best place for it is in the same folder as your schematic. Don't put *anything* in the LTspice files in the Program Files folder.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK


Re: Membership renewal problem ....

John Woodgate
 

In message <CALBs-TiyNyiDGCR5spojfv-1bnxAjbrU3Wv1CkREMu81ne9=HQ@...>, dated Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Andy <Andrew.Ingraham@...> writes:

I thought a Yahoo ID *was* a Yahoo account.
Not exactly. You get a Yahoo email address when you set up a Yahoo identity, and you can associate other email addresses with it. But Yahoo could cancel your Yahoo email address if you don't use it, without cancelling your Yahoo identity. Indeed, there seems to be no reason to cancel an identity if it's not used, because if it's not used, it's as if it didn't exist.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK


Odd behaviour when attempting to simulate an LTC3633 switching regulator.

 

I am using the ltspice simulator to simulate a design based on the LTC3633.? I have little confidence in the efficiency calculation.

If i design the regulator to run at 4MHz with an output of 1.1V@98mA according to the formula defined in the LTC3633 datasheet the regulator needs a 6.4uH inductor and an output capacitor of 1.4uF.? When I simulate this in ltspice using the LTC3633 I get an efficiency of around 59%

If I then change the inductor to a rather small value of 1u for example the efficiency rises to around 70%.? I do not understand why this happens.? Why would using an adsurdly low inductor value increase the efficiency percentage of the model?

What is the best way to determine the efficiency of a switching regulator using the ltspice software?

I have included the spice netlist of the model below.

* U:\jobs\13_12_M154 regulator simulations\simulated\LTC3633_12_to_1V1_experiment.asc
V1 IN 0 12 Rser=1
XU1 NC_01 N001 IN N001 N008 IN 0 NC_02 N007 NC_03 N001 OUT1 N005 MP_01 IN MP_02 N003 IN N001 N002 IN MP_03 N004 MP_04 OUT2 N001 NC_04 N006 0 LTC3633
C1 0 N001 2.2?
L1 N004 OUT2 1? Rser=14m
C2 N002 N004 .1?
R1 OUT2 N006 8.2k
R2 N006 0 10K
R3 N008 0 80.2K
C4 OUT2 0 47? Irms=0 Rser=0.002 Lser=0
L2 N005 OUT1 1? Rser=14m
C5 N003 N005 .1?
R4 OUT1 N007 8.2K
R5 N007 0 10K
C6 OUT1 0 1.4? V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0008 Lser=0
C7 IN 0 47? V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.002 Lser=0 mfg="TDK" pn="C4532X5ROJ47@M" type="X5R" x2
I1 OUT1 0 0.098
I2 OUT2 0 0
.tran 0 2ms 1ms steady startup nodiscard uic
* Note:\n? If the simulation model is not found please update with the "Sync Release" command from the "Tools" menu.\n? It remains the customer's responsibility to verify proper and reliable operation in the actual application.\n? Component substitution and printed circuit board layout may significantly affect circuit performance or reliability\n? Contact your local sales representative for assistance. This circuit is distributed to customers only for use with LTC parts\n? Copyright ? 2011 Linear Technology Inc. All rights reserved.
* LTC3633? - Dual Channel 3A, 15V Monolithic Synchronous Step-Down Regulator\n1.1V/0.9V Buck Regulator with 2.5V LDO Output\nInput: 12V?????? Output1:1V1 @ 0.5A?????? Output2: 2.5V @ 2A
* 3x3mm
* 4x4mm
.lib LTC3633.sub
.backanno
.end


Spice model

 

How can I get model of c828 trasistor. Please help.


Re: How do I correctly install CD4000.lib into LTSpiceIV

 

Fraser wrote:

?
?"Could not open include file "CD4000.lib"

?
?Any ideas?

Did you?
extract the contents of the ZIP file?

Did you put the .LIB file in the same directory with your schematic?

If both of those are OK, then check your .INCLUDE statement for a typo.

The error message means the operating system couldn't find the file where you said it would be.

Regards,
Andy



Re: Membership renewal problem ....

 

Yahoo has always retired accounts that go unused for just a few months.
(At most 6.) I know this from personal experience.
But do they cancel Yahoo identities? I don't think any other form of
'Yahoo account' is required.

I thought a Yahoo ID *was* a Yahoo account.

I may be mistaken. I know that the Yahoo ID that I got when I first
signed up for YahooGroups, has email, and I log-in to it, to access my
YahooGroups, just like any other Yahoo account (I think).

Andy


How do I correctly install CD4000.lib into LTSpiceIV

 

I have managed to locate a CD4000.lib zip file - I have attempted to download an example which has the 'include CD4000.lib' listed on the schematic, however, I keep getting the following error:

"Could not open include file "CD4000.lib"

Any ideas?

regards,
Fraser


I don't remember the procedure...

 

Hello,

I don't remember the procedure to use a "new" Spice model (IRLML5103.spi).
Where can i find the information?
(Something like rename as "X" and...)
Thank you for your help.

A Merry Christmas,
Rudi,HB9ARI


Re: Modified Trapezoidal Method

 

Sorry the link in 1) was wrong, I meant: http://bit.ly/1kUR0Um


Re: LTSpice IV Time Step Algorithm

 

Sorry, the A. Brambilla link was wrong. I meant http://bit.ly/1kUR0Um


Re: LTSpice IV Time Step Algorithm

 

Thanks Andy for your reply!

You are totally right; the step size is reduced with a factor of 8, when the non-linear equations do not converge. But that is not the only control method. The local truncation error of the numerical integrations is evaluated in each time step. Depending on that error the step-size get a smooth shape.

Meanwhile I found Mikes statements to the modified trap as well. Too bad, there is no information about the way it works. I don't think it is a complete proprietary method, because as far as I know it's also used in Spice Opus (and maybe other Spice-like programs?). It was also explained by A. Brambilla in http://bit.ly/1dNhwgl.

Another thing is, that one need a lot of research to invent a complete new time integration method. Gear's method for instance is studied in lots of papers, before it was used in software program. I have written a new topic in order to find more information. If you are interested, you can follow the discussion in: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LTspice/conversations/messages/72509


Modified Trapezoidal Method

 

For my Master Thesis I have written a small implementation of a spice-like simulator. I am using a 2nd-order Gear and the Trapezoidal Method. But the speed and accuracy is not satisfying to me. I would really like to test the modified trap method.

I have found two publications, which mention this method.

1) A. Brambilla explains the method in http://bit.ly/1dNhwgl . But there is no detailed information how the parameter is controlled, which switches from Euler to Trapezoidal Rule.
2) Tuma and Burmen give a more detailed outlook in "Circuit Simulation with SPICE OPUS". But in this book is not explained how the error coefficient of the LTE behaves while switching.

Maybe one of you can give me a hint where I can get more information. I would be glad if somebody could help me!

Best,
Niclas


Re: CIC unstable output

 

Hello Andy


And thank you for the reply. If you're worried about not being in your area of expertise, what can I say? I''' be brave and try to address your notes in the order you posted them.


> Why is the Gain of the first VCCS (G1) so very low?


The upsampler, as it is now, uses a SW controlled by V(0.3), but I also tried removing SW (replaced by the nearby R17) and using a B-source with the expression V(0.3)*V(108). You probably know that they tend to get slower as the processed values are higher so, given that with a unity gain at the input I could have gotten some hundred volts at the resampler (with the current input) and could have gotten even higher depending on the input levels, I decided to use the (M*R)**-N gain at the input knowing that it would, eventually, have had to be used somewhere along the way. The schematic you see is what is left after testing. After changing the upsampler I was left with the small gain at the input which made no difference to the output so I just left it there.


Still, you have a point there with the V <-> nV (MV <-> V in the case of unity gain input), so that may be one of the causes, but I suspect not because I also tried using integrators with 1/M/R gain, each stage, but didn't get any improvement. I haven't fiddled with tolerences, though, I will later today.


> Current source I1 looks odd


Since .AC through a S&H is not possible and since I try not to use voltage sources otherwise than grounded (convergence issues, as by the book), I used Rout=1 for the S&H (unlike its cousins, it defaults to 1k) and used I1 with only "AC 1" for .AC analysis. However, .AC works just fine (it needs a minor change to the current schematic to work).


> V4 and V5 have "zero" fall times


Yes, I know about the default times and that's the reason they are there as such: the clock sources are only needed for their rise times; fall times and pulse width have no influence (other than messing with the time-step). So, forcing only tr and period makes the source give the needed rise time while relaxing tf and ton, thus achieving the same results only a bit faster. In more complicated schematics this can be quite the time saver.


> The time-delay elements in the lower string are curious


They're intended. In order to turn it into an integrator and make it as the simplest approach, I used the tline as inverting output feeding the - input.


> Have you considered using B-elements as the delay lines


Yes, various combinations, with or without custom functions (like comb(x) {v(x)-delay(v(x),tcomb)}) and they seemed to behave worse. Maybe it's because of the nV <> V difference? I'll have to try this one today, too.


> You may need to specify a Maximum Timestep.


I even had patience for usec timesteps :-) , no change, though it's true I, too, would've expected a more "detailed" clock output with no timestep imposed.


> How did you get the "COUNTER" behavioral element to use a gate-type symbol?


You simply rename INV to COUNTER. No, it doesn't matter :-)


> The error log has several "singular matrix" flags


I don't know why, node q is the output of the first integrator, node o is the output of the last one (the output of the filter). If it complains about them, why not complain about the other 6? Is it only because they're named? Apparently not since deleting q (for example) will make LTspice complain about N025 (as I have it) and o. The simulation runs, though, as you can see... No idea what other meaning it has.



At the end, it seems there are two things to try: the nV <> V difference and the reltol, abstol & co. I'll test these later and see what comes out of it.




Thank you for the answers.

Vlad


Re: Membership renewal problem ....

John Woodgate
 

In message
<CALBs-TjCzp09SySczUQwfsmEPJ+Cz3H1nGNxPoho_Y4tT=7L4g@...>,
dated Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Andy <Andrew.Ingraham@...> writes:

Yahoo has always retired accounts that go unused for just a few months.
?(At most 6.) ?I know this from personal experience.
But do they cancel Yahoo identities? I don't think any other form of
'Yahoo account' is required.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK


Re: FFT Resolution

 

ronw6wo wrote, "If someone can send me the set-up details to show what is possible for a simple square-wave it would be enormously helpful".

I uploaded two examples to the "Temp" folder; one with a 1 kHz square wave and one with a 10 MHz square wave.

I played around a bit with the Maximum Timestep but for these square waves it seems to have very little or no effect, so in the end I just left it alone.

Andy


Re: FFT Resolution

 

Yes? I can appreciate there are various? sources of inaccuracy? Those? I have seen are not even close to a narrow band response.for example 1.5 MHz at 14MHz, similar bandwidth % at 1kHz

If someone can send me the set-up details to show what is possible for a simple square-wave it would be enormously helpful?


Re: Membership renewal problem ....

 

Jack wrote, "Obvious scam"

I wouldn't say obvious.

Yahoo has always retired accounts that go unused for just a few months. ?(At most 6.) ?I know this from personal experience.

However, you do need to be careful anyway, because the information Peter was given, and required to supply, might have been a scam.

Andy