Maynard

OK for band 3,4 . but for 1,2…??? Via C62 ??in the S-40B? ok I guess,
???but in the S-85 how does the sig get to L6?? .

Will go to eye doc tomorrow!

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Maynard Wright via
groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 5:52 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

Actually, L6 does connect to the signal path between the output of V1
and the input (grid) of V2 when switch S1B connects it. L6, like L3,
has two windings. I'm looking at the S-40B drawing.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP

On 2/11/25 14:22, don Root wrote:

Nick you are a joker..hi-hi,? as shown, L6 never gets any signal from
the left but is connected to the caps and tube as expected at the
right.. That switch looks clear enough on the drawing. ?Maybe the
drawing has some UV components and wires? I am looking on the BAMA pdf
doc.?? maybe the paper wore thin?

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Nick, W1NJC via
groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 12:18 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

So the same would be true for L6...

Also, I wonder if under some circumstances (~1/2w antenna) shorting out
that 1k resistor would improve Band 1 performance.? Seems like it would
be a voltage divider the way it's configured in the schematic.? Unless
maybe it was intentional attenuation to stop broadcast band overload in
urban areas?


--
don??? va3drl

?

Actually, L6 does connect to the signal path between the output of V1
and the input (grid) of V2 when switch S1B connects it. L6, like L3,
has two windings. I'm looking at the S-40B drawing.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP

On 2/11/25 14:22, don Root wrote:

Nick you are a joker..hi-hi,? as shown, L6 never gets any signal from
the left but is connected to the caps and tube as expected at the
right.. That switch looks clear enough on the drawing. ?Maybe the
drawing has some UV components and wires? I am looking on the BAMA pdf
doc.?? maybe the paper wore thin?

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Nick, W1NJC via
groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 12:18 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

So the same would be true for L6...

Also, I wonder if under some circumstances (~1/2w antenna) shorting out
that 1k resistor would improve Band 1 performance.? Seems like it would
be a voltage divider the way it's configured in the schematic.? Unless
maybe it was intentional attenuation to stop broadcast band overload in
urban areas?

Nick you are a joker..hi-hi,? as shown, L6 never gets any signal from
the left but is connected to the caps and tube as expected at the
right.. That switch looks clear enough on the drawing. ?Maybe the
drawing has some UV components and wires? I am looking on the BAMA pdf
doc.?? maybe the paper wore thin?

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Nick, W1NJC via
groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 12:18 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

So the same would be true for L6...

Also, I wonder if under some circumstances (~1/2w antenna) shorting out
that 1k resistor would improve Band 1 performance.? Seems like it would
be a voltage divider the way it's configured in the schematic.? Unless
maybe it was intentional attenuation to stop broadcast band overload in
urban areas?

?

So the same would be true for L6...
Also, I wonder if under some circumstances (~1/2w antenna) shorting out
that 1k resistor would improve Band 1 performance.? Seems like it would
be a voltage divider the way it's configured in the schematic.? Unless
maybe it was intentional attenuation to stop broadcast band overload in
urban areas?

Maynard, the parts list shows them as one physical part. I thought I
mentioned that some time ago, all going back to the S-40b or before.

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Maynard Wright via
groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 11:44 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

The very nice revised schematic by dexterdxer@... dated
3/14/2019 shows a dashed line around the two halves of coil L3. I think
that if the original Hallicrafters schematic had included some
indication of coupling between the two halves of L3, the light might
have dawned earlier for me. I was thinking of them as two separate
coils due to the way they are shown in the Hallicrafters schematic. I
probably should have been clued in by the fact that they are both
included in the one label "L3."

73,

Maynard
W6PAP


--
don??? va3drl

?

The very nice revised schematic by dexterdxer@... dated
3/14/2019 shows a dashed line around the two halves of coil L3. I think
that if the original Hallicrafters schematic had included some
indication of coupling between the two halves of L3, the light might
have dawned earlier for me. I was thinking of them as two separate
coils due to the way they are shown in the Hallicrafters schematic. I
probably should have been clued in by the fact that they are both
included in the one label "L3."

73,

Maynard
W6PAP

Hi, Don and Richard,

I agree that the S-40B and S-85 are identical with respect to the input
circuitry. The contrast I see is between those two and the S-40A, which
is entirely different.

Two issues I see:

1. The S-40A has four completely independent input circuits, each with
its own primary and secondary coils. In the S-40B/S-85, Bands 1 and 2
have no independent primary coils;

2. In the S-40B/S-85, Bands 1 and 2 appear to have a couple of reversed
connections in the schematic. But Don has suggested that coupling
between the two halves of L3 might replace the independent primaries.

In that case, my thoughts about the balanced inputs on Bands 3 and 4 and
unbalanced inputs (Antenna terminal A2 open) would still apply and be
consistent with measurements of my S-40B in the chart I sent earlier but
the schematic would not be in error.

If Don is correct in that conjecture, and I suspect that he is, doing
alignment in exactly the order specified might be important because
there would probably be at least some interaction between adjustments
for Bands 1 and 2.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP


On 2/11/25 01:44, don Root wrote:

Richard, Maynard, Emanuele and anyone left.? agree Richard? ?,numbering
is beyond my mental gymnastic ability.

I am now convinced that for Band 1, L3 top couples the signal-in to L3
bottom ?where C4 is, and does the resonance, and the reverse for
band 2.
In band 1,2 positions the coils are not grounded.? --==? the tricky
“苍辞迟肠丑”

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Richard Knoppow
via groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 1:58 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

To Maynard and Don: I have gone over the schematics of the S-85 and
S-40B and after staring at them for quite a while now can't make sense
of it. I am missing something, what? The two are pretty much identical.
Both are confusing because, for one thing, the coils are not in the
order of the bands. I am just not seeing something or have become cross
eyed. I will keep at it because I just need to know.
The two low frequency bands appear not to use transformers or else
the primary is coupled from the other coils. Eventually, the penny will
drop and I will get it.

On 2/10/2025 4:43 PM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

Providing only two primary windings in the S-40B as opposed to 4 such
windings in the S-40A may have saved money, but it might also have made
the receiver more useful to at least some owners.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

Richard, Maynard, Emanuele and anyone left.? agree Richard? ?,numbering
is beyond my mental gymnastic ability.

I am now convinced that for Band 1, L3 top couples the signal-in to L3
bottom ?where C4 is, and does the resonance, and the reverse for band 2.
In band 1,2 positions the coils are not grounded.? --==? the tricky “苍辞迟肠丑”

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Richard Knoppow
via groups.io
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2025 1:58 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

To Maynard and Don: I have gone over the schematics of the S-85 and
S-40B and after staring at them for quite a while now can't make sense
of it. I am missing something, what? The two are pretty much identical.
Both are confusing because, for one thing, the coils are not in the
order of the bands. I am just not seeing something or have become cross
eyed. I will keep at it because I just need to know.
The two low frequency bands appear not to use transformers or else
the primary is coupled from the other coils. Eventually, the penny will
drop and I will get it.

On 2/10/2025 4:43 PM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

Providing only two primary windings in the S-40B as opposed to 4 such
windings in the S-40A may have saved money, but it might also have made
the receiver more useful to at least some owners.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

?

To Maynard and Don: I have gone over the schematics of the S-85 and
S-40B and after staring at them for quite a while now can't make sense
of it. I am missing something, what? The two are pretty much identical.
Both are confusing because, for one thing, the coils are not in the
order of the bands. I am just not seeing something or have become cross
eyed. I will keep at it because I just need to know.
The two low frequency bands appear not to use transformers or else
the primary is coupled from the other coils. Eventually, the penny will
drop and I will get it.

On 2/10/2025 4:43 PM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

Providing only two primary windings in the S-40B as opposed to 4 such
windings in the S-40A may have saved money, but it might also have made
the receiver more useful to at least some owners.

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

Providing only two primary windings in the S-40B as opposed to 4 such
windings in the S-40A may have saved money, but it might also have made
the receiver more useful to at least some owners.

Richard, how do you define “performed”? More than anything, the front
end needs to remove images; if it doesn’t do that, does it really
perform ?well? The IF cant remove images.

As you know the single conversion is not bad? at 40 meters but up at 10m
it’s really tough to rid the images. You might say, it is a compromise;
but whatever, that’s what ”you” bought.

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Richard Knoppow
via groups.io
*Sent:* Monday, February 10, 2025 4:45 PM
*To:* [email protected]; 9166221613@...
*Subject:* Re: [HallicraftersRadios] S-85 refurbish: I've got a problem
during the RF alignment of bands 1 and 2 - trimcaps don't peak!

There are many changes from the S-40A to S-40B and later versions.
Its obvious that cost cutting had something to do with it but I think
the B had more modern circuits in several places.
I think it was found that the simpler circuits in the B and S-85
performed as well or better than the earlier ones.

On 2/10/2025 1:41 PM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

Yes, it is balanced on Bands 3 and 4 above 5.3 MHz. But the two coils
for the lower bands have no primary windings and terminal A1 connects to
the top of the coil for either Band 1 or 2. When the switch S1A
connects to either 1 or 2, the two primary windings for 3 and 4, as well
as terminal A2, are left floating. My measurements of my S-40B confirm
this.

Note that this is only for the S-40B and S-85 and is completely
different from the S-40A.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998


--
don??? va3drl

?

There are many changes from the S-40A to S-40B and later versions.
Its obvious that cost cutting had something to do with it but I think
the B had more modern circuits in several places.
I think it was found that the simpler circuits in the B and S-85
performed as well or better than the earlier ones.

On 2/10/2025 1:41 PM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

Yes, it is balanced on Bands 3 and 4 above 5.3 MHz. But the two coils
for the lower bands have no primary windings and terminal A1 connects to
the top of the coil for either Band 1 or 2. When the switch S1A
connects to either 1 or 2, the two primary windings for 3 and 4, as well
as terminal A2, are left floating. My measurements of my S-40B confirm
this.

Note that this is only for the S-40B and S-85 and is completely
different from the S-40A.

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998 ?

?

It is a balanced imput. Redraw the input circuits to show the actual
wiring without the switch.

On 2/10/2025 11:26 AM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

It would be difficult to rewire the S-40B to allow balanced input on
Bands 1 and 2. The S-40A uses transformers with primary and secondary
windings and resonance of the secondaries on all four bands. The S-40B
does that same thing for Bands 3 and 4 but connects antenna terminal A1
directly to the "hot" end of each resonant coil for Bands 1 and 2, with
a series 1000 ohm resistor between A1 and the coil for Band 1. So there
are no primary windings for Bands 1 and 2.

If someone really wants a balanced input below 5.3 MHz with an S-40B or
S-85, it might be useful to wind a 1:1 input transformer to place
between the receiver and the transmission line.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

Yes, it is balanced on Bands 3 and 4 above 5.3 MHz. But the two coils
for the lower bands have no primary windings and terminal A1 connects to
the top of the coil for either Band 1 or 2. When the switch S1A
connects to either 1 or 2, the two primary windings for 3 and 4, as well
as terminal A2, are left floating. My measurements of my S-40B confirm
this.

Note that this is only for the S-40B and S-85 and is completely
different from the S-40A.

It is a balanced imput. Redraw the input circuits to show the actual
wiring without the switch.

On 2/10/2025 11:26 AM, Maynard Wright via groups.io wrote:

It would be difficult to rewire the S-40B to allow balanced input on
Bands 1 and 2. The S-40A uses transformers with primary and secondary
windings and resonance of the secondaries on all four bands. The S-40B
does that same thing for Bands 3 and 4 but connects antenna terminal A1
directly to the "hot" end of each resonant coil for Bands 1 and 2, with
a series 1000 ohm resistor between A1 and the coil for Band 1. So there
are no primary windings for Bands 1 and 2.

If someone really wants a balanced input below 5.3 MHz with an S-40B or
S-85, it might be useful to wind a 1:1 input transformer to place
between the receiver and the transmission line.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

It would be difficult to rewire the S-40B to allow balanced input on
Bands 1 and 2. The S-40A uses transformers with primary and secondary
windings and resonance of the secondaries on all four bands. The S-40B
does that same thing for Bands 3 and 4 but connects antenna terminal A1
directly to the "hot" end of each resonant coil for Bands 1 and 2, with
a series 1000 ohm resistor between A1 and the coil for Band 1. So there
are no primary windings for Bands 1 and 2.

If someone really wants a balanced input below 5.3 MHz with an S-40B or
S-85, it might be useful to wind a 1:1 input transformer to place
between the receiver and the transmission line.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP

Hi, Don,

I did check the S-40A schematic and it shows all the input coils wired
so that on all bands they can function as balanced input circuits unlike
the S-40B and S-85 that leave terminal A2 open on Bands 1 and 2.

Now, is the receiver really wired that way or is the schematic wrong?
Later today (or tomorrow) I'll turn my S-40B around and measure terminal
A2 (DC continuity to A1 and G) with the bandswitch in all 4 positions.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP