Re: Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ?
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Don According to Mr. A.I. Google, the grounding of the neutral line became mandatory with the 1913 update to the NEC.? Grounding of the building service was not explicitly required until 1918.? It seems that the NEC has always been a work in progress.??My search terms were: "when did the NEC require that the neutral line be grounded" and "when did NEC require grounded outlets". Tesla, Sarnoff, Armstrong, de Forest, Shockley, Collins, among many others, are all demigods, some with a vocal cult following, others with vocal detractors.? For me it would be Oliver Heaviside and John Costas to name two relatively unknows but both have made great contributions in the field of electrical engineering. Jim Logic: Method used to arrive at the wrong conclusion, with confidence.? Murphy
On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 05:25:14 AM CST, don Root <drootofallevil@...> wrote:
Jim, ??from ?your 3rd paragraph and the references I agree with the phrase? “split phase or Edison” ?for AC? systems with the OR included. I agree Edison was the big man for DC, and he should not be forgotten. And that 3-Wire DC system was copied for AC. ? ? Thanks for that interesting link to way back. You no doubt notice that the letters ”ground” do ?not appear. ? I am quite aware of the development of AC, but my past “research” leaves exactly who did what first as an ongoing debate. I have a few Tesla books that I got at the AWA Rochester 30 years ago. ? The use of the term "multi-phase": ?
???“Multi-phase power generation designs with 5, 7, 9, 12, and 15 phases in conjunction with “ ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Whartenby via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 4:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ? ? Don I'm really confused by your post and the casual use of terms.? I assume that you are still annoyed by the use of "Edison" to describe the center tapped transformer distribution system currently in use? ? There were three systems proposed to transmit power early on (1883-1896, see:? ) in the US and perhaps Canada too.? They are single phase (Westinghouse), two phase aka polyphase (Tesla)?and three phase (Dolivo-Dobrovolsky).? Tesla was the champion of the two phase system where the two phases are separated by 90 degrees, in the 3 phase system, 120 degrees separates each phase.? The three phase system eventually won the day. ? Some sources credit Tesla with the three phase motor (patent filed in 1897) but his patent specified six wires connecting the motor to the generator.? This is not what is used today.? Dolivo-Dobrovolsky a Russian born German working for AEG developed the three phase system now in use along with the delta-wye configuration, the three phase motor (1888), three phase transformer and he designed the first three phase hydroelectric power plant (1891) using all of his developments. ? The split phase or Edison distribution system is part of the single phase system.? The use of the term "multi-phase" is a distortion of facts and implies a three phase system which it is clearly not.? Yes, Edison developed his system for the lights powered by the Pearl Street Station which used a "neutral" and two "hot" conductors.? From one hot conductor to neutral was 110 VDC and across both hot conductors was 220 VDC.? This configuration is still used today but at a slightly higher voltage using AC power but the principle is still valid and Edison still deserves the credit.?? Regards, Jim ? Logic: Method used to arrive at the wrong conclusion, with confidence.? Murphy ? ? On Sunday, January 12, 2025 at 08:25:11 PM CST, don Root <drootofallevil@...> wrote: ? ? This is unfortunately a continuation of a part of the off-topic stuff that brings down the respect of our forum, but must be done. Re ??the wording that began in a different topic /g/HallicraftersRadios/message/31466 ?and somehow has been continued in this topic and that continues a dispute is:? ?? “Yes, it is known as the Edison split phase system, see: ” I previously glossed over the above wording believing that a comma was just accidentally missing, and knowing people often use loose wording to express difficult stuff, however when looking at the quoted link, I see the following: ? quote ????? “A split-phase or single-phase three-wire system is a type of distribution. ??It is the (AC) equivalent of the original three-wire ” ? End quote ???and not “Edison split phase system” The term “split-phase” is used frequently in the above link , and ?“Edison” is used twice, but not beside “split-phase” or “split phase”. ? Now, Re?? the previously quoted ? Here is what I see in that quoted text at the top on my bit-machine and screen with my old eyes: Ask An Electrician - How Does Edison 3 Wire (Split Phase) System Work? As I see it , [with? added spaces,color, etc ?for clarity ] the area in dispute says : Edison 3 Wire ???( Split Phase ) ???System. ? I read that in my grammar as: ? Edison 3 Wire ???or ???Split Phase ???System … Which ?means to me that the system can be identified by either ? 1-? ?the term ?“Edison 3 Wire” ??????? ????????or 2-? the term ?“Split Phase” ?? ?????the term ?“single-phase three-wire” is perhaps more clear ?in a multi-phase environment And intentionally misquoting it as ?“Edison split phase system” and then reinforcing it seems to me to be intentionally part of the “misinformation” society that is plaguing this side of the world. ? see
?quote Misinformation is false or inaccurate information—getting the facts wrong. Disinformation is false information which is deliberately intended to mislead—intentionally misstating the facts. The has affected our ability to improve public health, address climate change, maintain a stable democracy, and more. By providing valuable insight into how and why we are likely to believe misinformation and disinformation, psychological science can inform how we protect ourselves against its ill effects. End quote ???
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Jim Whartenby