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Our "management" is so impressed with the process and with the product that they want to move a group I didn't even know existed.
There are about 20 members and the real issue is the messages. There are only a few files that could be moved manually.?
Basic plan?
Eric Johnson
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However, if we simply created a new group that would the Basic a plan correct? Could that Basic plan then have a few files?
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Eric
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On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 2:38 PM, Duane
<txpigeon@...> wrote:
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Eric, Our "management" is so impressed with the process and with the product
that they want to move a group I didn't even know existed.
There are about 20 members and the real issue is the messages. Is this "management" directly related to the first group? That is, are all 20 members of the management also members of the first group? If so, then Duane's suggestion of transferring the management Yahoo group into a management subgroup of the first Groups.io group might be perfectly appropriate. And it would allow you to use the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer to copy the messages without paying an additional upgrade fee. The Setings page of the management subgroup can be configured to fully hide that subgroup from the primary group members. They would would be able to infer that there is or was a subgroup, owing to the changed address (web and email) format for groups with subgroups. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Thank you. I have never dealt with sub-groups so there may be questions. The first that comes to mind is whether the fact that we've already completed the main group transfer would still allow us to move the newly created sub-group at no additional cost. The second is the process. Do we simply set up "sub-group.io" and then task the move of the Yahoo group to the new sub-group.?
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Thanks for you help.
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Eric
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On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 11:45 PM, Shal Farley
<shals2nd@...> wrote:
Eric, > Our "management" is so impressed with the process and with the product > that they want to move a group I didn't even know existed. > > There are about 20 members and the real issue is the messages. Is this "management" directly related to the first group? That is, are all 20 members of the management also members of the first group? If so, then Duane's suggestion of transferring the management Yahoo group into a management subgroup of the first Groups.io group might be perfectly appropriate. And it would allow you to use the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer to copy the messages without paying an additional upgrade fee. The Setings page of the management subgroup can be configured to fully hide that subgroup from the primary group members. They would would be able to infer that there is or was a subgroup, owing to the changed address (web and email) format for groups with subgroups. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 03:19 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
The first that comes to mind is whether the fact that we've already completed the main group transfer would still allow us to move the newly created sub-group at no additional cost. The second is the process. Do we simply set up "sub-group.io" and then task the move of the Yahoo group to the new sub-group.
There should be no problem creating the subgroup, then transferring the information from YG into it.? Even if you'd done it initially, it would have been 2 separate transfers.? Make sure you understand the changes that will be made in addressing the original (main) group before creating the subgroup, /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Subgroups? There's a slight delay after creating the subgroup before you can access the main or subgroup again, usually only a few minutes, while the DNS information is propagated throughout the world. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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Yes. The sub-group would be the board of the agency while the larger group may or may not be part of the board.?
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Could I create a sub-group with only one or two people to study the ramifications of this approach?
Eric
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 4:20 AM, Duane
<txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 03:19 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
The first that comes to mind is whether the fact that we've already completed the main group transfer would still allow us to move the newly created sub-group at no additional cost. The second is the process. Do we simply set up "sub-group.io" and then task the move of the Yahoo group to the new sub-group.
There should be no problem creating the subgroup, then transferring the information from YG into it.? Even if you'd done it initially, it would have been 2 separate transfers.? Make sure you understand the changes that will be made in addressing the original (main) group before creating the subgroup, /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Subgroups? There's a slight delay after creating the subgroup before you can access the main or subgroup again, usually only a few minutes, while the DNS information is propagated throughout the world. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 04:53 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
Could I create a sub-group with only one or two people to study the ramifications of this approach?
Yes, but the changes to the main group mentioned in the Wiki will be immediate when you create the subgroup.? After creating the subgroup, it pretty much has a complete set of Settings for itself, so you may want to take time to get them the way you want before the transfer. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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However, the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer seems to indicate that another fee of $220 would need to be paid for the first year.
Eric
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Shal Farley Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 11:44 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [GMF] Second group to move Eric, > Our "management" is so impressed with the process and with the product > that they want to move a group I didn't even know existed. > > There are about 20 members and the real issue is the messages. Is this "management" directly related to the first group? That is, are all 20 members of the management also members of the first group? If so, then Duane's suggestion of transferring the management Yahoo group into a management subgroup of the first Groups.io group might be perfectly appropriate. And it would allow you to use the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer to copy the messages without paying an additional upgrade fee. The Setings page of the management subgroup can be configured to fully hide that subgroup from the primary group members. They would would be able to infer that there is or was a subgroup, owing to the changed address (web and email) format for groups with subgroups. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 10:42 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
However, the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer seems to indicate that another fee of $220 would need to be paid for the first year.
Eric -- Subgroups do not have a payment plan. If your primary group is *already* on Premium Yearly, there is no additional fee to transfer content into a subgroup. If it's not, you would indeed have to upgrade the primary group in order to use Easy Group Transfer to migrate this subgroup. Failing that, you will have to do the migration manually...meaning that your goal of having these messages actually present, properly attributed and indexed, in the subgroup message archive will not be achieved. Hope this helps, Bruce
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Now one last detail before I make a proposal to the boss. Is it possible to change the name of a group? Here¡¯s the problem. ? The primary group is currently known as NAIAandNAIATrustMembers.?? The name of the other group (so far not converted) is NAIATrustBoard. ? It would make sense the use NAIAandNAIATrust as the domain (I think it would be called) and then use Members and Board as the two sub-groups. ? Feasible? ? Eric ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bruce Bowman
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 9:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] Second group to move ? On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 10:42 AM, Eric Johnson wrote: However, the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer seems to indicate that another fee of $220 would need to be paid for the first year.
Eric -- Subgroups do not have a payment plan.
If your primary group is *already* on Premium Yearly, there is no additional fee to transfer content into a subgroup. If it's not, you would indeed have to upgrade the primary group in order to use Easy Group Transfer to migrate this subgroup.
Failing that, you will have to do the migration manually...meaning that your goal of having these messages actually present, properly attributed and indexed, in the subgroup message archive will not be achieved.
Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 02:00 PM, Eric Johnson wrote:
The primary group is currently known as NAIAandNAIATrustMembers.?? The name of the other group (so far not converted) is NAIATrustBoard.
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It would make sense the use NAIAandNAIATrust as the domain (I think it would be called) and then use Members and Board as the two sub-groups.
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Feasible?
Eric -- What you suggest is feasible. See also? /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Renaming-a-Group?for some impacts of renaming that perhaps you haven't though of. Keep in mind that everyone in any subgroup must also be a member of the primary group. This can lead to subsequent member management headaches if the structure of your primary- and sub-group membership does not naturally follow that convention. With that in mind, I'm not sure why it's necessary to have a separate "members" subgroup, unless the people serving on the board are not members.? Regards, Bruce
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Eric, It would make sense the use NAIAandNAIATrust as the domain (I think it
would be called) and then use Members and Board as the two sub-groups. Yes, except that Members may as well be the name of the primary group, replacing the default of "main", as Bruce suggested. That is assuming that all board members are also members of the organization. That's what I do with my PTA group. The primary is Members@ unitname.groups.io while the board is Board@ unitname.groups.io (subgroup) We also have other subgroups, such as teachers@, and staff@, as well as temporary subgroups sometimes for volunteers organizing an event. My only other comment is that "NAIAandNAIATrust" seems a bit awkward, even if accurate. I'd be really tempted to shorten it to one or the other, if that wouldn't be completely incorrect. For example, if NAIATrust is in some sense a subset of NAIA (at least as far as participation is concerned) then you might have: Members@ NAIA.groups.io (primary) Trust@ NAIA.groups.io (subgroup) Board@ NAIA.groups.io (subgroup) Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Shal and Bruce, I appreciate the both of you holding my hand in the midst of all the turmoil. Thank-you.
I've looked at the sub-groups section of "Admin" and there's one thing I want to be certain I understand. The description merges the sample into an email address. How does the sub-group(s) work when reading online? Are messages presented to the users purely in accord with the "visibility" rules? What about people who are members of both the "members" and the "board"? Do they get two copies or does groups.io have the logic that says "once is enough"?
Since we can't be certain that all Board members are also members of the main group, what would be the construct using "NAIA..." and "Members" and "Board"? I'll suggest that NAIAandANIATrust be shortened. It was a name that was convenient 10 years ago.
I'm using a rather careful approach as this is something we never considered and if mis-handled, can't be easily undone.
Eric
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Shal Farley Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 11:11 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [GMF] Second group to move Eric, > It would make sense the use NAIAandNAIATrust as the domain (I think it > would be called) and then use Members and Board as the two sub-groups. Yes, except that Members may as well be the name of the primary group, replacing the default of "main", as Bruce suggested. That is assuming that all board members are also members of the organization. That's what I do with my PTA group. The primary is Members@ unitname.groups.io while the board is Board@ unitname.groups.io (subgroup) We also have other subgroups, such as teachers@, and staff@, as well as temporary subgroups sometimes for volunteers organizing an event. My only other comment is that "NAIAandNAIATrust" seems a bit awkward, even if accurate. I'd be really tempted to shorten it to one or the other, if that wouldn't be completely incorrect. For example, if NAIATrust is in some sense a subset of NAIA (at least as far as participation is concerned) then you might have: Members@ NAIA.groups.io (primary) Trust@ NAIA.groups.io (subgroup) Board@ NAIA.groups.io (subgroup) Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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The description merges the sample into an email address.
I don't understand what you're saying there.
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How does the sub-group(s) work when reading online?
The same as any other group. In most respects sub-groups are exactly the same as regular groups. The differences mainly involve the fact that the members of the subgroup must be members of the primary group.
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Are messages presented to the users purely in accord with the "visibility" rules?
The subgroup has its own Settings page. With mostly the same controls as any other group.
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It's Visibility setting allows it to be listed in the primary group or not, and its messages to be visible to the subgroup members only, to the primary group members, or even to the public.
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What about people who are members of both the "members" and the "board"? Do they get two copies or does have the logic that says "once is enough"?
Messages are posted to the subgroup are emailed only to the subgroup members, in accordance with their Subscription settings for that subgroup (Individual, Digest, etc.).
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Likewise for messages posted to the primary group.
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So a member of a subgroup would receive two copies of a message only if the sender of that message sent it to both the primary and the subgroup posting addresses. I'm not sure there's any good reason for doing that.
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Since we can't be certain that all Board members are also members of the main group, what would be the construct using "NAIA..." and "Members" and "Board"?
To operate the way I suggested the board members would have to be subscribed to the primary group as well. There's no way around that. They can, however, be set to No Email in the primary group if the primary group's messages would be a distraction to them.
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Whether they are members of the parent organization in real life or not is a separate question, and not necessarily material to the mailing list organization. The only way I can see a problem with this requirement is if those particular board members should be excluded from accessing the material in the primary group. But that seems far-fetched.
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I'm using a rather careful approach as this is something we never considered and if mis-handled, can't be easily undone.
Understood. If you want to experiment with the features of a group with subgroups, feel free to request membership in my test group, .
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Shal
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-- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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I've subscribed to your suggested list. Thanks.
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Eric
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On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:47 PM, Shal Farley
<shals2nd@...> wrote:
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The description merges the sample into an email address.
I don't understand what you're saying there.
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How does the sub-group(s) work when reading online?
The same as any other group. In most respects sub-groups are exactly the same as regular groups. The differences mainly involve the fact that the members of the subgroup must be members of the primary group.
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Are messages presented to the users purely in accord with the "visibility" rules?
The subgroup has its own Settings page. With mostly the same controls as any other group.
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It's Visibility setting allows it to be listed in the primary group or not, and its messages to be visible to the subgroup members only, to the primary group members, or even to the public.
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What about people who are members of both the "members" and the "board"? Do they get two copies or does have the logic that says "once is enough"?
Messages are posted to the subgroup are emailed only to the subgroup members, in accordance with their Subscription settings for that subgroup (Individual, Digest, etc.).
?I've subscribed to your test list. Thanks.
Likewise for messages posted to the primary group.
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So a member of a subgroup would receive two copies of a message only if the sender of that message sent it to both the primary and the subgroup posting addresses. I'm not sure there's any good reason for doing that.
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Since we can't be certain that all Board members are also members of the main group, what would be the construct using "NAIA..." and "Members" and "Board"?
To operate the way I suggested the board members would have to be subscribed to the primary group as well. There's no way around that. They can, however, be set to No Email in the primary group if the primary group's messages would be a distraction to them.
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Whether they are members of the parent organization in real life or not is a separate question, and not necessarily material to the mailing list organization. The only way I can see a problem with this requirement is if those particular board members should be excluded from accessing the material in the primary group. But that seems far-fetched.
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I'm using a rather careful approach as this is something we never considered and if mis-handled, can't be easily undone.
Understood. If you want to experiment with the features of a group with subgroups, feel free to request membership in my test group, .
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Shal
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-- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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How do I proceed? I have one group that has been converted. There is another one that has not been converted. Both use a variant of what would be the domain name so it will have to change.
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NAIAandNAIATrustMembers and NAIAandNAIATrustBoard would have a domain of NAIAandNAIATrust with Members and Board being the sub-domains. So, one needs to change its name and then become a sub and the other must start the entire conversion process.
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Thanks for talking me through this far.
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Eric
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On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:08 PM, Eric Johnson
<Toller67@...> wrote:
I've subscribed to your suggested list. Thanks.
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Eric
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I'm sending this again as I got no answer and it seems to have gotten lost.
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On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 8:29 AM, Eric Johnson
<Toller67@...> wrote:
How do I proceed? I have one group that has been converted. There is another one that has not been converted. Both use a variant of what would be the domain name so it will have to change.
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NAIAandNAIATrustMembers and NAIAandNAIATrustBoard would have a domain of NAIAandNAIATrust with Members and Board being the sub-domains. So, one needs to change its name and then become a sub and the other must start the entire conversion process.
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Thanks for talking me through this far.
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Eric
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On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 10:59 PM, Eric Johnson wrote:
How do I proceed? I have one group that has been converted. There is another one that has not been converted. Both use a variant of what would be the domain name so it will have to change.
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NAIAandNAIATrustMembers and NAIAandNAIATrustBoard would have a domain of NAIAandNAIATrust with Members and Board being the sub-domains. So, one needs to change its name and then become a sub and the other must start the entire conversion process.
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Thanks for talking me through this far.
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Eric
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So, have you decided to change the name of your main group??
Here's how: ?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Renaming-a-Group
So do that first - carefully, as the instructions say.
Since you have a group, you can create your subgroup after the name change.?
Easy to do.?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Subgroups
Be careful with your settings.?
Then request your transfer. Free if your first group is a premium group.
Make sure you pick the RIGHT group to transfer into the subgroup. Not into the main group.?
(Others have made that mistake and it is hard to untangle.)
If someone is only in your Yahoo Group and not in you main Groups.io group, the person will be put in both.
Start and read all the instructions!
Frances
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FAQ on Moving from YahooGroups
GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers
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Duane
Frances
Shal Farley
Bruce Bowman