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Just fielded a complaint from a non-subscriber that she was receiving my group's messages. She asked to be unsubscribed, because when she clicked on the Unsubscribe link at the bottom of the posts it took her to the page listing only her legitimately-subscribed groups and did not include mine. When I told her there was nothing to unsubscribe she forwarded two example posts to me. One was from my group and the second was from a different group. The address associated with the Unsubscribe link is different from the one she emailed from (both are aol addresses). Something seems to be going on that involves more than just my group. Why would messages be going to someone who isn't a subscriber??

Tom Madden, Owner, Passenger Car List
(railroads, not automobiles)

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 03:55 PM, Tom Madden wrote:

When I told her there was nothing to unsubscribe she forwarded two example posts to me. One was from my group and the second was from a different group. The address associated with the Unsubscribe link is different from the one she emailed from (both are aol addresses). Something seems to be going on that involves more than just my group. Why would messages be going to someone who isn't a subscriber??

You didn't say whether she was subscribed with the forwarded email address. Check that.

Frances
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On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 02:31 PM, Frances wrote:

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 03:55 PM, Tom Madden wrote:

When I told her there was nothing to unsubscribe she forwarded two example posts to me. One was from my group and the second was from a different group. The address associated with the Unsubscribe link is different from the one she emailed from (both are aol addresses). Something seems to be going on that involves more than just my group. Why would messages be going to someone who isn't a subscriber??

You didn't say whether she was subscribed with the forwarded email address. Check that.

She is not subscribed from either address. I followed up and she said the forwarded email address isn't hers.?My group requires approval of all new subscribers and neither address came by that route.?So she's receiving emails at an address that isn't hers, from multiple groups that neither she nor the forwarded address is subscribed to. Puzzling. The forwarded address is parkaralan@...,?which she doesn't recognize at all. She's not being belligerent or anything. Says it began "a month or so ago" and she just deletes the messages. That's a workable but not acceptable resolution.

Tom Madden

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 03:51 PM, Tom Madden wrote:

Says it began "a month or so ago" and she just deletes the messages. That's a workable but not acceptable resolution.

That's about all she can do.? Someone that's subscribed to your group is sending/forwarding the messages to her.? Should be the person shown in the footer.? Either that or AOL has serious problems (wouldn't be the first time.)

Duane
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On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 03:12 PM, Duane wrote:

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 03:51 PM, Tom Madden wrote:

Says it began "a month or so ago" and she just deletes the messages. That's a workable but not acceptable resolution.

That's about all she can do.? Someone that's subscribed to your group is sending/forwarding the messages to her.? Should be the person shown in the footer.? Either that or AOL has serious problems (wouldn't be the first time.)

The person shown in the footer isn't subscribed either. I'm certainly at a loss.....

Tom Madden

?

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 09:37 PM, Tom Madden wrote:

The person shown in the footer isn't subscribed either. I'm certainly at a loss.....

This is your group, right??/g/PassengerCarList/topics
So your group's message archive is public. ?But I don't see how there can be a footer in the email she receives unless it is sent / forwarded by a member through the group. Very puzzling.

Frances

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On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 08:37 PM, Tom Madden wrote:

The person shown in the footer

One other thing I'd check.? If there are any "live links" in the footer, either hover or check source code to see if maybe it's a phishing email.? I seem to remember someone getting one of those not too long ago.? They use a message from a group with public archives, then attach their own footer in hopes of catching someone unawares.

Duane
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This is the problem I wrote about in message #???#34795???(Nov 3) under the subject line "People are asking me to remove them from my group....but they are not members!".

Since then I have received one or two complaints a day from non-members who have somehow been sent messages from my neighborhood discussion forum. I always write back and explain that I don't know how they are getting messages, that they are NOT subscribed to my group, and I'm very sorry this has happened. Then I tell them I would like to get to the bottom of it, and I ask them to forward to me any message they've received from my group. So far I've been sent six or seven messages by these non-members. It's always some random thing -- a group member posting a recommendation for a contractor, or someone giving away a rug -- that kind of normal, everyday message that my listserv runs all day long. The sender of the message in question is always a neighbor, a reliable poster -- not someone who would be forwarding messages to non-members to do some sort of mischief. So that's a dead end.

Also, twice the message that the person has chosen to forward to me comes not from my group, but from some OTHER group at Groups.io. One time the message came from an electrical engineering group. The other time it came from a cat group. I wrote back to the person in each case and let them know they need to alert the group owner of that group. Actually, I don't see how the group owner of any other group could know what's going on either. But at least it's clear to me that some hacker or mischief-maker isn't targeting my group specifically; this appears to be a problem affecting many groups throughout Groups.io.

The only clear connection I see in all these cases is that the non-member who is receiving the unwanted messages from Groups.io always has an AOL.com email address.

I'm getting more and more frustrated as this problem continues.

Tom, if you have made any headway in figuring out what's going on -- or if any other group owners have any insight -- please share!

-Peggy Robin
Owner, ClevelandPark - a Washington, DC neighborhood discussion group

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 03:25 PM, Cleveland Park Editor wrote:

The only clear connection I see in all these cases is that the non-member who is receiving the unwanted messages from Groups.io always has an AOL.com email address.

I suspect that it's also only groups that have public archives, but can't confirm that.? Are yours public?? We know Tom's are.

Duane
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Yes, mine are public but only members can post. If it would solve the problem to make them private, I would immediately do that....assuming that setting isn't a permanent choice made upon set-up.

-Peggy

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 08:59 PM, Cleveland Park Editor wrote:

Yes, mine are public but only members can post. If it would solve the problem to make them private, I would immediately do that....assuming that setting isn't a permanent choice made upon set-up.

You can't change from private posts to public posts. It is based on the underlying commitment that you have made to members - that their posts are not freely available on the internet. (My imperfect understanding of it!)

Frances
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Tom,

The person shown in the footer isn't subscribed either.

If you have examples of messages from your group containing an unsubscribe address in the footer that is not (and has not been*) subscribed to your group, I think that is definitely worthy of a #bug report in beta.


No other considerations are needed to know that that is a "can't happen" error - it doesn't matter how the message subsequently was delivered to the person that contacted you. An address in the footer that was not a member of the group at the time the message was sent "can not happen".

Unless some malcontent member is altering them to hide his/her identity. Or what Duane said about crooks copying message content and forging their own footer.

I'd want also to double-check the Received fields in the header as received by that person. Did the message come to her direct from Groups.io, or by way of some forwarding. If she's up to it, have her use this analysis tool and send you a screenshot or copy/paste of the results:


A message forwarded to you is not suitable for analysis - it will only lead back to the person who forwarded it. You need the header of the message as she received it. Some email interfaces (Thunderbird) have a "Forward as attachment" feature which will send you a file containing the original message, header and all. But the chances that she's using such an interface and knows how to use the feature seems slim.

*Double-check the "and has not been" by searching your group's Activity Log for the footer address.

Shal


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I'm having the problem only on my largest group, just over 1 1,000 members.

I had the suspect AOL address subscription problem a while back.? Stopped it by restricting membership, sending a question upon membership application, and deleting suspect addresses which joined before I restricted emmebrships.

I figured that some subscriber or subscribers were redistributing posts.? I set AOL addresses subscribed in the last 7 months to No Mail.? Didn't work:? non-members still complained about getting group mail.

Then I set ALL AOL addresses to No Mail, except those I knew personally or those set to Digest, Summary, or Special Notices.

Still holding my breath, but no complaints for five days (was getting daily complaints, sent as messages to the group - Non-Members posts allowed, but mdoerated).