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This morning a member of a group I own added links to websites in the Databases section. The title of the addition does not match what he uploaded. He posted five entries. One doesn't load, (it returns 'page not found'), three are already in the group's files section. One is an update for a link in a file in the Files Section.

My concern is, the member being able to access and upload to the Database section and that I only found about it after the fact. It's a moderated group and I presumed when a member wants to upload a photo or file it requires approval. It doesn't happen often but as I recall it works that way. How about entries to the Database section? Is there a way to moderate that? I'm worried now, I have no idea what else this member may decide to upload.

This member seems to be a bit -- for lack of a better word -- clueless. He recently replied to a message from 2003. I guess he found it in the archives. The original poster was offering a CD when he had completed it. He never posted anything else about it and I would presume he never finished it. The person offering the CD in 2003 passed away in 2013.

Again, the name of the posted Database entry bears no relationship to what was uploaded. The description has typos and misspellings. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence!

tommy0421

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 11:13 AM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

It's a moderated group and I presumed when a member wants to upload a photo or file it requires approval. It doesn't happen often but as I recall it works that way. How about entries to the Database section?

No, none of those are moderated just because a member is moderated.? It was asked for way back when Groups.io first started.? Even Mark thought it was a good idea, , but it's never been implemented.

Duane
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Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 12:22 PM, Duane wrote:

It's a moderated group and I presumed when a member wants to upload a photo or file it requires approval. It doesn't happen often but as I recall it works that way. How about entries to the Database section?

No, none of those are moderated just because a member is moderated.? It was asked for way back when Groups.io first started.? Even Mark thought it was a good idea, , but it's never been implemented.

Duane, can't the owner stop members editing the databases through settings? -?
/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/customizing-settings-for-premium-and-enterprise-features/database

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Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

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Actually what I would have liked to have been able to do would have been to have approval of the Database entry before it got uploaded. I wouldn't have approved it 'as is' as I don't see any reason to replicate links to websites that already exist in the Files section. Plus they're not databases that were uploaded, they're urls to websites.

However, spurred on by Frances' suggestions,? I discovered I can at least edit the title and description of the database upload (they bore no relationship whatsoever to what was uploaded) and remove the dead-end link. By the way, I should add, we're a basic group, a legacy group that left Yahoo for Groups.io in January 2018.

The sad thing is, only a handful of members (out of 500) ever visit the group's webpage. Of those, only one or two have ever seemed to have looked at the Photo or Files sections. When members have posted about previous discussions, asking if 'anyone remembers,' and I have suggested to them they do an archived message search, they usually reply -- without explanation -- that they're not going do it.?

There was no special notice of the Database upload, the member sent no accompanying message, and I'd be surprised if anyone ever sees it.

tommy421

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 01:02 PM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

Plus they're not databases that were uploaded, they're urls to websites.

A database can be a collection of about anything.? (For groups that were transferred from Yahoo, the Links page was converted to a database on Groups.io.)? From links to web sites to names and addresses.? We use one for favorite restaurants, another for spare parts, and a third for repair shops that we've used.

Duane
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Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 02:02 PM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

Actually what I would have liked to have been able to do would have been to have approval of the Database entry before it got uploaded.

Tommy -- You can turn on/off subscriber access to these features, but there's no way to "moderate" an upload or a database entry, as you can for incoming messages.

Next best thing is probably to turn on a notification to yourself. Click on "Subscription" and scroll down to the "Moderator Notifications" block. You'll find the Databases one at the bottom.

Regards,
Bruce

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Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

Thanks Bruce. I am set up to be notified when a Photo, File or a Database entry is made. I think the reason I was remembering I could approve/disapprove Photos/Files from members is, almost no one visits the web page. If they want to add a photo or file they send it to the group and ask me to download it and then upload it to the Photos or Files section.

Your mention of being able to turn on/off subscriber access to the Database requires going to Settings/Features? The Database in the group I own is already set to "Members can view, moderators can create tables." But that didn't stop the member this morning. Maybe because he didn't add a table, only rows of text?

tommy0421

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 10:30 PM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

Your mention of being able to turn on/off subscriber access to the Database requires going to Settings/Features? The Database in the group I own is already set to "Members can view, moderators can create tables." But that didn't stop the member this morning. Maybe because he didn't add a table, only rows of text?

I checked a database and there are more controls for each database.
Go to Database, click on title. Click on Edit Properties.
There are 4 permissions there.

I use Files and Wiki but not Databases, except as a test. I see in Owner's Help:

Permissions

You can specify whether the Databases feature is available on your group’s website and, if it is, who can view and create/edit tables in the group’s databases. From the Permissions list in the Database section of the panel, select the option you want to use

/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/customizing-settings-for-premium-and-enterprise-features/database

So you can control access in Settings and then in each database.
BTW, I have a free / basic group with databases as a legacy feature.

Frances
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Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Frances wrote:

You can specify whether the Databases feature is available on your group’s website and, if it is, who can view and create/edit tables in the group’s databases...So you can control access in Settings and then in each database.

Thanks for the reply Frances but my group is already set to "Members can view, only moderators can create" for Databases. In the link to the Group Owners Manual in Permissions for Databases that you provided it is clearly stated that this setting is the default setting. When I looked at our group's Database Permissions it still had that setting. Yet somehow this member was able to create and upload a table entry. I did receive a notification but only after the fact. Since the Database feature in my group is already set to members can view, only moderators can create, that they could do that appears to be a bug. When I get time I will take this issue to the Beta group.

It's no big deal, this is the first time in the twenty years the group has been around that there was an entry posted in the Database. But it does appear to be a bug that I feel obligated to bring to Mark's attention.

tommy0421

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 08:56 AM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

Yet somehow this member was able to create and upload a table entry.

Did they create the database or just edit an existing one?? It sounds like the settings for the DB weren't set properly and they edited what had been there.? That could explain the unrelated title and data.? I don't think the DB settings should override the group setting, but they may.? I haven't really played with that aspect.

Duane
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Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

Duane possibly the member only edited the existing database. In doing some more searching I discovered by clicking on "Updated" in the Database section I get a date 01/15/18. This was the day we began our move to Groups.io from Yahoo. At the top of the page is written, "Links imported from Yahoo." Possibly this was something uploaded when we were on YG! years ago and was imported when we moved.

The email notification I got Friday from Groups.io was titled? "Updated Data Base LinksMan's Name." I presumed that was the title the member chose -- especially because of the lack of a space between Links and Man's (actually a member's name which I'm not posting for privacy reasons). The email notification I got from Groups.io also stated: "Description: Links imported from Yahoo." I'm not sure who generated that, Groups.io or the member.

The other oddity is, I'm not sure what the member did that caused Groups.io to issue a notification. The text on the rows, describing the links, doesn't read like something the member would have written. The text is clear, concise and has no typos or misspellings.

?I guess instead of Beta, I'll have to email the member and ask then what they did. :)

tommy0421

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 01:10 PM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

was titled? "Updated Data Base LinksMan's Name." I presumed that was the title the member chose -- especially because of the lack of a space between Links and Man's

That's likely a glitch in the system where a space isn't inserted like it should be.? It's happened on other notifications/messages.? I'd report it as a #bug on beta.

stated: "Description: Links imported from Yahoo."

That's the description of the DB that was used at import, so Groups.io put it in the message.

The other oddity is, I'm not sure what the member did that caused Groups.io to issue a notification.

In the Activity Log, search on the Modified Row action to see which row was edited.

Duane
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Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

Thanks for the information Duane. I will put in a bug report on Beta.

An activity search for my group only shows one row modified -the one I deleted that was a dead end. I can't find anything else. I tried searching with multiple keywords but came up empty. I was especially hoping to find the date when the database entry was first put in. I'm sure the notation "imported from Yahoo" means it was originally uploaded back when we were still a Yahoo group. That being the case, it doesn't seem too surprising there is no record in the activity log.

tommy0421

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 09:56 AM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

Thanks for the reply Frances but my group is already set to "Members can view, only moderators can create" for Databases. In the link to the Group Owners Manual in Permissions for Databases that you provided it is clearly stated that this setting is the default setting.

Perhaps I found a bug since I think that the Settings should control editing of all databases. However I just tested with a non-moderator email, and even though the group setting is set to Members can view, Moderators can create, and owner's help says:
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Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

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Frances wrote:

But in fact, members can edit the database tables unless each database is further locked down.
Using my member-only email, I can edit table properties, add rows, edit rows and more.

If I edit permissions on the individual table (table properties) so that the only thing a member can do is view the table, it does stop editing except by moderators and table owner.

Thanks for looking into this Frances. Great work. Using a test membership in the group I own (a test membership with member-only status) I found the same. I could edit the table -- change the name, edit the description -- and edit/add rows.

Then using my owner's account I went to the page for the Database selected and opened the Edit Table Properties box at the top left of the page.? I discovered the "Edit Table," "Add Rows" and "Edit Rows" were all set to "Members."? (Remember, in "Settings," the Database is set to "Members can view, moderators can create tables.") I then changed the settings to the most restrictive: I changed the "Edit Table" and "Add Rows" to "Moderator and Table Owner,"? I set "Edit Rows" to "Moderator, Table Owner and the Row Owner." After saving the "update" I revisited with my member-only account. Then there was only one option and that was to export the table in JSON format or CSV format.

I agree, IF this is the way it is supposed to work then the Owner's Manual needs to be revised accordingly.

tommy0421