I woke up this morning and am no longer the owner.? I had to different emails as such both have been deleted.? Why?? I want my group back.

Jim Allen

[email protected]

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 01:04 PM, Jim Allen wrote:

I woke up this morning and am no longer the owner.? I had to different emails as such both have been deleted.? Why?? I want my group back.

I see that the last post by you on your group was July 15.?
Are there other owners? Groups.io won't allow an owner to withdraw if there isn't.
What happens when you send an email to:
[email protected]

Frances
?
--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

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Hi Jim, did you have somebody else as another owner? If so, they may have accidentally removed you perhaps? You might want to reach out to that individual.

I had two separate email accounts set up for just this reason and it looks like both are gone!!!!

Jim

So who and how do I contact anyone to correct this?? ?It looks like i was removed for marking something spam.? ?NEVER DONE THAT!

Who can actually help?? I have reapplied to the group, but no one there to approve me!

This sucks!!

JIm Allen

Sun, 06 Aug 2023 10:11:03 -0700, "Frances" <frances@...>, wrote:

Are there other owners? Groups.io won't allow an owner to withdraw if there isn't.
What happens when you send an email to:
[email protected]
Frances

After adding my new eMail snetram@... as owner at [email protected] I
deleted the old one snetram@.... After that all my groups disappeared.
I was the only owner at [email protected] and cannot join.

I am a little disappointed as I have written twice before about this but never
saw my post here or any reply to it or got a message the moderators rejected it.

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I woke up this morning and am no longer the owner.? I had to different emails as such both have been deleted.? Why?? I want my group back.

(this part posted on Group_Help)
On 2023-08-06 14:45, Jim Allen via groups.io wrote:

So who and how do I contact anyone to correct this?? ?It looks like i was removed for marking something spam.? ?NEVER DONE THAT!
Who can actually help?? I have reapplied to the group, but no one there to approve me!

You didn't told us this bit, i.e. that you received an email from groups.io stating you were "removed because of spam".? It is important to provide all info when trying to troubleshoot issues as it will help fix the problem better and faster.? Here's the pertaining info from the manual:
/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-group-messages/responding-to-a-you-have-been-removed

This doesn't mean you did it, the ISP's spam filter most likely thought one message from your group was "spammy" and marked it as spam and due to the feedback loop mechanism groups.io was notified and removed you from the group.? Alternatively, you did it but accidentally, many online email clients place the Delete and Spam/Junk button right next to each other so it's easy to click the wrong one by mistake.

In either case, find that email and click on the resubscribe link in it and your account should be reinstated, although not sure about this since said you reapplied to the group, I don't think we've run into this before.

While at it, look in your spam/junk folder (should do that once a week or so in any case) and if you find any messages from groups.io in there mark them as not spam/junk and if they don't get automatically moved to the inbox, move them there manually.? This should train the spam filter to not route groups.io messages there.? You can also whitelist groups.io, google how to do this for msn.com email.

Finally, one trick admins do is create a second admin account to use for fixing things in the case the primary admin account has problems.? When your main admin account is reinstated, create another account somewhere, maybe Gmail so it's separate from MSN, then add it to the group as a second (backup) owner.

Cheers,
Christos

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 02:23 PM, Jim Allen wrote:

So who and how do I contact anyone to correct this?? ?It looks like i was removed for marking something spam.? ?NEVER DONE THAT!

Who can actually help?

In that case, it's up to you to fix things.? If you were actually removed from the group, then there's another owner that could help you.? If the only other owner is also an email address of yours, then you may need to log in with it.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

Duane,
I had two emails pointing to this group. Every initial post is and has been approved by the owner or moderator. All return replies are addressed to the original sender.?

this a very active group. The history has my email all over in it. ?I have no access to it. I need to talk to someone at groups.io. ?It would be an easy fix.?

help please.?

jim?

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 03:19 PM, Jim Allen wrote:

I had two emails pointing to this group...? I have no access to it.

Since you were removed for marking a message as spam, even though it may have been your email provider that actually did it, then it's up to you to reinstate yourself.? A message was sent to you when you were removed, so just click on the link in it.? It could be in your spam/junk folder as Christos said.? If those were the only 2 owners, then both of them would not have been removed.? Groups.io will never remove the last owner.? Have you logged in with both email addresses?

I need to talk to someone at groups.io.

There is only 1 'someone' at groups.io and he's on vacation for a few days.? You'll either need to fix it yourself, as is intended, or wait for him to get back.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

I found the email and clicked the link to be added back to the group. Nothing happened other than I got an email that said my membership is waiting for approval. Frustrating. I was in the process of adding another individual as a moderator.

I don’t know what else to do but get assistance. ? I will have to wait for it I guess.?

?

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 07:25 PM, Jim Allen wrote:

I don’t know what else to do but get assistance.

Sign in with the other account that you have as an owner.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

Duane,

Jim already said:

On Aug 6, 2023, at 12:22 PM, Jim Allen <jimp72@...> wrote:

I had two separate email accounts set up for just this reason and it looks like both are gone!!!!

Jim

So, he has no alternate owner to approve his reinstatement. At the start, I thought rejoining was the easy route, but needing an owner approval makes that impossible. I’m surprised the system allows a group to be left without ANY owner.

Ken N
Oxnard, CA

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 09:55 PM, Ken N wrote:

So, he has no alternate owner to approve his reinstatement. At the start, I thought rejoining was the easy route, but needing an owner approval makes that impossible. I’m surprised the system allows a group to be left without ANY owner.

Ken, Duane suggested that he sign in with his second account. Both would not be removed.?
As Duane also wrote: ?"If those were the only 2 owners, then both of them would not have been removed. ?Groups.io will never remove the last owner. ?Have you logged in with both email addresses?"

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Playing software engineer...?

Wonder if there's a race condition here?? Both of the owner's email accounts got a message at about the same time, each rejecting it as Spam.? Two different Groups.io administrative threads started working on the Spam removal receipts in parallel, each checking whether their email was the last owner, and each (seeing the other was still there) allowing the removal?? When each thread ends, their owner is gone; having two threads in parallel removed both.?

Just a thought...? no idea if this is how it actually works.

Greg

Jim . . .

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 09:40:05 -0700, "Jim Allen" <jimp72@...> wrote:

I woke up this morning and am no longer the owner. I had to different emails as such both have been deleted.

I don't think you answered the question about whether your group had a third
owner (or even more) or not???


Donald



----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP

Frances . . .

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 18:57:25 -0700, "Frances" <frances@...> wrote:

Ken, Duane suggested that he sign in with his second account. Both would not be removed.

Jim still has not told us whether there was a third, fourth, or even more
owners. If there were, then one of them deleted him IF he can't log in with
either of his admin accounts. If he can log in with his other admin account, he
should be able to rectify the situation himself.

We can't do much of anything for him until we know if he can log in with his
other admin account and if his group had more than 2 owners (him being the 2).


Donald KX8K



----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP

开云体育

On 08-06-2023 09:40, Jim Allen wrote:

I woke up this morning and am no longer the owner. I had to different emails as such both have been deleted. Why? I want my group back.

My immediate thought was that a rogue co-owner had co-opted the group and had locked the OP out. While this may or may not be the actual case, the possibility exists.

Group ownership has been discussed (and beaten to death?), here and in the beta group.
Some changes were made but, at least for me, not satisfactorily. Orphaned groups continue to pop up - not all due to laziness, procrastination or ignorance of the owners. I suspect many owners are reticent to create co-owners just for this very reason - there is nothing to prevent one owner from locking another owner out and stealing or destroying the group.

In this day and age of internet nasties, nefarious forum attacks/activities may not be at the top of the list but they do exist. These forums, by definition, span the globe and most members/owners have never met face to face. So for a group founder who has nurtured his baby into a viable community and is needing to have the safety of a co-owner, who can he trust? How can he assure that someone he promotes to co-ownership doesn't steal his group? (And still be stuck with automatic payment if that had been setup?) With the current system, he can't. I suspect that that is the main reason a significant number of groups do not have a co-owner and may become orphan groups (with more to come in the future).

I propose a new category for group permissions: Founder.

A founder would have identical rights and permissions as a regular group owner but with these differences:

? There can be only one founder per group
? Founder status can only be removed or transferred to another by a founder
? Founder status is automatically conferred onto the creator of a new group
? The existence of a founder is not required for a group

That should ensure that a group Founder would never be unwillingly locked out of a group he founded. It, hopefully, would also increase the compliance with creating co-owners and decrease orphaned groups. This could be implemented without upsetting the status quo of permissions and ownerships.

To get started, owners of existing groups with a single owner could promote themselves to founder status. For existing groups with a single RL owner but with multiple "owner" addresses, the owner could temporarily demote all "owners" but one in order to establish "Foundership" status. For existing groups with multiple RL owners, a "Founder" is probably not necessary nor desired. To change the address of a Founder, he could create a new regular owner and then transfer "Foundership" status to that address.

Comments?

BTW: "Groups.io will never remove the last owner."

"will" is better replaced by "should". We all have experienced the difference between what code "should do" and what actually can occur (although at this point that would be quite rare). Greg D outlined one such possibility.

Art

On 08-06-2023 16:51, Jim Allen wrote:

I don't know what else to do but get assistance. I will have to wait for it I guess.

Not to be snarky but you could try to explicitly and completely answer the questions posed by people trying to help you. Such as:

? Are there other owners or moderators?
? Can you log onto Groups.io?
? What are the details of the SPAM removal message(s)?
? What can you do and not do with your group?
? Other questions that have been asked or other useful info

Art