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Groups.io mail still going into SPAM folder

 

We're getting a lot of the members in our mailing list (8.5K+) reporting email is going into their spam folders.? I'm experiencing the same thing and my email is hosting by Google (with my own domain).

I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).

Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem?? Are the DKIM certs up to date?

Frank
 

Hi Frank,

I've had this issue with my business email, unfortunately it's google being google.

All my business emails are sent from a fully authenticated (DKIM, SPF and DMARC) professional anti spam service with a great IP reputation, yet in GMail 90% of our emails end up in SPAM.

Kind regards,


K¨¦vin Costelloe
Always remember to pillage before you burn.
Threema : 3XMN8PC | Modem :?+1 (416) 548-4117
@mmn@...

Envoy¨¦ depuis ProtonMail mobile



-------- Message d'origine --------
On 14 mars 2019 ¨¤ 16:47, Frank Greco < fgreco@... > a ¨¦crit?:

We're getting a lot of the members in our mailing list (8.5K+) reporting email is going into their spam folders.? I'm experiencing the same thing and my email is hosting by Google (with my own domain).

I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).

Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem?? Are the DKIM certs up to date?

Frank
Roleigh Martin
 
Edited

If you create a gmail filter rule for?@ to never go to spam, does it work?

[Unneeded link trimmed by Moderator]


On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 10:41 AM K¨¦vin COSTELLOE via Groups.Io <kevin=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Frank,

I've had this issue with my business email, unfortunately it's google being google.

All my business emails are sent from a fully authenticated (DKIM, SPF and DMARC) professional anti spam service with a great IP reputation, yet in GMail 90% of our emails end up in SPAM.

Kind regards,


K¨¦vin Costelloe
Always remember to pillage before you burn.
Threema : 3XMN8PC | Modem :?+1 (416) 548-4117
@mmn@...

Envoy¨¦ depuis ProtonMail mobile



-------- Message d'origine --------
On 14 mars 2019 ¨¤ 16:47, Frank Greco < fgreco@... > a ¨¦crit?:

We're getting a lot of the members in our mailing list (8.5K+) reporting email is going into their spam folders.? I'm experiencing the same thing and my email is hosting by Google (with my own domain).
?
I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).
?
Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem?? Are the DKIM certs up to date?
?
Frank

?

?
Jim Higgins
 

Received from Frank Greco at 3/14/2019 03:47 PM UTC:

We're getting a lot of the members in our mailing list (8.5K+) reporting groups.io email is going into their spam folders. I'm experiencing the same thing and my email is hosting by Google (with my own domain).

I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).

Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem?

Yes... with no intent to be a smartass... use a domain/hosting/email service other than Google. They're too big to care how many problems their filtering decisions cause... as months worth of help requests here indicate. The only solution is to vote with your wallet/feet by going elsewhere.

Jim H
 

I've been managing/owning selveral groups for close to 4 years at groups.io
The largest is almost 3500 and has been close to that for 15 of the 20 years of its' existence
Our monthly new member intake is roughly 60 and we lose up to 8% of members per month.
I scanned the last 100 Past members
  • The most recent one was February 26, 2019 and was not gmail but was Yahoo
  • There are several Yahoo, Verizon and other Yahoo hosted ATT domains left for spam but no gmail accounts.
We thought about hosting at google but decided it was to complicated.? I'm so glad we didn't

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends??
Founder & Executive Director,?
 
Edited

Frank,

?
I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).
?
My experience using Gmail with Groups.io has been excellent, Jim's comments notwithstanding. Gmail's filters almost never classify something I wanted as Spam, or vice-versa.
?
I don't know if using a hosted domain makes things different for you.
?
?
Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem??
?
What one should always do in this circumstance: check your spam folder from time to time, and mark as Not Spam anything that landed in there that shouldn't have - especially any email list messages.
?
With some email services I might hesitate to claim that will work, but my experience with Gmail's spam classifier is that it does learn, and quickly, when I explicitly mark a message as Not Spam. I have
?
Are the DKIM certs up to date?
?
Yes.
?
In Gmail's UI use the Show original menu item to check out any message you've received from Groups.io. It will show you at the top the authentication results:

SPF: PASS with IP 66.175.222.12
DKIM: 'PASS' with domain groups.io

Shal

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I have about 8.5K members in my community (on Groups.io).? Our mailing list emails are sent from Groups.io.
I have no control on what email provider our community members use (as you would expect).
?
Yes, I can easily create a filter for myself, but that doesn't address the bigger problem of my community.? Many members are reporting Groups.io email goes into their spam folders.? So its a major problem.
?
I should have made that clear in my original post.? Sorry about that.? ?Just wanted to know if this is an issue with DKIM on the Groups.io side, something on the gmail side or something else.
?
Frank


On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 2:52 PM Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
If you create a gmail filter rule for?@ to never go to spam, does it work?
-------------------------------------------------

_

[excess quotes trimmed by moderator]

--

Frank Greco
?(t) ? (g) 732-639-0990
 

Shal . . .

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:19:24 -0700, "Shal Farley" <shals2nd@...>
wrote:

What one should always do in this circumstance: check your spam folder from time to time, and mark as Not Spam anything that landed in there that shouldn't have - especially any email list messages. With some email services I might hesitate to claim that will work, but my experience with Gmail's spam classifier is that it does learn, and quickly, when I explicitly mark a message as Not Spam.

This seems to work in Postbox (built on Thunderbird) with Gmail, too,
and not just when using the web interface for Gmail. Have you fond
that to be the case with Thunderbird, which I believe you use for
Gmail retrieval?

Donald
 

I appreciate the response Shal.
?
I'm probably not explaining my issue properly.? I am using Groups.io to send email to the members of my (user group) community.? There's about 8.5k members, ie, a lot.
They all have their own email providers that's way out of my control.? ?When email is sent from Groups.io to my members (who are all registered on Groups.io), many users report our emails are found in their SPAM folders.
I have found my own Groups.io email in my SPAM folder.? ?Clearly I can train my gmail's ML back-end to recognize the emails as legitimate.? However this does not address the other users out there; some don't even know they have an email from our group because its in their SPAM folder.
?
Any suggestions are more than?welcome.
?
Frank
?
?

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 7:24 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

Frank,

?
I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).
?
My experience using Gmail with Groups.io has been excellent, Jim's comments notwithstanding. Gmail's filters almost never classify something I wanted as Spam, or vice-versa.
?
I don't know if using a hosted domain makes things different for you.
?
?
Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem??
?
What one should always do in this circumstance: check your spam folder from time to time, and mark as Not Spam anything that landed in there that shouldn't have - especially any email list messages.
?
With some email services I might hesitate to claim that will work, but my experience with Gmail's spam classifier is that it does learn, and quickly, when I explicitly mark a message as Not Spam. I have
?
Are the DKIM certs up to date?
?
Yes.
?
In Gmail's UI use the Show original menu item to check out any message you've received from Groups.io. It will show you at the top the authentication results:
SPF: PASS with IP 66.175.222.12
DKIM: 'PASS' with domain

Shal

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?
 

Frank,


I'm probably not explaining my issue properly.

I think you've been perfectly clear.

Clearly I can train my gmail's ML back-end to recognize the emails as legitimate.? However this does not address the other users out there;

What I'm saying is that the same applies to them.

There is nothing you can do, and not much further Groups.io can do, to influence their email services' decisions about whether or where to deliver your group's messages. It is up to each member to use whatever tools his/her service gives them to assure delivery of list messages into into his/her Inbox.

I only focused on Gmail because that's the email service I use and know. Plus I was somewhat taken aback that some others here report experiences so different than mine. In the past I haven't been shy about recommending a change of email service when you find that your service just can't/won't deliver messages that you signed up for.

But first of course you should understand how your service is supposed to work, and use the tools it has; otherwise changing services may take you out of the frying pan and into the fire.


Any suggestions are more than?welcome.

Get the word out to affected members if you can.

Shal



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It is easy to set up a gmail account settings so it passes all messages through.? Then use a spam filter at your end to filter things.? I use Mailwasher Pro in front of Thunderbird and have not had any problems with messages from groups.io





Bruce Wilson
Barrie, Ontario, Canada

On 3/14/2019 16:20, Jim Higgins wrote:
Received from Frank Greco at 3/14/2019 03:47 PM UTC:

We're getting a lot of the members in our mailing list (8.5K+) reporting groups.io email is going into their spam folders. I'm experiencing the same thing and my email is hosting by Google (with my own domain).

I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).

Is there anything we can do to alleviate this problem?

Yes... with no intent to be a smartass... use a domain/hosting/email service other than Google. They're too big to care how many problems their filtering decisions cause... as months worth of help requests here indicate. The only solution is to vote with your wallet/feet by going elsewhere.

Jim H
Gerald Boutin
 

I'm not disagreeing with what you described. However, the article you referenced is from 2008 and I don't find the conclusions applicable today. IMHO, I find that Gmail does a good enough job at Spam filtering that I don't see a need to use an outboard filter. My Outlook 2010 PC client also gives me access to the Gmail Spam folder for when I look at email in Outlook.

Your mileage may vary of course.

--
Gerald
Jim Higgins
 

Received from Frank Greco at 3/15/2019 02:31 AM UTC:

Clearly I can train my gmail's ML back-end to recognize the emails as legitimate. However this does not address the other users out there; some don't even know they have an email from our group because its in their SPAM folder. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

The problem isn't with Groups.io so there's nothing that can be done on the Groups.io end of things... and Google isn't going to change as far as overly aggressive spam filtering goes... so I suggest that since you know how to check your spam folder and how to mark good messages found there as not spam... that you educate your users on how to do the same. Even if some/many of them are no more tech savvy than a brick, they should be able to follow step by step (click by click) instructions... and will be far more inclined to do so if told at the same time that it isn't a Groups.io problem and that following those instructions is their only hope for improvement.

Of course, the instructions have to make it past the GMail spam filter... :-(

Jim H
 

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 11:05 AM, Jim Higgins wrote:
Of course, the instructions have to make it past the GMail spam filter... :-(
Or, as owner, they can download their members' email addresses and send the mail from their personal email address to get around the blockage of groups.io's transmissions by the receivers.
?
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends??
Founder & Executive Director,?
 

On 3/14/2019 7:19 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Frank,
I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a
Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).
My experience using Gmail with Groups.io has been excellent, Jim's comments notwithstanding. Gmail's filters almost never classify something I wanted as Spam, or vice-versa.
I don't know if using a hosted domain makes things different for you.
One more data point: I have a regular Gmail account and a Google hosted domain account, both subscribed to different lists at groups.io, and I don't have spam problems with either one.

--
Bill
 

Appreciate the help.? Sounds like a mostly-no-win situation in the short term and education in the long-term.

Frank

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:35 PM Bill Burns <billb@...> wrote:
On 3/14/2019 7:19 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
> Frank,
>
>? ? ?I believe most people that have this problem are using gmail or a
>? ? ?Google-hosted domain (presumably the same infrastructure).
>
> My experience using Gmail with Groups.io has been excellent, Jim's
> comments notwithstanding. Gmail's filters almost never classify
> something I wanted as Spam, or vice-versa.
> I don't know if using a hosted domain makes things different for you.

One more data point: I have a regular Gmail account and a Google hosted
domain account, both subscribed to different lists at , and I
don't have spam problems with either one.

--
Bill





--

Frank Greco
?(t) ? (g) 732-639-0990

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