As new moderators of a 20-year-old group that has migrated from Yahoo,? we have some questions about the below listed restricted dedicated groups and content.

We decided to open a subgroup for OT discussion from the main group mission. We hoped to have an open dialogue on various topics that might include but are not specific to? politics, health, etc.? As it turns out, some of our more vocal members have alternative views and post information and links to support the info they share. Our subgroup is not dedicated to any of the below-restricted groups or content.? However, some of these subjects do arise and our members would like to share and discuss them openly without restriction. They feel that that the groupsio definition of "restricted groups and content" is too vague and undefined, leaving the members and moderators to decide arbitrarily what is acceptable and what is a violation. They feel moderation can and will be based on moderators' own personal predilections. They feel censured and unsure of what is appropriate to post. And moderators are unsure of what discussions will be seen as violating groupsio restricted content. Members have demanded, tongue in cheek, for a list of approved topics...Definitions of conspiracy theories, hoaxes, and approved sources.? They are a lively bunch.

As a moderator, we see value in the sharing and discussion of information that falls into some of the restricted categories to be discussed, questioned, and debated. Otherewise they head back to the echo chambers. But I am worried there will be repercussions of some sort if topics or content crosses the somewhat invisible lines? The priority is the Main list and its mission. We would let the discussion happen, as long as it remains civil and respectful, and take our chances. But not if it can affect our Main group or our good standing on groups.io.? It would help to know what the repercussions might be so we can let the members know. They need to know that the moderators are not moderating willy nilly.?

My questions are:

• If we allow open discussion in our subgroup of topics related to politics and health, which may fall into the categories listed below, will we be violating the iogroups guidelines?
• What makes a group or subgroup" dedicated or promotion of"?
• What happens to groups that accidentally violate these guidelines? Can consequences affect the Main-group? Is a warning issued??
• How does iogroups know what's being discussed? Can it see the conversations??

Our priority is our Main group which has a very narrow focus, with no issue.
We opened the subgroup so people that connect in one area can discuss more freely in other areas not specific to the main group, as not to distract from the mission.? We didn't realize that there were groups.io restrictions and we did not realize that our members would want to discuss things that broached those categories. We as moderators are looking for clarity to help guide our members and ourselves.?

We welcome any thoughts and information and experience that this group can share! Thank you in advance.?



/helpcenter/faq/1/group-owner-moderator-faq/q-what-types-of-groups-are-not

A:?Groups.io does not permit these types of groups and content:

• Pornography, adult content, or nudity
• Harassment of any kind
• Groups that share media or content whose distribution would be in violation of copyright law
• Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including, but not limited to, the alt-right
• Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to, Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon
• Groups dedicated to the promotion of anti-vaccination ideologies
• Groups that are designed strictly to use the Groups.io directory as an advertisement for something other than the group itself

For what it's worth:

I disagree with your prise that the rules are vague.? You have to parse the clauses.? There's a very clear difference between members openly "discussing" Pizzagate, and the group itself's?purpose being "dedicated to promoting" Pizzagate.?

There's no confusing those two unless the group itself is "promoting" and is indeed attempting to disguise it as "discussing."? Moderating the posts would in itself demonstrate that it is openly discussing, not promoting (ass/u/ing that the moderation is leaning toward the truth and not fiction.)

No one has any right not to be censured on a private chat or email group or media platform. It pertains to government control.? If a member is off-base as to the group owners' rules, and the posting is controlled (moderated, censured, whatever you want to call it,) then too damn bad.? Either conform to the rules or pack your bags.? Start your own discussion on Parler.? Newspapers censure every minute -- editors control which off-base and whacko 'letters to the editor' get printed and which do not.? No one has a Constitutional right to have nonsense and hate and outright lies spewed froth without repercussions.? That only protected speech in the committees and subcommittees of Congress hearings!!

It seems to me that the group owners need to tighten and narrow down whatever rules for the subgroup, rather than expect GIO to do the hard work.? ?Post the Webster definitions of "promote" vs "discuss" in the subgroup rules (with examples if appropriate) and enforce them, with an explanation if necessary.? Moderating is like parenting, or at least what parenting used to be.

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Erynn,

I think Ken hit it on the head; I wouldn't worry too much about this, provided your subgroup is genuinely discussing something vs promoting it, and it really does come down to concise rules and their application, to keep folks in line and keep the peace.

You are (kinda) right insofar that (some of) the rules are (somewhat) "vague" but that's by design; there is no practical way one can create an explicit list that accounts for everything that is and is not allowed in such a wildly-diverse universe that GIO is.

Don't forget there's some grey area in terms of the actual usage reality in this universe; e.g., "No Pornography, adult content, or nudity".? I guarantee you there is plenty of "pornography", i.e. adult content, or nudity being shared daily in the form of written or meme jokes, cartoons, attached images/scans of nude playboy centerfolds, nude calendar pics, etc; all one needs is a private group and a closed circle/group of like-minded people.? Or "Groups that share media or content whose distribution would be in violation of copyright law"; pfft, I again guarantee you that there are plenty of groups where folks share scanned copyrighted material, albeit for research or assistance purposes, but sometimes to a degree that's skirting -and in some cases technically breaking- copyright laws.? Model-building and similar groups do this a lot, I belong to a few of those groups and I know!? Or "Groups that are designed strictly to use the Groups.io directory as an advertisement for something other than the group itself", I bet there are groups that are cleverly (and carefully) using the group for advertising and profiting purposes, probably seriously-skirting or even crossing the boundary line, and they haven't been caught yet.

I also suspect that, while Mark more than likely does have some active auditing processes to catch blatantly-obvious violations, something like a specific keyword filter could return a ton of messages and I bet he has better things to do that going through each message to determine if it's a genuine discussion vs a promoting message; I mean a search for the word "qanon" for example in all of GIO's message archives would return a ton of messages, most -if not all- innocent messages that just used the word in some innocent context.? I highly doubt GIO has AI filtering/auditing code like (or to the extend of) FB or Tweeter does, but I could be wrong.

I don't know what the process is when someone reports a group but I'd think that, at the very least, nothing happens to the group itself for now, at the very worst, the group gets locked and hidden temporarily, until Mark looks into the report.? If the report was malicious, i.e. someone did it out of spite or to cause trouble, I'd think the group would be reinstated with no problems, and then it would be up to the mods to unleash their wrath on the person who caused this (unnecessary) trouble.? So like Shal suggested, make the rules (and consequences of not following them) crystal clear to the members.? Then moderate the group and discussion and you'll be fine.

Cheers,
Christos

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On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:20 AM, Erynn Albert wrote:

We welcome any thoughts and information and experience that this group can share!

I have no direct experience with it, but based on the evidence, it's only groups that rely on one of the forbidden types as their main intent that get shut down or removed.? If you look at /search?p=SubsCount,,,20,1,0,0 you can see about 25 groups (with 0 members) that have been disabled for violating TOS.? Most of them seem to be for copyright violations, though a few are obviously (to me) for other reasons.? As was mentioned, you could contact support for a direct answer, but I suspect discussion is acceptable.

Duane
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