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Our transfer went fine a couple weeks ago. Have had some activity with posting messages from various members. Everything seems fairly normal. When the transfer was completed it, the message I got was “Bounced Members (Skipped): 0”?

Once we started sending messages, I noticed about 6 or 7 members were bouncing. That has been the case pretty much every day for those 6 or 7 members ?until today. This evening I now have 97 bouncing members and almost all of them have??addresses.?

And the latest bounces started at 5:36PM and it says “Email to “ is bouncing via the system. However, no emails have been sent since yesterday.?

I’m a little puzzled. Anyone have some guidance?

Thanks,

Bob Miller

Bob,

members until today. This evening I now have 97 bouncing members and
almost all of them have Yahoo.com addresses.

Interesting. But I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it.

And the latest bounces started at 5:36PM and it says “Email to“ is
bouncing via the system. However, no emails have been sent since
yesterday.

Bouncing is tracked for the email address across all groups. So the bouncing in those cases may have been triggered by messages in some other group.

Check the members' Email Delivery History to see what you can learn. It won't tell you much if the bounce was triggered by a different group (privacy), but the rejection could also be of a message from your group, long delayed by Yahoo Mail.

Shal


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Bob / and other GMF members:

I'd put my forum into the queue on October 19, and got the notification email on?Saturday, November 2 that the migration was completed.?

However, out of a list of 1374 members, I see in my "statistics" that "282 email addresses were not added because they were bouncing."

That seems a bit high. I'm not sure if it's because they were Yahoo.com email addresses which are no longer being used (and thus bouncing), or the member's email address host had been bouncing messages from Yahoogroups....? I know a long while back I had that happen with one mail provider and whenever it happened I had to go into my user settings on Yahoogroups and force it to?send a new message in?order to clear out that "bouncing" notification.?

After the migration I only ended up with 1085 members in my group on groups.io -- and from Saturday on, I've been getting notifications like this:

"This is to notify you that user@... has left your group [nameofgroup]@groups.io."

I'm not clear why this is happening. It may be because these are not regular participants, who aren't aware the forum is moving, and they were confused about the message they received from this new group with the same name now on groups.io.... or they may truly have decided this is the time to "unsubscribe."??

The total of these "X has now left your group" email addresses is now at 22.? I can write these former members individually or as a group via a note on the old Yahoogroups forum and make sure they intended to leave -- but how can if figure out which 282 were "bouncing" to help them with migrating to this new version of the group on Groups.io?

Is there any easy way to do that??

David

David,

That seems a bit high. I'm not sure if it's because they were
Yahoo.com email addresses which are no longer being used (and thus
bouncing), or he member's email address host had been bouncing
messages from Yahoogroups....

The exact cause is that they were listed on the Bouncing tab of the Members list in the Yahoo Group.

It may be either too high or too low, depending on circumstance. The rejection tracking mechanism in Yahoo Groups has been broken for some time, so that list will likely contain both false positives and false negatives.

"This is to notify you that user@... has left your group ...

These would be people who received the "You've been added" notice and chose to opt out. Or people who unsubscribed later. For whatever reason, you can only speculate unless you contact them.

... but how can if figure out which 282 were "bouncing" to help them
with migrating to this new version of the group on Groups.io?

Probably the majority of those are actually "dead" email addresses. But in there may be some false positives, addresses that are now functional, but weren't at some point, as well as addresses that might reject all Yahoo Group messages but be functional otherwise.

You could try to address this by exporting the Bouncing list from your Yahoo Group and send each of those addresses an inquiry using your personal email to find out which ones work and which don't.

Or, Invite that list to your Groups.io group. The bounce tracking done by Groups.io will immediately identify which of those rejected the Invitation. Having a Premium group, you could do the same test using the Direct Add page, however the downside is that then you've needlessly added a bunch of bouncing addresses to your Members list.

You are also likely to see some number of false negatives: addresses that were bad, but not detected by Yahoo Groups. Those have likely already been put into Bouncing status in your Groups.io group, as a result of rejecting the "you've been added" notice and/or your group's Welcome notice.

Shal


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On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 05:11 AM, David Riecks wrote:

...got the notification email on?Saturday, November 2 that the migration was completed.?

However, out of a list of 1374 members, I see in my "statistics" that "282 email addresses were not added because they were bouncing."

(I would have quoted other parts but don't want to "overquote".)

I suspect that your experience is not untypical; we had a similar experience when we migrated nearly 2 years ago. As well as accumulating "bouncers" we had quite a number who baled out shortly after the move and more than a few who "were removed for marking a message as spam". I suspect that you still have that joy to come, so if you get the chance please have a read here. (From the GMF wiki)

Over time group members lose interest and perhaps put themselves on No Email, but never quite get around to leaving "just in case" and the migration to Groups.io serves as a trigger to finally step down. Some, unfortunately, pass away but their addresses remain listed and sooner or late start bouncing. Some change email addresses at some point and forget to implement that change in long - forgotten groups.

Although it can be tedious it may be worth checking each bouncing member's entries in the Activity Log; it would not surprise me in the least to hear that many of the bouncers / leavers have little or no activity, or at least no recent activity.

FWIW at the time of writing "my" group of 2215 members has 182 listed as bouncing; every now and then I have a purge and delete them completely, usually after checking the log as outlined above. The number will then slowly creep up again.

In short I don't think your experience is in any way unusual. IMHO there is no point in having an impressive number of members if a "significant" proportion of them are inactive or moribund... or no longer with us.

Chris

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 09:20 PM, Bob Miller wrote:

Once we started sending messages, I noticed about 6 or 7 members were bouncing. That has been the case pretty much every day for those 6 or 7 members ?until today. This evening I now have 97 bouncing members and almost all of them have??addresses.?

Bob -- Several months ago, Yahoo began deleting "inactive" email accounts (those that haven't been used to SEND mail for some time).?

See?/g/GroupManagersForum/message/18246?for details on how such an account will look when you check its bounce report.

Losing 25-30% of your members to bouncing and unsubscribing and things like that is pretty normal, and a transfer to groups.io is a good way to purge all the deadwood.?While many group owners are proud of their numbers, I'd rather have a dozen people who actually bother to contribute than 1000 lurkers.?

Regards,
Bruce

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 09:20 PM, Bob Miller wrote:

And the latest bounces started at 5:36PM and it says “Email to “ is bouncing via the system. However, no emails have been sent since yesterday.?

I’m a little puzzled. Anyone have some guidance?

Bob -- As Shal implied, bouncing is an account status, not a subscription status.?As a group owner, you cannot view bounce reports for messages originating from other groups, but the subscriber himself can get a full account of all his bounced messages at?/account?page=bounces

Please note that bouncing status can also be affected by the failed delivery of notifications, confirmation emails and so on, not just group posts. More details on this than you probably ever wanted to know can be found at?/static/help#bouncing

Regards,
Bruce

I've got a question about bouncing email messages that is not addressed on the help page.

My group migrated from yahoogroups.com last month. Roughly 35% of the members have yahoo.com email addresses. A very few of these (four people so far) showed up as hard bounces? after we moved to groups.io, even though yahoogroups.com's status report says they have never bounced at all. I have asked them to re-enroll with non-yahoo addresses.

Here's my question. I have seen soft bounces on seven other accounts. One of those is at mac.com. The other six are all at Yahoo! (or old Baby Bell affiliated) addresses. And these six bounce incidents all occurred at the same node on the internet: 66.175.222.12. I did a WHOIS lookup, and this ip address is assigned to LINODE LLC, a provider of virtualization services.

Does anyone know if groups.io has a procedure for notifying a big internet service provider like LINODE LLC that one of their servers is mis-configured? I would try contacting them myself, but they probably won't listen to me. I've been down that road before, and it can be very difficult to convince a random tech support guy that I know just as much about computers as he does. I see that their "Admin" email address is listed as dns@..., and that the ICANN registrant is named Christopher Akers.

Thanks!
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David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
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On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:28 AM, David Bryant wrote:

Here's my question. I have seen soft bounces on seven other accounts. One of those is at mac.com. The other six are all at Yahoo! (or old Baby Bell affiliated) addresses. And these six bounce incidents all occurred at the same node on the internet: 66.175.222.12. I did a WHOIS lookup, and this ip address is assigned to LINODE LLC, a provider of virtualization services.

David -- I think you've somehow misinterpreted the bounce report. That IP address is groups.io's, and Linode is the company providing groups.io's hosting service.

If you could actually paste those soft bounce reports into an email and send it our way perhaps we can better assist you.

Regards,
Bruce

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 09:28 AM, David Bryant wrote:

Roughly 35% of the members have yahoo.com email addresses. A very few of these (four people so far) showed up as hard bounces? after we moved to groups.io, even though yahoogroups.com's status report says they have never bounced at all. I have asked them to re-enroll with non-yahoo addresses.

Here's my question. I have seen soft bounces on seven other accounts. One of those is at mac.com. The other six are all at Yahoo! (or old Baby Bell affiliated) addresses. And these six bounce incidents all occurred at the same node on the internet: 66.175.222.12

It's not unusual for people that didn't show bouncing on YG to actually be bouncing.? The YG mechanism has been, at best, intermittent for years.

66.175.222.12 is the IP address of its outbound mail server for GIO.? It's reporting that the emails were bounced by the next email relay server.

Additional (expanded) information on bouncing at /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/dealing-with-bouncing

Duane
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OK. Thanks for the information, Bruce and Duane.

When I first took over administration of "T-VOG" at yahoogroups.com about a year ago, there were 140 "bouncing" addresses. Nobody had ever paid any attention to the bounce reports. I put a lot of effort into recovering as many of those members as possible, and removed all the rest. I'm trying to run a tight ship, now that my list is pretty clean. I guess the occasional "soft bounce" from yahoo's servers are just a fact of life.
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David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
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