I know there have been some messages here on bouncing. I just had 4 members who are bouncing.
I just wanted to know if something is going on that is making them bounce like this. It is hard to explain to this older members how to unbounce themselves.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Anita?

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Hi everyone?

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 09:06 AM, Harlan Steinle wrote:

Seems like there would be some type of communication between groups.io and the bigger carriers like Cox so we wouldn’t suffer through this, but obviously it must not be that simple.

That communication is unlikely if Mark is not made fully aware of the problem. A quick search on this group points to Cox misbehaving rather a lot since about March; I suggest that an email be sent to [email protected] ensure that he is fully aware of the scale of the problem so that he can (hopefully) take it up with Cox.

In the meantime there is perhaps a way of reducing the incidence of bounces, and that is for those affected to check their Inboxes to make sure that they are not "full". That is not the Inbox of any email client that they may be using, but the Inbox that Cox supplies. Depending on individual settings members' Cox inboxes may not be being deleted automatically (if an email client is used) or members may not be clearing out old emails from time to time. I am not going to suggest that the foregoing is a cure - all but it is definitely worth doing regardless.

Chris

I noticed yesterday that a lot of pacbell, att, bellsouth, and sbcglobal addresses were bouncing, all with some variation of the "550 5.2.1 <email address>... Addressee unknown, relay=[66.175.222.12]"? Today they seem to be starting to get through.? There are still a few cox addresses that intermittently bounce.? Hopefully it will all sort itself out.

Duane
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On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Anita L wrote:

I just wanted to know if something is going on that is making them bounce like this. It is hard to explain to this older members how to unbounce themselves.

To clear bouncing status with groups.io, subscribers can click on a link in either a bounce probe, or in the banner that shows up when they log on. Be advised that this does nothing to resolve the underlying problem.

Bouncing can have many origins, including a full mailbox, mail servers that occasionally act up, or providers that throttle back on message delivery. There is a great deal of information on this in the system help at /static/help#bouncing....but in my experience sharing it with your subscribers will only confuse them further.

As for what's actually going on with your subscribers at the moment, open their member record[s], click the Email Delivery History button, and tell us what you find. If they are all from cox.net, that seems to be a persistent problem with that provider right now.

Regards,
Bruce
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I hope this replies to the group. It was confusing h ow to do that.

I wanted to just say I had to unsub them and then sub them again. It seemed it was att and a server called hughes.

You are right if you are bouncing then you are not getting the letter and the link on how to unbounce.

Anita?

I'll chime in here - we've got issues going on with bouncing other than the old/usual "spam" thing. Within the last month or so I've been contacted by members of groups I run that they can't keep their previously-fine account from bouncing. They reset it and within a day it's bouncing again.

I tracked it down I believe to the Barracuda security that mail servers run - I actually had one of my account start bouncing (I use that account to be a regular "member" when I'm testing things) - It doesn't matter if I white list the email address or not. This had not been happening before - I've been using this account for months.

I put a support request into Mark; he asked me if I could send him any error codes. I tried but I can't really pull any. All I get is the Groups.io message that my account is bouncing, click here to unbounce. I do - and it's back again in 24 hours.

Mark tried but he's not familiar with Barracuda and unless we can come up with something ore concrete for him to go on, he's stuck. His suggestion was to contact my provider - I'm still waiting on them.

It's obvious that it's due to some recent change - but what, who knows.

Ginny

My group also has been having quite a few issues with bouncing members lately and all are using providers that have been mentioned above.? Some automatically restart after Groups.io is able to get a message through but others continue to bounce.? One of them was able to Unbounce herself when I manually sent her a bounce probe and asked her to click on the link.? I haven't tried the others yet but was wondering, if the email provider is bouncing messages from Groups.io, is there a possibility that they may not see my manual bounce probe?? If so, is there a way that we can see the bounce probe ourselves with the link to Unbounce then send it from our own email address so that is isn't originating from Groups.io?? So far, all I have seen the button to send a bounce probe but can't see what is in it.
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Received from Shal Farley at 11/10/2018 12:39 AM UTC:

But Mark should be able to see that info, so I'm not sure why he asked you to send it to him.

The most effective solution to Gio mass bouncing problems is direct contact with the ISPs doing the bouncing by someone responsible at Gio. It's a pain in the neck, but Mark really needs to educate the major players about what Gio is. If "too much email" were really the problem, they would be blocking Yahoo. The problem is really "too much email from someone we don't know and are too lazy to research." They need to be educated. For those ISPs still reading the mandatory "Postmaster" role account, a carefully written explanatory email with contact info should do the trick. Wouldn't hurt to copy "abuse" at the same time.

As I understand it Barracuda sells security "appliances" - devices that sit between your computer and the internet to protect your system. But it is possible they also have a larger-scale product that your email service may be using for spam and malware filtering.

Barracuda is a bit reckless with what they block. I can see using a Barracuda appliance in front of a corporate network, but in front of an ISP's mail server with thousands of customers who have widely varying interests and who will be receiving mail from MANY more places than any corporate network does, it's just asking for trouble.

A lot of smaller email services use third-party RBL (Realtime Black List) services as part of the decision on whether to accept or reject ("bounce") incoming messages.

Yes... but... RoadRunner, hardly a "small email service" uses the Spamhaus RBL... or at least used to before Comcast bought them and called the new conglomeration Spectrum. They probably downloaded a copy of the list(s) periodically and queried them on their own network for faster response.

If Groups.io's outbound email server(s) gets onto one of those lists then that can produce widespread rejections.

True, but I've been checking every time I see bounce complaints and Groups.io isn't in any of the significant RBL lists. Anyone who wants to check for themselves can do so here...


The IP address of Groups.io's outgoing email server is 66.175.222.12.

You'll find Groups.io listed at dnswl.org. No problem since dnswl.org is a WHITELIST, not a blacklist.

Y!Groups had this problem from time to time as well. It can be torture for Mark to try and get an RBL to de-list (or better, whitelist) Groups.io, but to even start he needs someone's email service to tell him which RBL is being used.

Yes, but doing his own query (see above) is very (as in very very) likely to turn up which RBL is being used... if the bounce is due to an RBL listing. RBLs not on the list of RBLs checked above are not serious players in the RBL game.

The thing is that the responsible RBLs keep their reputation as being responsible by not listing something without hard evidence of true misbehavior - sending spam, hosting (and not removing) spammers, malware sources, etc. "Too many messages" alone doesn't even begin to count toward being listed in a responsible RBL. The bounces we're seeing are almost certainly due to internal black lists created at Cox, SBCGlobal (etc) because some rate detection software set off an alarm. Some clown added a listing to a locally maintained black list because his pager went off and then he didn't follow up by looking at the actual content and by visiting the Groups.io site to see the true nature of the service. This is the guy Mark needs to educate.

Jim H

Received from Jules via Groups.Io at 11/9/2018 08:37 AM UTC:

My notifications are all going into my junk folder. So frustrating.
Any suggestions anyone ?

Do whatever is required to tell your junk mail filter that these messages AREN'T spam. Don't just delete them from the junk folder. Do that several times and they should stop going to the junk folder.

Jim H

Jim,

The most effective solution to Gio mass bouncing problems is direct
contact with the ISPs doing the bouncing by someone responsible at
Gio.

It isn't as if Mark doesn't already know any of what you've said.

I don't recall any mention in this instance, but in prior incidents Mark has mentioned his contact, or attempt at contact, with various email services. Not that all of them are particularly receptive to such contact.

Shal


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Received from Shal Farley at 11/10/2018 03:11 AM UTC:

Jim,

The most effective solution to Gio mass bouncing problems is direct contact with the ISPs doing the bouncing by someone responsible at Gio.

It isn't as if Mark doesn't already know any of what you've said.

I don't recall any mention in this instance, but in prior incidents Mark has mentioned his contact, or attempt at contact, with various email services. Not that all of them are particularly receptive to such contact.

Yes, there are a few rogue ISPs who don't care, but the major providers of Internet access to the masses don't fall into that category. If the right people are reached the blocks should get lifted.

Jim H