On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:53 am, Shal Farley wrote:

The controversial situations come about when an email service decides to send such a report based on 1) their own decision to deliver the message to the member's Spam folder and 2) the subsequent failure of the member to mark the message as "Not Spam".

To me that implies that there is a finite time lag between 1 and 2 occurring; is that actually the case? If it is then it's a fair bet that the lag differs between different service providers. And if it is really the case what (typically) is the lag?

I think I have been working on the assumption that the SP's feedback notification was more or less immediate following the spam label being applied. If it isn't then another variable has entered the equation.

Chris

Chris,

I use Outlook and I would expect that putting the sender's address in
/that/ Contacts section would achieve precisely nothing.

Those of us who use email clients have our own layer of interpretation to deal with in all such instructions. A filter in your client would also likely be ineffective.

I say "likely" because IMAP does (I think) provide the possibility that a filter rule in the client can move messages between server folders, including the server's Spam folder.

Shal


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Chris,

To me that implies that there is a finite time lag between 1 and 2
occurring; is that actually the case?

The observation was for a message allowed to linger in an AOL member's Spam folder until it was automatically deleted by the system. If I recall correctly that was 30 days.

It would also be the case if the member chose to empty the Spam folder or to delete that specific message while still in the Spam folder.

If it is then it's a fair bet that the lag differs between different
service providers.

Quite likely.

And if it is really the case what (typically) is the lag?

I don't know what's typical, Gmail automatically deletes from Spam messages older than 30 days.

Shal


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On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:23 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

The observation was for a message allowed to linger in an AOL member's Spam folder until it was automatically deleted by the system. If I recall correctly that was 30 days.

It would also be the case if the member chose to empty the Spam folder or to delete that specific message while still in the Spam folder.

Ahhh... So the "Notifications..." should more correctly read A message that had been marked as spam was deleled..

I don't think I'll suggest a further change to the notification! I must, however, remember to remove my glasses before repeatedly bashing my head on the desk / keyboard in frustration at the "secret rules" applied by email providers.

Chris

Shal,

When an IO group Email is put into one's spam folder is only one message sent back to IO or does the offending Email cause repeated messages to be sent as long as the Email stays in the spam folder?

Paul

Chris,

Ahhh... So the "Notifications..." should more correctly read /A
message that had been marked as spam was deleled..

But only if I'm correct about that.

I described the situation as a "time bomb" in a post on beta. I hope that Mark would have corrected me on that point had I got it wrong, but possibly that comment got lost in the larger issue and was left to stand without comment.


Shal


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Paul,

When an IO group Email is put into one's spam folder is only one
message sent back to IO or does the offending Email cause repeated
messages to be sent as long as the Email stays in the spam folder?

I'm not on the inside of this issue - I've never seen an FBL report - but my current belief is that being delivered to the Spam folder does not itself trigger an FBL report, it is when the message is deleted from that folder (having not been previously marked as "not Spam") that the report is generated.

On the other hand, if the message was delivered to the member's Inbox, and the member him/herself marked it as Spam, that would cause the report immediately (and probably not again later).

So only once. I think.

Shal


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On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 01:26 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

But only if I'm correct about that.

I described the situation as a "time bomb" in a post on beta.

You probably are, and yes you did, in that order.

I may "beef up" the Mechanism section of the draft wiki to emphasise that preventative action by members is the best, even the only, way of keeping on top of the situation, and that they cannot rely on Owners and Moderators to do it for them.

But it won't be tonight.

Chris

If a member is automatically removed from a group (because of the reported spam issue), does Groups.IO notify the owner of the group - or does the member just silently disappear?
We have some?technologically illiterate?members.? I would follow up with each "removed" member to give training if I know their email addresses.

Thanks,?
Mary Ellen

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 06:56 pm, Mary Ellen Tucker wrote:

If a member is automatically removed from a group (because of the reported spam issue), does Groups.IO notify the owner of the group - or does the member just silently disappear?

The Group Owner / Moderators receive a Notification from Groups.io that the member has been unsubscribed. This whole thread started because of the way in which the two messages were worded; I should know because I started it! Both Notifications can be seen in the draft wiki at /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam but please note that the a further change to the members' notification has been requested.

We have some?technologically illiterate?members.? I would follow up with each "removed" member to give training if I know their email addresses.

Given the residual uncertainties about the way the system operates that might be challenging; bear in mind the additional potential for confusion arising from different combinations of Service Providers' mail UIs and Email Client UIs.

Rereading some of? Shal's comments in earlier emails I intend to do a further edit to the Mechanism section later.

Chris

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 08:45 am, Paul Ohio USA wrote:

The second is a list of past members, including why they are no longer members.

Oh... where is it? I can find "banned" members but no sign of past members.

Chris

Thanks for the info.? We are planning to move to Groups.IO soon.

Mary Ellen

开云体育

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 08:45 am, Paul Ohio USA wrote:

The second is a list of past members, including why they are no longer members.

This is only available on premium groups.

There are a couple of features that were introduced, then moved to premium groups.? Mark has said several times that he would never remove a feature once introduced, so some early groups are grandfathered in to features that are no longer included in a free group.? How many other services would offer that? ;>)

Duane
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Following up with a "removed" member might be a reasonable course of action on small lists.

Due to some erratic behavior by Yahoo Mail, *some* incoming mails are automatically but inappropriately dumped into users' SPAM folders, thus marking the messages as SPAM even when they are not, even when the user has not so marked them, and doesn't even know about this.

I got booted from a IO Group for marking messages as SPAM, though I'd never done so and it came as news to me.?

I don't think it's a bug with Yahoo Mail, it seems to be a feature.? If a user deletes an email message without reading it, Yahoo Mail concludes that it was SPAM and so marks some or all additional incoming messages from that source as SPAM.? Even if the source is Yahoo Groups.? At least with my account - and I am betting that's the case with many other Yahoo Mail accounts as well.?

-simon

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:20 am, Simon Bao wrote:

I don't think it's a bug with Yahoo Mail, it seems to be a feature.

Er... have you read this thread from the beginning? I know it's getting a bit long and might well get longer, but the topic has been exhaustively discussed with the aim of finding the best "way ahead". FWIW that seems to be a wiki, written as comprehensively as can be managed.

Chris

Mary Ellen,

If a member is automatically removed from a group (because of the
reported spam issue), does Groups.IO notify the owner of the group ...

As Chris said, a notice is sent to the group admins (owners and moderators).

I think that any owner or moderator may elect not to receive such notices by unchecking the "Email when a member joins/leaves this group" box, in the Notifications section of his/her Subscription page. That may be appropriate for admins who have limited authority or responsibility in the group.

Also, an entry is made in the group's Activity log. These can be searched for under the "Removed because of spam report" Action.

I would follow up with each "removed" member to give training if I
know their email addresses.

Several of us (GMF members) been working at making the "Removed for Marking Messages as spam" page in GMF's wiki (linked under Advice to Group Members) as useful as practical (clear, but comprehensive). You may link to it or crib from it if you think that will help your members.

Please feel free to ask, comment, suggest or criticize (constructively of course) if you see ways that page can be improved, especially from the member's point of view.
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam

Shal


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