Re: Copying someone's homepage
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 12:09 PM, Leeni wrote:
I guess you are right. It just isn't copying it is super copying. It is?using?my homepage word for word.??
They did add one line?that I don't have in mine and that has to do with mandatory sharing. ?
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No one states on a homepage that it is original work.
All they copied?were my words, not the banner.
But aren't homepages when you write what you write passing it along as if it was yours?
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I think the poster owns what they post. I don't want to get into a legal battle with them.
I would just like them to use their own mind?and create their own homepage.
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Leeni Check out copyright facts: I¡¯m not an attorney but my reading of it is that your ¡°work¡± is copyrighted, given the facts as you state them. You haven¡¯t registered it, nor put a copyright notice on it (you might consider doing that, I regularly do that on reports I write. ie, (C) or ? But you don¡¯t need to do either, original work is still protected. Since Mark has agreed to address copyright violations, I would ask him to do so and remove the other content (obviously he¡¯d first request the group owner to comply.) Good luck - let us know!
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
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The saying as I have always heard is:? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
?
Gloria
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-------Original Message-------
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Date: 7/12/2019 7:34:45 PM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Copying someone's homepage
? I think Leeni is just replying to individual messages - but by the time she does, there are several, to which she replies individually, but in quick succession - so you get Post - Post - Post - Reply - Reply - Reply. Fortunately she does seem to quote what she is replying to - on the web interface you have to click Show to see this. ? On other sub-topics, the saying (as I know it) is actually "Imitation is the best form of flattery"? - but this is copying, not imitation, which is just ripping off and breaching copyright. While I am happy to be corrected by someone with more legal knowledge, my understanding is that from a copyright point of view we individually 'own' what we post (as works that we create); but (reading Groups.io ToS) we grant them a license to store and and display our posts (as part of the service they provide); and there is an implicit 'fair use' allowance (for all services like this, because of the way they work, even if not explicitly spelt out) for us to quote each others posts as topics develop - but going beyond that, there are limits... Jeremy? ? On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 06:19 PM, Leeni wrote:
Then that might be a bug in groups IO.
All I do is reply to the? email message without changing anything else.? |
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
I think Leeni is just replying to individual messages - but by the time she does, there are several, to which she replies individually, but in quick succession - so you get Post - Post - Post - Reply - Reply - Reply. Fortunately she does seem to quote what she is replying to - on the web interface you have to click Show to see this. ?
On other sub-topics, the saying (as I know it) is actually "Imitation is the best form of flattery"? - but this is copying, not imitation, which is just ripping off and breaching copyright.
While I am happy to be corrected by someone with more legal knowledge, my understanding is that from a copyright point of view we individually 'own' what we post (as works that we create); but (reading Groups.io ToS) we grant them a license to store and and display our posts (as part of the service they provide); and there is an implicit 'fair use' allowance (for all services like this, because of the way they work, even if not explicitly spelt out) for us to quote each others posts as topics develop - but going beyond that, there are limits...
Jeremy? ?
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On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 06:19 PM, Leeni wrote:
Then that might be a bug in groups IO.
All I do is reply to the? email message without changing anything else.?
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
I apologize if someone has already responded to this.? Not only is Yahoo Email effected, any provider that marks an groups.io email as spam, if the user does not route that spam back to their inbox will they be removed from Groups.io.? The only solution I know
of at present is to move the email marked as spam to the users inbox.
Best Regards,
Doug Swearingen
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?I helped several list owners move from YG.? Now a year later one list owner keeps getting kicked off his own list for marking an email as 'spam'
Fortunately I stayed on as co-list owner to be able to help with unforeseen problems.
But this seems unnecessary.? Why should a list owner (or moderator) be AUTOMATICALLY removed from their own list?
? I can see a cautionary e-mail asking them to repsond or be removed in a week.? But not instant and automatic for a list owner.
?The two cases I have dealt with the owners were using Yahoo mail.? Maybe it would be better to force list owners to use something
other than Yahoo mail if that is the problem.? When I moved from Yahoo Groups, I did not use the AOL e-mail address I had used as YG list owner,
but used a new e-mail address from my personal domain,? I seem to have personally avoided a problem with e-mails from Yahoo mail addresses.
Is there a better workaround? Should we tell list members that if they use a Yahoo mail account they should expect to be suddenly unsubscribed?
Should list owners use a non-Yahoo mail account?
--
ken clark
www.shastasprings.com
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
Hello, I only find this problem with gmail because I move messages out of my spam folder daily and it doesn't matter how many times I mark it as not spam or add it to the safe senders list the next time I get an email from someone wanting to join a group it goes to the gmail junk folder and if I get a message there is a new subscriber to a group it also goes to the gmail junk folder and no matter what I try to do to stop this behavior nothing works so I find that I have to check the gmail junk folder several times a day. I am using outlook 365 so if anyone has any ideas how to stop this from happening please let me know.
This is how I found out that if you delete emails from the junk folder will get you bumped off all of your lists so like I said this is a well-known thing.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael Pavan Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 2:03 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [GMF] List owners removed for 'spam' I have found that if you delete list messages that go in to the spam folder and you delete them from the spam folder you will be bumped off all the groups.io lists so I move all of the messages back in to an inbox before deleting them and so far I haven¡¯t gotten bumped off all my lists since I started doing that. Correct. Deleting messages in a SPAM or Junk folder confirms that you believe they are SPAM - while you may think you are merely emptying that folder, you may actually be signaling your Email Provider to tell Groups.io that you believe Groups.io is a SPAM source. Groups.io messages should always be marked "Not SPAM" or "Not Junk" and moved to your Inbox, so that when you delete them you are confirming that they are legitimate messages and belong in your Inbox. If a Groups.io message is inappropriate or contains what you believe is SPAM, it should be reported to the group Owner(s) to deal with. A group Owner can put that group member on Moderation and contact them with an explanation and/or instructions about how and/or what to post properly. Another possibility is that a message could be spoofed to appear to be a Groups.io message, but that should not cause Groups.io to automatically unsubscribe any member.
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Re: What does the lock group command do?
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 02:35 PM, Suzzanne Wharton wrote:
Does the lock group prevent nembers from receiving and sending messages?
Does it also prevent the members from accessing the group website??
Suzzanne -- It locks the group/subgroup, making it read-only. Subscribers can still access the site and read the archive, download files, etc.; but cannot send new posts, upload files, delete them, etc. This is a Premium/Enterprise-only feature.? See also? /g/GroupManagersForum/message/9748Regards, Bruce -- The system Help is your friend.?? /static/help
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What does the lock group command do?
I am the group owner I assume I will be able to Unlock the group.
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Does the lock group prevent nembers from receiving and sending messages?
Does it also prevent the members from accessing the group website??
?
Thank you
Suzz
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
I have found that if you delete list messages that go in to the spam folder and you delete them from the spam folder you will be bumped off all the groups.io lists so I move all of the messages back in to an inbox before deleting them and so far I haven¡¯t gotten bumped off all my lists since I started doing that. Correct. Deleting messages in a SPAM or Junk folder confirms that you believe they are SPAM - while you may think you are merely emptying that folder, you may actually be signaling your Email Provider to tell Groups.io that you believe Groups.io is a SPAM source. Groups.io messages should always be marked "Not SPAM" or "Not Junk" and moved to your Inbox, so that when you delete them you are confirming that they are legitimate messages and belong in your Inbox. If a Groups.io message is inappropriate or contains what you believe is SPAM, it should be reported to the group Owner(s) to deal with. A group Owner can put that group member on Moderation and contact them with an explanation and/or instructions about how and/or what to post properly. Another possibility is that a message could be spoofed to appear to be a Groups.io message, but that should not cause Groups.io to automatically unsubscribe any member.
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
On Jul 12, 2019, at 11:59 AM, SP4149 <ken@...> wrote: But this seems unnecessary. Why should a list owner (or moderator) be AUTOMATICALLY removed from their own list?
I can see a cautionary e-mail asking them to repsond or be removed in a week. But not instant and automatic for a list owner. I would counter question why a list owner would mark a message spam instead of muting the topic, muting the poster, or using good moderator practices of keeping spam off the list? Sharon ---- Sharon Villines [email protected]"Neighbors Talking to Neighbors¡± Takoma Park DC and MD
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
Then that might be a bug in groups IO.
All I do is reply to the? email message without changing anything else.?
?
?
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-------Original Message-------
?
Date: 7/12/2019 11:02:37 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Copying someone's homepage
? On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 04:40 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
I'm confused. So am I, if only because I cannot work out who or what some posts are replying to. Chris
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
Hello, I have found that if you delete list messages that go in to the spam folder and you delete them from the spam folder you will be bumped off all the groups.io lists so I move all of the messages back in to an inbox before deleting them and so far I haven¡¯t gotten bumped off all my lists since I started doing that. I was the owner of 3 lists at the time. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of SP4149
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GMF] List owners removed for 'spam' ? ?I helped several list owners move from YG.? Now a year later one list owner keeps getting kicked off his own list for marking an email as 'spam'
Fortunately I stayed on as co-list owner to be able to help with unforeseen problems.
But this seems unnecessary.? Why should a list owner (or moderator) be AUTOMATICALLY removed from their own list?
? I can see a cautionary e-mail asking them to repsond or be removed in a week.? But not instant and automatic for a list owner.
?The two cases I have dealt with the owners were using Yahoo mail.? Maybe it would be better to force list owners to use something
other than Yahoo mail if that is the problem.? When I moved from Yahoo Groups, I did not use the AOL e-mail address I had used as YG list owner,
but used a new e-mail address from my personal domain,? I seem to have personally avoided a problem with e-mails from Yahoo mail addresses.
Is there a better workaround? Should we tell list members that if they use a Yahoo mail account they should expect to be suddenly unsubscribed?
Should list owners use a non-Yahoo mail account?
--
ken clark
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 05:02 PM, SP4149 wrote:
Should list owners use a non-Yahoo mail account?
Not necessarily, but they ought at the very least to read this from the GMF wiki: Removed for Marking Messages as spam.
Chris
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Re: List owners removed for 'spam'
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 11:02 AM, SP4149 wrote:
Fortunately I stayed on as co-list owner to be able to help with unforeseen problems.
That may be contributing to the problem.? There's not supposed to be any way that the last (or only) owner of a group can be removed.? I haven't needed to verify this, but it's a possibility.? Maybe you could change your membership to Moderator with full privileges to see if it helps. The need to remove those reporting spam is to help maintain the integrity of Groups.io among email providers.? It's not big enough, as are Google and Yahoo, to ignore such things.? Unfortunately, many people don't realize that their ESP can mark things as spam, leading to this situation.? /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spamDuane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
I guess you are right. It just isn't copying it is super copying. It is?using?my homepage word for word.??
They did add one line?that I don't have in mine and that has to do with mandatory sharing. ?
?
No one states on a homepage that it is original work.
All they copied?were my words, not the banner.
But aren't homepages when you write what you write passing it along as if it was yours?
?
I think the poster owns what they post. I don't want to get into a legal battle with them.
I would just like them to use their own mind?and create their own homepage.
?
Leeni
?
?
?
?
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Show quoted text
-------Original Message-------
?
Date: 7/12/2019 10:40:05 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Copying someone's homepage
? Im confused. It¡¯s flattery to copy. But it¡¯s not mere copying. ? Exactly the same isn¡¯t copying? ?It¡¯s not ¡°mere¡± copying - what is it, Super Copying? ?Would that be Super flattery? Is S/He stating that it¡¯s original work? ?If not, then it¡¯s not plagiarism. You don¡¯t have to give credit to another, just can¡¯t pass it off as YOURS for it to not be plagiarism.? Who owns what we post? ?I¡¯m sure that¡¯s need asked and answered b4.?
?
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 08:38 PM, Leeni wrote:
I don't have my homepage copyrighted
Maybe it's just me, but I'd expect anyone with a "sharing" type group to be well versed in copyright law.? Not knowing could lead to hassles at minimum, large fines or royalty payments at maximum.? Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable defense in most places. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 04:40 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
I'm confused.
So am I, if only because I cannot work out who or what some posts are replying to. Chris
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List owners removed for 'spam'
?I helped several list owners move from YG.? Now a year later one list owner keeps getting kicked off his own list for marking an email as 'spam' Fortunately I stayed on as co-list owner to be able to help with unforeseen problems. But this seems unnecessary.? Why should a list owner (or moderator) be AUTOMATICALLY removed from their own list?? I can see a cautionary e-mail asking them to repsond or be removed in a week.? But not instant and automatic for a list owner. ?The two cases I have dealt with the owners were using Yahoo mail.? Maybe it would be better to force list owners to use something other than Yahoo mail if that is the problem.? When I moved from Yahoo Groups, I did not use the AOL e-mail address I had used as YG list owner, but used a new e-mail address from my personal domain,? I seem to have personally avoided a problem with e-mails from Yahoo mail addresses. Is there a better workaround? Should we tell list members that if they use a Yahoo mail account they should expect to be suddenly unsubscribed? Should list owners use a non-Yahoo mail account? -- ken clark
www.shastasprings.com
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On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 04:06 PM, Geoff Arnold wrote:
Let me respectfully disagree with the concept of an "Uber-Owner".
From your description of what you are doing elsewhere then your objection might well be valid, but that does not invalidate it as a possible solution to potential difficulties in Groups.io. Here there is always Mark to fall back on, although making a regular habit of it might not go down well. Paul M ( Epicatt2) neatly outlined a workable solution; with the best will in the world I think your conflating how things work on Groups.io and how they work on your development obfuscates rather than illuminates. In the meantime, I suggest the following to anyone concerned about this vulnerability:
- Do not promote to Owner anyone who you do not trust implicitly.
- If promoting a subscriber to Moderator do not enable Set Moderator Privileges unless there are good and unavoidable reasons for doing so. ?
Chris
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
Im confused. It¡¯s flattery to copy. But it¡¯s not mere copying. ?
Exactly the same isn¡¯t copying? ?It¡¯s not ¡°mere¡± copying - what is it, Super Copying? ?Would that be Super flattery?
Is S/He stating that it¡¯s original work? ?If not, then it¡¯s not plagiarism. You don¡¯t have to give credit to another, just can¡¯t pass it off as YOURS for it to not be plagiarism.?
Who owns what we post? ?I¡¯m sure that¡¯s need asked and answered b4.?
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Re: Copying someone's homepage
Thanks for that information.
You are right. It isn't worth going to court over this.
So far the group in question only has 1 member.?
I will write them another email to change their homepage immediately. Then I will contact Mark.
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I am going to read the Terms of Service now.
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I did put the following on my group's homepage. It may or may not have been a good idea. I don't know.
?There is? another PSP group whose Homepage is exactly like this one, please know it isn't one of my groups. It is someone who wants to be me. Copying is the BEST form of Flattery.?
?
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Thanks so much! Leeni?
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-------Original Message-------
?
Date: 7/12/2019 9:21:30 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Copying someone's homepage
?
While I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that copyright protection is automatic (in most countries), you don't have to do anything special to get it. While it's unlikely to be worth going to court, a suitably strongly worded e-mail to the copier to change theirs immediately would be a first step, followed by contacting support (Mark) - from my reading, it is against the Groups.io Terms of Service by '... upload[ing] any content that ... (i) infringes any intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party; ...' (User conduct section) - you should probably read the ToS yourself, and come to your own interpretation, rather than relying on mine. Jeremy
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KWKloeber
Douglas Swearingen
Bruce
Michael Pavan
Duane
SP4149