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On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 01:48 AM, Mark (via Frances) wrote:

Therefore, I have turned back on group transfer requests and have extended the deadline?until Thursday, December 5th at 9AM Pacific Time. Keep your fingers crossed that Yahoo's servers stay up that long.

To be totally clear:

This means you have to GIVE THE GO-AHEAD for your transfer (complete Step 5) by this deadline. Simply initiating a transfer, or paying for Premium Yearly, or completing any of those other preliminary steps will not ensure you a spot in the transfer queue.

Do not procrastinate...get started on this NOW, so the delays involved in inviting the transfer agent and making it a Moderator do not come into play.

Those who have paid but are not able to execute an Easy Group Transfer will issued a refund upon request. Just email Mark at [email protected]?and he will refund your money and delete your group.

Bruce

Here's my advice for a quick solution.

The facts are that Number 4 in the Activity created the problem; it doesn't matter how it happened but it did. Also, her email client is clearly using "n.k.mara.3250@" as the return address.

So, the simple solution is to remove "N.K.Mara3250@" from the membership. Then, either Direct Add (if this is a premium group) OR have the subscriber resend their request to [email protected]?to properly join.

Also, technically, the other "N.K.Mara3250@"?is their problem,not yours. Even so, if that separate account exists and if they want it gone, they will have to first be sure they are?logoed out and then login with that exact address to remove that account.

Good luck,
Jim

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 03:34 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

On her page in the Members list check the Email Delivery History tab to be sure this is true.

I wanted to dig deeper into GIO never guessing an opportunity would present in this way!?

I checked the Email Delivery History tab on the members page (not understanding this as an available resource until now. ?Yes, she did receive the Monthly Notice and no, nothing has bounced. I compared what I saw to my Email Delivery History and they are exactly the same. I compared it to others and noted slight differences which I think denoted how they elect to receive the group emails (digest, single, etc)?

Here's a screenshot of hers:


Next I discovered the Activity History under her Membership which proved interesting. Up until I have been looking only at the Activity tab sitting below the Admin section.?
Her Membership Activity History is quite telling. No where is there any indication of the the dotted lower case email (n.k.mara.3250@...,)

There are only three entires on "Mara's" Activity History. All of them contain only the non dotted email address (N.K.Mara3250@...)


So to me this it means she has one GIO account. It is under the non dotted email address.
It would appear the system didn't pick up a discrepancy.
It would appear that she can resolve things by adding the dotted email address as an alias.?

If you can confirm this, I will inform her she needs to set up an alias. I will need to search the wiki to refresh myself on that and send her the link.?

I know how busy Support is so unless it's of benefit to them, I see no need to elevate it. Should I perhaps make a Bug Report so Mark is aware of this behavior?

Greatly appreciate the time you have invested in assisting me,?
--
Sandi Dickenson
Moderator of ASG Volunteers Group

Hi, Shal,

You can change your Display Name to something like "Moderation team".

Yes. But even in this case I could be identified I believe.

If you don't want that appearing on your regular postings, use a spare
email address for the purpose: promote it to mod and set its Display
Name to a generic team name.

We did this of course a while ago. Each moderator has a special owner address now. But in spite of this it does not make much sense to have an owners address option in groups.io which doesn?t work correctly, especially since it looks very convenient when there is a setting that gives you the choice between the personal and the owner?s address. It is even somewhat misleading.

Granted this is a bit inconvenient due to
the need to have a separate login for this alternate address.

Yes, it is, since you have to log out and then log back in again, then log out and in again to go about the usual business:-)

> I posed this question a while ago (#13906) and hope very much it will
> be considered on Mark?s to-do-list.
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/13906

Recall that there are no Groups.io employees reading GMF. Use beta, the
"suggestion box", to bring the suggested improvement to their attention.

Yes, I am aware of that. I just didn?t want to bother Mark with additonal trivia as long as he is occupied with transfers.
Victoria

Sandi,

Here is the email the owner received on Nov 3. This shows the email
address characters inside the body of the email were different from
those generated by the webmail captured email address in the Activity
Log on Nov 3. Any ideas on what could have triggered the character
change?

Possibly the notification captured the spelling she entered when accessing the web site to request membership, and the activity log captured the email address that actually responded to the confirmation request that Groups.io sent to her.

The mechanism is supposed to notice a discrepancy like this and automatically make the typed spelling the account (and subscribed) address, and set the sending spelling into that account's Email Alias. That's supposed to prevent subsequent inability to post due to the different spelling.

Do you think I need to elevate this to Support?

Maybe.

I can't discern whether the mechanism failed or whether she did something unusual. Worse, I can't convince myself that we can decide whether she has now one account or two (one under each spelling).

The only hard part about telling her to start over at this point is that not only must you or she remove her subscription(s) from your group, but she would need to delete (both of) her Groups.io account(s) in order to get a truly fresh start.

Shal


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Sandi,

So here's my problem. The user did everything correctly. What types of
things could have transpired allowing the Owner to end up approving an
email address that never requested to join?

Your activity 4 is impossible as stated: the owner could not have changed the spelling of mara's address while approving it.

So it would seem that there must have been another application under the non-dot spelling which your owner actually approved.

Or, perhaps mara accessed her account to change her email address after applying and before the owner approved it.

And what is the correction?

If the user is receiving group messages then there's no need to correct her subscribed email address. On her page in the Members list check the Email Delivery History tab to be sure this is true.

Instead, assuming her subscription is still using the non-dotted spelling, mara can go into her account and add the dotted spelling as an Email Alias. This will allow posts under either the dotted or non-dotted spelling to post as "her".

If the Email Delivery History tab shows that this spelling of her address is "bouncing" group messages then go ahead and delete this membership. Send a fresh invitation to the other spelling.

And once she joins under the correct email, do I tell her to contact
support to merge them? Or should I remove that email and then we all
ignore it?

Ignoring for the moment her membership(s) in your group, there's a question as to whether she has one Groups.io account or two at this point. If she changed her email address from one spelling to the other then she would still have only the one account. In which case no merge would be required.

If she managed somehow to have two accounts at Groups.io, even though they are two spellings of the same email inbox, then yes she'd want to either merge one into the other or simply delete the account she doesn't wish to use.

Shal

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Shal (and others),?

Here is the email the owner received on Nov 3. This shows the email address characters inside the body of the email were different from those generated by the webmail captured email address in the Activity Log on Nov 3. Any ideas on what could have triggered the character change? Do you think I need to elevate this to Support?

Victoria,

I want to use the owner address for postings to the group that come
from our team and not from a single moderator ... but at the moment
this is not possible.

You can change your Display Name to something like "Moderation team".

If you don't want that appearing on your regular postings, use a spare email address for the purpose: promote it to mod and set its Display Name to a generic team name. Granted this is a bit inconvenient due to the need to have a separate login for this alternate address.

I posed this question a while ago (#13906) and hope very much it will
be considered on Mark?s to-do-list.

/g/GroupManagersForum/message/13906

Recall that there are no Groups.io employees reading GMF. Use beta, the "suggestion box", to bring the suggested improvement to their attention.


Shal



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See?/g/GroupManagersForum/message/25171

Frances
--
FAQ on Moving from Yahoo Groups
GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

I was so glad you mentioned getting different results from your two downloads. After my request on October 25 was returned on October 27 with no data, I was despondent about their download service, but do go on to figure out a way to download the extremely bloated view of messages from the yahoo groups web site... and Files. And Photos. And Attachments.

I didn't find your message until November 21, and immediately sent of another request... which was not returned until November 28, but it contained the mbox format archives that you refer to, and the files from Files area.

Unfortunately, Attachments are not included in the downloads, but since I had already captured them, it is a matter of correlating them to make a decent archive.

Again, thank for the inspiration to try again.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 01:06 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

I believe you are.

Thanks Shal. Between your message and Gerald's, I put together an email message of the detailed activity.?

I am a mod and have control of doing everything except approving members. (I have that capability but I don't use it. The Owner is the approval authority but as a safeguard I could if she were to unable to.)

So here's my problem. The user did everything correctly. What types of things could have transpired allowing the Owner to end up approving an email address that never requested to join? And what is the correction? ?

We aren't a Premium group so we don't have direct add capabilities.?

Before posting to GMF, I emailed the member/non member and the owner and suggested they start again. Should the owner invite her under the "n.k.mara.3250@..."?email??
Or should the user request to join from that email like she did before? I'm leary of doing the latter if I can't figure out how it might have gone wrong the first time.?

And once she joins under the correct email, do I tell her to contact support to merge them? Or should I remove that email and then we all ignore it??

Thanks,?
?
--
Sandi Dickenson
Moderator of ASG Volunteers Group

Is there something wrong with the activity entries??

Hi Gerald,

Not that I can tell.?

I own a Gmail address with a dot and I have run into something similar on other platforms with that address. Gmail will receive it addressed either way but the sites I registered with read it as 2 different emails. In other words the system sees the dot as a character.?

Here is the Activity chronological order.?
1.?n.k.mara.3250@...??applied for membership via web (Nov 3)

2.?n.k.mara.3250@... sent message "Re: Your pending membership in the ASGVolunterrs@..." to owners via email.?(Nov 3)

3.?n.k.mara.3250@...??sent message "Re: [ASGVolunteers] Please identify yourself" to owners via email. ?(Nov 10)

4. (Owner) approved N.K.Mara3250@...'s?membership via web?(Nov 17)
[Note that this is where the owner (not me, I am a mod and do not approve requests to join) approved the email address without any dot and having caps. I am unsure what would have happend to change the displayed email showing?caps and the dot when all other communication up to that time shows the email displayed as only lower case and the extra dot.]

5. Sandi Dickenson?changed?N.K.Mara3250@...'s??display name from '' to 'N Mara' via web. (Nov 17)

6. (Owner)?sent message #33,?Are your members in new positions??via web (Dec 1)
[Note that is a Monthly Notice that is sent to all group members on the 1st of the month]

7.?non-member,?n.k.mara.3250@...,?attempted to send message, 'Are your members in new positions?', via email. (20:27 on Dec 1st)

8.?n.k.mara.3250@... sent message, 'not able to reply to group message' to owners via email. (20:30 on Dec 1st).?
[Note that this reflects the email she sent to owner/mod and in that email she informed us that her earlier reply (at 20:27) to our group's Monthly Notice had been rejected by GIO.]

Hopefully a GMF owner or mod can help me get this figured out.
--?

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 07:53 PM, Ann Wild wrote:

I have an owner who needs to remain publicly silent, but helps in moderating messages.? To help relieve some of my workload, is it possible for her to send a message to a member that does not identify her directly, but only uses the owner address as the sender??

I agree that it doesn?t make much sense to have an owner address that by default shows the alias of the sender. I want to use the owner address for postings to the group that come from our team and not from a single moderator like Christmas wishes or general information but at the moment this is not possible. I posed this question a while ago (#13906 ) and hope very much it will be considered on Mark?s to-do-list.
Victoria

From Mark:
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FAQ on Moving from Yahoo Groups
GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

Sandi,

I am guessing that the extra dot between Mara and 3250 is recognized
differently, not the fact that NK and M are lower case or capitals.

Actually, both should be a factor.

I just want to make sure I am on the right track about the extra dot
character in her email address.

I believe you are.

In the email standards the interpretation of the username part of an address is entirely up to the service where that username resides.

Some services (like Gmail) allow dots to be included freely in user names, others treat those as different users; so Groups.io dares not treat those as identical.

Same goes for upper versus lower case letters.

Shal


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See also the last paragraph of this post from Mark.?

It seems it is the message archive that is giving errors. ?Mark says he could do a move without the messages ?but read what he had to say ?

Frances
--
FAQ on Moving from Yahoo Groups
GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

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FAQ on Moving from Yahoo Groups
GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

Yes, it's all there in groups.io. ?Like I said it's a small group, only about 60 members, 13 of which were rejected because of bounces. ?All 256 messages, about 10 files and all of 2 photos were transferred.

Can someone confirm that GIO sees these two email addresses as 2 distinct addresses?
n.k.mara.3250@...
N.K.Mara3250@...

I am guessing that the extra dot between Mara and 3250 is recognized differently, not the fact that NK and M are lower case or capitals.?
Neither of those addresses are actual emails that I know of. They only mirror by example a situation I encountered today.

I?have a member that joined by requesting an invitation on Nov 3rd from email address "N.K.Mara3250@...?(no dot).

Her activity tonight states:
"non-member,?n.k.mara.3250@...,?attempted to send message..." (Created 20:27)
and
"n.k.mara.3250@... sent message, 'not able to reply to group message' to owners via email."?(Created 20:30)

I just want to make sure I am on the right track about the extra dot character in her email address.?
Thanks,?