Need to be able to customize Invite message.

#7073

Mike, Shal, Don,

I am quite familiar with this thread since I started it, I believe. As far as I am concerned all the reasons that have been brought up do not convince me of the advantages of the boiler plate. It is not only that this  boiler plate gives me the impression that as owner of my group I am not able to create my own personal invitation; it also is a huge handicap for non-English speaking people as many have pointed out. The option of creating lines and setting my own statement in between or on top of them is no solution for me. This even confuses people more, I?ve been told.

The chance of this type of confusing - and in non-English speaking groups - multi-language text mail to land in spam filters is much bigger than the one of a simple invitation sent in my own personal words. Generally I know the person I send an invitation to anyway. All these considerations have brought me to completely do without sending this sort of invitation. Instead I have switched over to sending personal messages if I want to invite someone. 

Maybe a solution to this issue could be to shorten the boiler plate text down to a single sentence. This would be consistent with the spam idea, it woldn?t confuse non-English speaking people (as long as there aren?t other language versions available) and owners could still put their own invitation below that basic sentence.

Just an idea....
Victoria 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: Automatic Deletion of Members If Message Marked As Spam #poll

#7072

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 06:56 pm, Mary Ellen Tucker wrote:

If a member is automatically removed from a group (because of the reported spam issue), does Groups.IO notify the owner of the group - or does the member just silently disappear?

The Group Owner / Moderators receive a Notification from Groups.io that the member has been unsubscribed. This whole thread started because of the way in which the two messages were worded; I should know because I started it! Both Notifications can be seen in the draft wiki at /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam but please note that the a further change to the members' notification has been requested.

We have some?technologically illiterate?members.? I would follow up with each "removed" member to give training if I know their email addresses.

Given the residual uncertainties about the way the system operates that might be challenging; bear in mind the additional potential for confusion arising from different combinations of Service Providers' mail UIs and Email Client UIs.

Rereading some of? Shal's comments in earlier emails I intend to do a further edit to the Mechanism section later.

Chris

Re: Topics vs Messages

Gerald Boutin

#7071

A Topic is a group of messages that consisting of the initial message and all ongoing replies. Hence, the name of the Topic is the subject of the first message.

The number shown in Topics view is a count of the messages in the topic.

--
Gerald

Topics vs Messages

#7070

Why do the numbers for lists show number of topics instead of the number of messages?

What counts as a topic? Is it the same as messages?

Why have “topics”?

Sharon
-----
Sharon Villines, Washington, DC

"Focus means saying no to the 100 good ideas out there. Innovation is saying no to 1,000 things." Steve Jobs

Re: search operators

Gerald Boutin

#7069

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 05:51 pm, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Since this is such a poorly-documented feature, I've added it to the GMF wiki.?

See?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Using-the-Search-Engine

Additions or corrections appreciated.

Bruce

Excellent job, Bruce.

I've also noticed that when you are given results to a search, a Tools button appears with some additional options.

?
--
Gerald

Re: Need to be able to customize Invite message.

#7068

开云体育

The invitation you sent had my first name on it. Did you put that there or does the invite process add that name?

?

Don

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2018 4:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] Need to be able to customize Invite message.

?

Don,

What I would like to be able to do is send an invite message to myself so I can what it really looks like…For editing purposes.

In the Invitation to be Sent box the Invite page gives you a live copy of the message, including your inserted section. The only thing missing is the filled in invitee name replacing [Name] in the sample.

If you're looking for a static example, look in your inbox for an invitation to shalstest.

Shal

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Re: Automatic Deletion of Members If Message Marked As Spam #poll

#7067

If a member is automatically removed from a group (because of the reported spam issue), does Groups.IO notify the owner of the group - or does the member just silently disappear?
We have some?technologically illiterate?members.? I would follow up with each "removed" member to give training if I know their email addresses.

Thanks,?
Mary Ellen

Re: Cross posting to other lists

#7066

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 06:07:54PM -0700, Bruce Bowman wrote:

There is an Email Integration designed to facilitate cross-posting INTO
groups.io. If you can get the same thing set up in the other group (perhaps a
dummy account with posting privileges but receiving "no email"), then your main
problem will be getting people to STOP CC-ing both groups.I do want them to be able to control when there is cross posting.  It
certainly isn't the case that every message applies to both, in fact
most messages only apply to one or the other.

I admit I haven't thought this through carefully and the last thing you want to
do is create a dupe loop. But I hope you get the idea. I know of no way to
avoid creating a separate messageID, however. If that's the gist of your
problem or there's other stuff in the message headers messing you up you're way
beyond my ability to help.It seems that if I uncheck "I always want copies of my own messages",
it doesn't generate new message IDs.  At least I think that is what is
happening.  I've asked someone to send me headers from one of my
messages on our list so that I can check if that is the case, or if
groups.io just avoided sending the message to me at all.

David

Re: Cross posting to other lists

#7065

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:50:43PM -0700, Shal Farley wrote:

  * The recipients of the groups.io list receive a newly generated
message (with its own message-id).That's optional.

In your Account preferences page there's a checkbox that is checked by
default:
|_|  I always want copies of my own messages

The effect of that checkbox is to cause the Message-Id to be replaced on
messages you post. For some email services (Gmail notably among them)
this allows you to see the message as returned from the group. Otherwise
(if the Message-ID were left intact) Gmail would see a message with that
same ID already in your account (the Sent folder) and would not display
the "duplicate" message as received.This only affects messages that I send, right?  Is there a way to set
this for everyone.  I'll have to play with this a bit, though.

In addition, anyone on both lists/groups will get a separate copy of
each message, and it is unclear which one they should reply to.Hmm...

Groups.io will insert a Reply-To field in the outbound header. The
content of that header is set by one of your group's Settings. But none
of the available choices will cause it to include the other group/list
and if the member uses plain Reply that would likely exclude the other
list, even if it were not removed from the To or CC. So I guess the
member would need to use Reply-All to get the reply to go to both lists
(and direct to the original poster).It seems to just not insert a Reply-To for our list, which is pretty
important for cross posting to work (otherwise our group effectively
steals threads from every other list).

Thanks,
David

Re: Cross posting to other lists

#7064

There is an Email Integration designed to facilitate cross-posting INTO groups.io. If you can get the same thing set up in the other group (perhaps a dummy account with posting privileges but receiving "no email"), then your main problem will be getting people to STOP CC-ing both groups.

I admit I haven't thought this through carefully and the last thing you want to do is create a dupe loop. But I hope you get the idea. I know of no way to avoid creating a separate messageID, however. If that's the gist of your problem or there's other stuff in the message headers messing you up you're way beyond my ability to help.

Bruce

Re: Cross posting to other lists

#7063

Hi David,

  * The recipients of the groups.io list receive a newly generated
message (with its own message-id).That's optional.

In your Account preferences page there's a checkbox that is checked by default:
|_|  I always want copies of my own messages

The effect of that checkbox is to cause the Message-Id to be replaced on messages you post. For some email services (Gmail notably among them) this allows you to see the message as returned from the group. Otherwise (if the Message-ID were left intact) Gmail would see a message with that same ID already in your account (the Sent folder) and would not display the "duplicate" message as received.

  * Sometimes, the otherlist will be pruned from the headers, and
    sometimes not (I haven't figured out the pattern here).Possibly the distinction is whether the To or CC field was used? Also, there was a relevant change in late Jan or early Feb so that the CC field is no longer stripped. See the fifth item here:


  * Replies on 'otherlist' tend to go to to the groups.io
    list, which accepts it, at least if the group is
    open to posting be non-members.Accepted yes, but non-subscriber posts are always placed in moderation.

In addition, anyone on both lists/groups will get a separate copy of
each message, and it is unclear which one they should reply to.Hmm...

Groups.io will insert a Reply-To field in the outbound header. The content of that header is set by one of your group's Settings. But none of the available choices will cause it to include the other group/list and if the member uses plain Reply that would likely exclude the other list, even if it were not removed from the To or CC. So I guess the member would need to use Reply-All to get the reply to go to both lists (and direct to the original poster).

Shal


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Subgroup visibility...not-visible AND public messages?

#7062

I'm really unclear about the Visibility option for subgroups.? What does this option mean: "Group not listed in parent group, publicly viewable message."? I have come to think of this as the "messages from God" option.? Is this for one-way email subgroups?

Re: search operators

#7061

Since this is such a poorly-documented feature, I've added it to the GMF wiki.?

See?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Using-the-Search-Engine

Additions or corrections appreciated.

Bruce

Cross posting to other lists

#7060

Hi, our group (for the Zephyr Project) has just started using . A lot of the developers on this list have come from the Linux kernel development community, and cross-posting messages is fairly common there.

I'm trying to figure out what the best way to handle this with would be. Right now, what seems to happen is:

A user sends an email to our address, as well as to otherlist@....
Their original email is delivered to the recipients of otherlist.
The recipients of the list receive a newly generated message (with its own message-id).
Sometimes, the otherlist will be pruned from the headers, and sometimes not (I haven't figured out the pattern here).
Replies on 'otherlist' tend to go to to the list, which accepts it, at least if the group is open to posting be non-members.
Replies to the messages make it back to this list, but because the otherlist was pruned from the To header, the message gets dropped from that list.

In addition, anyone on both lists/groups will get a separate copy of each message, and it is unclear which one they should reply to.

I guess my first question is: How is this expected to work. The devs clearly have thought of this, as there is some sophistication going on to what things to cull from the headers. I think this would mostly work fine if the otherlist was never removed from the header, the only problem there being the duplicate messages for everyone subscribed to both.

In addition to CCing lists, it is common in these community to "CC" specific individuals. With most mailing software it is possible to mark messages that are sent directly to me. It also makes it possible to include someone in a thread that isn't subscribed to the group. With the header stripping, sometimes these people will get dropped out.

Thoughts?

David Brown

Re: search operators

Gerald Boutin

#7059

Frances caught me. I thought I checked for upper case AND, but apparently not very well.?After I looked a bit further, both of Frances' blind AND bouncing search results were actually correct. It wasn't obvious from the first couple lines of the search result, but looking at the full post did show that both search terms appeared.

In any case, add me to the suitably humbled list also.

--
Gerald

Re: search operators

#7058

Hmmm...OR seems to work too, if it's in all caps.?

NOT also works...I was able to get 10 hits with one search and filter out two of them by adding a NOT.

If you mix OR and AND, it kinda works, but the operator precedence doesn't seem to match standard programming language precedence. So I haven't been able to make sense of that (yet).

So Lena is right. I stand wholly [and humbly] corrected.

Bruce

Re: Need to be able to customize Invite message.

#7057

开云体育

Don,

What I would like to be able to do is send an invite message to myself so I can what it really looks like…For editing purposes.

In the Invitation to be Sent box the Invite page gives you a live copy of the message, including your inserted section. The only thing missing is the filled in invitee name replacing [Name] in the sample.

If you're looking for a static example, look in your inbox for an invitation to shalstest.

Shal

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Re: Need to be able to customize Invite message.

#7056

Mike,

In my opinion, the pre-written letter is simply too involved. I would
like the ability to edit it.That ability does not exist. The most you can do is add your own section to it. I use horizontal lines to make it clearer:
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/5779

Some people, especially those who moderate groups that operate in another language, have asked for the ability to write the complete invite message. However I think though Groups.io has some solid reasons to make sure the boilerplate remains.

See also:

Shal

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Re: search operators

#7055

Well, an all caps AND does work. Perhaps not perfectly.?

Try blind AND bouncing.?
Two results.?
If it a lower case and, just one of the two. The only explanation I can think of is proximity.?

Frances

Re: Need to be able to customize Invite message.

#7054

开云体育

What I would like to be able to do is send an invite message to myself so I can what it really looks like…For editing purposes.

?

Don

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mike@...
Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2018 3:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GMF] Need to be able to customize Invite message.

?

? ??I've only been here two or three months-?so maybe this matter has been tell with.? ?I could not find anything in doing a search.
In my opinion, the?pre-written?letter is simply too involved.? ??I would like the ability to edit it.? ??