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On 04/05/2018 04:24 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me if somewhere on the web is a good list of
methods for "whitelisting" email list messages, broken down by service.

A more exhausting trick would be to try and create such a reference for ourselves in GMF's wiki.

I like that idea.

An advantage is that it could focus on the services that exhibit a problem.

Breaking this up into bite sized portions.

* ISPs that Groups.IO has an FBL relationship with;
* Other ISPs that send "message # xxx is spam" notices;

For FBL relationships, start with the list that Mark periodically
provides, and expand to all domain names covered by those ISPs. BTL, for
example, has some email addresses under Yahoo.com "administration",
which have FBL notices, and some email addresses that are administered
by a different party, that do not have FBL notices.

As far as other ISPs are concerned, I'm wondering if a copy of the
notice that is sent to the unsubscribed due to marking as spam, could be
sent to either the owner of the list, or whoever is designated to
maintain the list of ISPs that send "message # xxx is spam" notices.

I do not know how to implement that, and remain in compliance with
European Privacy law.

?Thinking aloud: A message containing the domain name of the sending
organization, is sent to the ISP wiki maintainer. It would be the
responsibility of the ISP wiki maintainer, to determine if the domain
name belongs in the FBL relationship list, or the Other ISP list.
Furthermore, the ISP wiki maintainer would also be responsible for
reaching out to the abuse contacts at those domains, to find out how to
whitelist email sent there.
On second thoughts, rather than send an email, a log file lists the
domain name, date and time that the message was received by Groups.IO.
The downside is that the domain name of the sending organization may not
match the domain name of the email address that was unsubscribed.
On a daily, weekly, monthly, or quarterly basis, a chart be generated,
that shows how many notices were received from each domain, during the
current time period, and three/four/five time periods. The idea being to
see whether the number of notices stays constant, or goes up, or goes
down. Ideally, they go down.?
??

A disadvantage is that it would have to be maintained, probably by people who use the respectiveservices.

I'm probably being overly optimistic, but I'd expect:
* For the first three months, the maintainer would be extremely busy,
chasing down information from 500 or so domain names;
* Then the maintainer would be looking at one or two domain names per week;

jonathon

All my groups are eMail based and and every poster's eMail address is displayed.

Arno

Arno

Thank you for your response.

My group members use a variety of ways to communicate with the Group - some via webmail, some via their email client, some online.

So where are the email addresses displayed if a member doesn't post?

Margaret P

In addition to Shal's comments, you will also find yourself logged out if you attempt to access the site using a different device/browser.

Bruce

Shal, Arno,

well, I don?t allow and cannot use attachments for our purposes. We use anamnesis questionnaires into which members write medical information like blood counts and other test results. These forms are then commented and sent back to the member via group mail and then they are uploaded into the files. We?ve been doing this since our group?s existance in 2006. So attachments are just as unservicable for our purposes as are pdfs. For that reason we don?t even allow attachments.

Nontheless I found out that by using normal.dotm I can get these forms to stay as originally formatted, even if I copy the text into an email.

But thanks for your thoughts.
Victoria
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I concur with Arno's suggestion to send the form as an attached file.

However I'd recommend using PDF (Portable Document Format) over Word or any other application-specific file format. Modern versions of Office (and LibreOffice) can export documents in PDF format, and Win10 includes a decent printer driver that produces PDF files from any application that can print.

Make sure the cover message explains what's in the attachment and why the member should fill it in. A bit of specific context there can go a long way to avoid having the message treated as spam (spammers often send attachments with very terse messages). That is, "Here, fill this in." would not be a very compelling to the member, nor very "ham-y" to their email service.

Shal

You may want to check the permissions on the referenced database. I update databases (and create them) all the time using my I-phone and Safari without any problems.

Jean

#OrlandoStrong

Bruce,

It might be nice to have a "sister group" to GMF where we can try out
some of these features and address these questions once and for all (I
suspect Mark already has one set up). But even if we did, the answer
would no doubt be complicated and unlikely to truly satisfy to your
group members.

I have shalstest. You can join and use that for "kick the tires" testing. Or just create one of your own.


Shal


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Sharon,

What is the default if I don’t check any of these?

Messages pass through Groups.io as they were received: Plain or HTML.

In the group's Messages HTML messages are displayed pretty much as received, but some HTML code is stripped to protect from abuse. Plain text messages are converted to HTML for display, including linkifying URLs (but not email addresses) and converting standard plaintext quote notation to HTML blockquotes.

Force HTML Emails

This one seems clear — change everything to HTML but what if the
message is written in plain text?

Groups.io does a fairly straightforward conversion from plain text to HTML. This includes linkifying URLs (but not email addresses) spelled out in the plain text.

Normalize HTML Emails

What does this do to links?

Nothing. It also leaves embedded images as they were.

Complaints that links are being stretched out to http addresses

rather > than the name.

That's sounds like Plain Text Only.

Shal


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Victoria,

These pre-formatted documents comletely change their looks as soon as
they appear in the message field of the group.

I concur with Arno's suggestion to send the form as an attached file.

However I'd recommend using PDF (Portable Document Format) over Word or any other application-specific file format. Modern versions of Office (and LibreOffice) can export documents in PDF format, and Win10 includes a decent printer driver that produces PDF files from any application that can print.

Make sure the cover message explains what's in the attachment and why the member should fill it in. A bit of specific context there can go a long way to avoid having the message treated as spam (spammers often send attachments with very terse messages). That is, "Here, fill this in." would not be a very compelling to the member, nor very "ham-y" to their email service.

Shal


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Tony,

Having membership Deleted for a spam claim is counter to the interests
of Groups.io, to the Group Owner and Member.

Easy for you to say, but Groups.io's founder has a different idea of what's in the best interests of Groups.io, group owners, and members:

If a FeedBackLoop, FBL message comes in could this be challenged and
managed by Groups.io at a higher level?

Apparently not, see above link.

To be managed by the ESP to the satisfaction of Groups.io, Group Owner
and Group Member.

The problem is that Groups.io is as yet a pretty tiny tail to go wagging a big dog like Verizon (owner of Yahoo Mail and AOL, apparently the two most problematic services).

The FBL is generated and sent by the member's ESP. Email Service
Provider, who must take responsibility for their actions. Possibily by
making provision for a White List.

I don't know about AOL, but Yahoo Mail has a filter function which I think may be used to direct group messages to the user's Inbox, bypassing the spam filter.

The trouble is, many group owners despair of ever teaching their group members how to do things like that; and face the related problem that the mechanism is likely different with each service.

It wouldn't surprise me if somewhere on the web is a good list of methods for "whitelisting" email list messages, broken down by service. The trick would be to find one that isn't out of date or part of a "shady" web site.

A more exhausting trick would be to try and create such a reference for ourselves in GMF's wiki. An advantage is that it could focus on the services that exhibit a problem. A disadvantage is that it would have to be maintained, probably by people who use the respective services.

Shal


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Did you get an email about it? Any message at all? But you say no unsubscription notice.
Hard to tell without more info.
Are you logged in with a password or did you just use "send me a link"?
I would add a password - top right corner in the menu headed by your name.
Perhaps knowing what device, operating system, browser might help.

Frances

Paul,

How often and under what circumstances might one find him- or herself
unexpectedly logged out from Groups.io groups?

I think the lifetime of the log-in cookie is 30 days.
/static/help#i-have-forgotten-my-password-i-dont-have-a-password

If you delete your browser cookies, or your security software does, that will effectively log you out as well.

It has happened to me twice now and I have not knowingly deleted any
Groups.io messages as spam prior to being logged out.

Completely unrelated.

And Gmail doesn't do the Feedback Loop thing, so you wouldn't have been unsubscribed even if you had.

Shal


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Please see /static/help#questions-and-bug-reports? Include as much information as you can, including any version numbers to see if it can be recreated and fixed.? GMF@ isn't officially monitored by Mark or anyone at groups.io.

Duane
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As moderator of a 750-member group on Groups.io, I've found what appears to be a bug in the Groups.io database code. After a handful of reports from members of my group using Safari that they were unable to edit an existing record in the Owners List database, I tried it myself using my MacBook Pro and the Safari browser. Didn't work. I can use that combination to CREATE a record but not to EDIT an edit an existing record.

Caveat emptor: if you're using the Safari browser with any operating system you may have this problem. My recommendation is to use another browser. I've had a good experience with the Google Chrome browser but there are many others that appear to work with the Groups.io database feature.

Meanwhile, how do I report an apparent bug like this to Groups.io . . . is this post sufficient?or is there someone I should notify.

Thanks,

Milt

--
Milt Baker, owner and chief moderator
Nordhavn Owners Group - groups.io/g/nog
NOGmoderator@...

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 06:57 am, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Since he has paid his club dues, kicking him off isn't really an option unless his behavior gets a little more outrageous than it has so far.

Don't know what your clubs conditions are but I would put him on moderation and not pass on his messages until he changes.

My eMail client is set up to put messages without a Subject into the Spam Folder.
Arno

All my groups are eMail based and and every poster's eMail address is displayed.
Arno

As I started out before HTML was used for eMail I wish everyone would use plain text.

That said, I would highly recommend to send these forms as Document attachments.
Anyone can download LibreOffice for free and, unless macros are used, everything is virtually interchangeable with MicroSoft's Office versions.
Arno

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 01:19 pm, Frances wrote:

The Zendesk link needs removal or editing. It doesn't lead to anything useful.

That was my first thought as well, and then I considered the possibility that I had missed something; perhaps I hadn't.

The wikipedia link is at the bottom of the (draft) in - house wiki document anyway.

Chris

Don't you have member terms and conditions that cover his case?
If not, it might be a good time to implement some.
And, you could always refund his membership and then ditch him.
--
Bob Bellizzi

The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation

I never give out email addresses without prior approval.

For me, I look in the yahoo (now inactive) group and email the person (B) and tell them (A) would like their address is it okay to give it out? Or give them (A)s email and ask them to contact them.