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Re: Deleting pictures in bulk.
Judy,
After reading the initial post about this problem, I went and checkedSounds like your group could really use a means to identify signature images and consolidate or delete them. Something like an image search, where you can do a bulk operation on the result. That's what I had in mind for Martin's similar finding. Would you have any interest in finding and perhaps hiding or removing signature text in the messages archive along with the signature images? Mark already has a pattern matching list that operates across all groups to strip recognized advertisements from messages; that idea might be extended to member signatures. Kind of the opposite of the feature added not too long ago that allows a member to add a signature to his postings. I spent six hours yesterday deleting garbage.What consideration(s) motivated that effort? An obvious possibility is that they make the Emailed Photos album nearly useless - too hard to find the wheat amid all that chaff. Another I can imagine, with numbers that high, would be a concern with the amount of your storage needlessly consumed. It is fortunate that such images tend to be relatively small files, or the total of them might be non-negligible. The family photos I'm trying to leave, but I may end up having to turnIn what way? That is, do you plan to check the "Plain Text Only" box in the message formatting? The other method I can see would be to prohibit attachments. Or am I missing something? Shal |
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Re: Deleting pictures in bulk.
You are right. I was thinking that for our group, simply opting out of automated posting to the photos folder would eliminate the duplication problem before it started. I expect most things that will show up in our photos folder will be inadvertent. I notice that a graphic from a signature has already appeared in our photos folder during minimal testing. From that, I anticipate that tidying up the photos folder will be a daily task. Since our Y! group photos folder is mostly unused, it occurred to me that an opt out flag would be an easy improvement for us, but we can certainly live without it.
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Best, Marv -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Shal Farley Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 12:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GMF] Deleting pictures in bulk. Marv, > My suggestion is an option in the user profile like "Do not save > graphics in my posts to the group pictures folder." I saw that in beta@ and may comment on it. However I'm not sure it addresses Martin's issue, which was primarily with an multitude of copies on an image from a member's message signature. If I'm understanding correctly his group might value the pictures of book covers, title pages, and other images carried in the body of the messages. So a blanket option to effectively turn off the Emailed Photos album might be too severe a solution. Notably there's no real cost implied by having the photos from email messages be gathered into the Emailed Photos album - the storage for the photo was necessarily consumed to have the photo remain as part of the message body or attachment in the Messages archive. Putting a reference to them in the Emailed Photos album is simply an convenient way to find and organize them. Except when that album becomes cluttered by an overabundance of copies of the same signature image. > I don't think your idea is flawed, but it might introduce unneeded > complication and processing. I'll grant there's some complication in what I proposed, especially in the fully automatic version. Whether that complication is unneeded or not only those who might use it can tell us. I think it would have value in any group that encounters that kind of duplicated image posts, allowing them to be handled gracefully rather than becoming a source of friction between the group member(s) and group admins. Shal |
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Re: Deleting pictures in bulk.
Marv,
My suggestion is an option in the user profile like "Do not saveI saw that in beta@ and may comment on it. However I'm not sure it addresses Martin's issue, which was primarily with an multitude of copies on an image from a member's message signature. If I'm understanding correctly his group might value the pictures of book covers, title pages, and other images carried in the body of the messages. So a blanket option to effectively turn off the Emailed Photos album might be too severe a solution. Notably there's no real cost implied by having the photos from email messages be gathered into the Emailed Photos album - the storage for the photo was necessarily consumed to have the photo remain as part of the message body or attachment in the Messages archive. Putting a reference to them in the Emailed Photos album is simply an convenient way to find and organize them. Except when that album becomes cluttered by an overabundance of copies of the same signature image. I don't think your idea is flawed, but it might introduce unneededI'll grant there's some complication in what I proposed, especially in the fully automatic version. Whether that complication is unneeded or not only those who might use it can tell us. I think it would have value in any group that encounters that kind of duplicated image posts, allowing them to be handled gracefully rather than becoming a source of friction between the group member(s) and group admins. Shal |
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Re: Deleting pictures in bulk.
My suggestion is an option in the user profile like "Do not save graphics in my posts to the group pictures folder." For my group, I would like this to be the default, but other groups may be different. I would prefer to have members explicitly upload to the group pictures folder rather than assume that any graphic included in a post should go to the pictures folder.
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Generally, I find it better to let individuals designate what they want done rather than automate decisions and make exceptions and mitigations downstream. Most often, I find that approach reduces system processing and avoids tortured logic. I don't think your idea is flawed, but it might introduce unneeded complication and processing. Best, Marv -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Shal Farley Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GMF] Deleting pictures in bulk. Martin, > One of our list members has a signature as a graphic so every time > they post, the graphic is saved to our group pictures folder - we have > 670 copies so far! Oops. So I see two problems here. > How do I do a bulk delete of pictures? I can do single deletes, but i > won't live long enough to do this 670 times (and counting!!). That's one of them. We don't have that feature yet. The other is how to automatically detect such signature images and not store them individually, both to avoid this problem in the Emailed Photos album, and to avoid the related problem of needlessly using up your group's storage quota. There probably are relatively quick ways to determine if that such an image has already been stored, especially since we don't need (nor want) a "looks like" type of match, an exact match of the image file (and maybe the surrounding text of the signature) will do. A manual solution would be to have checkbox or button in the Emailed Photos album where you can designate an image as being repeated (as in a signature). The system would go merge all copies into a single stored copy and check future message posts for more of the same. One question about doing this would be what to do about the "Message" button that takes you back to the message the image came from. It would likely be ok if that was a link back to the first use. At the other extreme it could bring up a list of all the messages (operating like a kind of search result), but that might be over the top - imagining your case with 670 messages containing the image. Anyone spot the obvious flaw with this idea, before I post it in beta? Shal |
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Re: Deleting pictures in bulk.
Martin,
One of our list members has a signature as a graphic so every timeOops. So I see two problems here. How do I do a bulk delete of pictures? I can do single deletes, but iThat's one of them. We don't have that feature yet. The other is how to automatically detect such signature images and not store them individually, both to avoid this problem in the Emailed Photos album, and to avoid the related problem of needlessly using up your group's storage quota. There probably are relatively quick ways to determine if that such an image has already been stored, especially since we don't need (nor want) a "looks like" type of match, an exact match of the image file (and maybe the surrounding text of the signature) will do. A manual solution would be to have checkbox or button in the Emailed Photos album where you can designate an image as being repeated (as in a signature). The system would go merge all copies into a single stored copy and check future message posts for more of the same. One question about doing this would be what to do about the "Message" button that takes you back to the message the image came from. It would likely be ok if that was a link back to the first use. At the other extreme it could bring up a list of all the messages (operating like a kind of search result), but that might be over the top - imagining your case with 670 messages containing the image. Anyone spot the obvious flaw with this idea, before I post it in beta? Shal |
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Re: Is anyone charging a fee to members?
Jennifer,
Specifically, I'd like to establish a subscription fee, and offer theThanks for the reminder: I've been meaning to look into this for my PTA group. In my case the fee isn't directly associated with the Groups.io group, being on the email list is just a benefit for dues-paying members, not the purpose of paying the dues. For a few years now we've been using Square readers to process credit & debit card payments (made in person typically during school registration) in addition to accepting cash and checks. As a merchant service their rates aren't bad, but they may not be the lowest either. In any case, they have been a convenient service to use. The proceeds (charges less the processing fees) are direct-deposited to a bank checking account owned by the PTA unit. The PTA unit is registered with the state of California as a non-profit organization. I know Square also offers online store services, where we might be able to able to accept on-line payment and perhaps set up electronic membership registration. That's my goal anyway, sorry I don't have it in place and can't report on how well it works. I'm imagining I'd receive per-sale or daily sales reports from Square, and send those along to our PTA unit's Membership VP. She maintains the master membership roster in an Excel spreadsheet. Shal |
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Re: Remote SMTP Server Returned: 500 Invalid request
Simon,
I have the full reply archived, available for anyone from Groups.ioWe (fellow GMF members) don't need to see the whole message, and in particular don't need and shouldn't be shown any of your original message content (the text you meant to have posted on the group). However, as Lena said what you reported is incomplete. To figure out what happened we'd at least need the text that accompanied the 500 response. When Groups.io makes such a response it normally spells out exactly why the message was rejected. And at that I'm assuming that it was Groups.io who sent you that return. Another possibility is that a group member's email server is badly misconfigured an sent that rejection notice to you (as original sender) rather than to Groups.io to handle as a bounce. Some more of the headers sent with the response would be helpful to identify this case. If we can't figure it out from more info, then this may be a case you should send to [email protected] to make sure the message was handled properly and perhaps to improve the rejection messages. Shal |
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Re: Automatic unsubscription ?
Jonathan,
Does this mean that when I mark a message as spam on my emailMaybe. That will depend on your email service, the list service, and on how you've configured Thunderbird. Some webmail services (including big ones like gmail) have an arrangement where email list services (such as Groups.io) can sign up to be informed when a mail user marks a message from the list as spam. Groups.io is signed up with many email services because with some of them that's the best way to help ensure that other list members receive list messages. Otherwise the marking of a list message as "spam" goes into the mix with whatever other factors that email service uses to filter spam, adversely impacting other list members who use that email service. I could understand this if someone marked it as spam on the web site,Indeed, the other factor is whether your email service knows anything about what you've done in Thunderbird. If you are using POP3 to retrieve messages then I think the answer is a flat "no". But if you are using IMAP that raises to a "maybe", because Thunderbird may move messages between server folders, including from your Inbox to your (server side) Spam folder. You'd have to look and see how you have Spam handling configured in Thunderbird to know whether marking a message causes an action at your email service. Should I be warning the members of my groups that this could happenAs a general statement, yes. There have been reports that some email services will even send a report (and trigger an unsubscription) without any explicit action on the recipient's part. If the message is automatically filtered to the Spam folder, and the user doesn't remove it from there, then eventually the Spam folder gets emptied and a report is triggered. That's nuts, IMO, and I hope that's not still the case, but when Groups.io first signed up for receiving reports there were cases which could only be understood as having happened automatically. Shal |
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Re: Is anyone charging a fee to members?
David and others - Thank you for pointing out the issues ¨C and yes I have been thinking this through for a long while.? ? Vocabulary causes confusion.? Mark¡¯s decision to use the word ¡°group¡± as the name of his service does worsen the vocabulary challenges for those of us who want to use a service to facilitate communication within an organization-cum-community-cum-group comprised of PEOPLE.? A collection (group) of HUMAN BEINGS that wants to talk among themselves becomes confused with a virtual list of designated email addresses (a group) stored on a computer that then distributes emails from any one email address on that list to all of the other email addresses on that list -- through the electronic ether. ?So I will refer below to my a ¡°community-group¡± to signify it is a collection of PEOPLE, and to our virtual group on Groups.io as our e-group. ? ? How will my community-group use the Groups.io service??? Our new community-group is named Praxis Pioneers, an informal by-invitation organization with strict professional criteria for membership that I establish. The fees we will charge do not violate my Groups.io terms of service because the fees cover membership in the community of PEOPLE. ?I will add members to our e-group on Groups.io only after approving their membership in Praxis Pioneers. ?We will simply use Groups.io for email communication and will probably create and use a website on Groups.io, too.? ?In addition to using the Groups.io service¡¯s list-serv and website capabilities to communicate, we will use other vendors to market and host our webinars and conference calls, local conferences, etc.?? ? Why would people be willing to pay ME?? I am a nationally-known expert and ¡°thought leader¡± with a reputation for building collegial relationships across stakeholder groups, for being generous in sharing my knowledge and ideas, and for being an innovator. ??I have run a multi-stakeholder list serv since 2001 -- and will continue to do so.? ?Many people have told me how valuable it is to them ??¨C partly because of the new stuff I bring to their attention and the multi-stakeholder dialogue that results.? ?However, that group has not had a clear purpose other than keeping ourselves informed and enlightened ¨C and growing the number of people who think the way we do.? ? Why would people be willing to pay a FEE to belong to this new community-group?? ?I'm charging them for a membership in a community-group that has a clear purpose:? We are going to do an unusual project together.? We are going to collaborate and support one another in developing the skills and assembling the resources required to manage difficult cases of a very sort ¨C the small group of people for whom the traditional method of medical care delivery has failed.? There is currently no generally-accepted effective approach to ¡°salvaging¡± these situations.?? So, we will be developing, testing out and deploying a new and quite different treatment model, practice model, and business model ¨C each in our own settings ¨C and sharing our experiences as we do so. ???This will enable them to market themselves as having special expertise in dealing with these problematic cases, and earn more money by gaining a reputation for doing so successfully.? Professionals are quite accustomed to paying for continuing education/professional development activities-- and they are ESPECIALLY willing to do that when the skills they learn will enable them to expand their service offerings, improve the delivered effectiveness of their services, look more "expert" to potential buyers, expand their business, and earn more money. ??I expect we will need to award continuing medical education credits to them to acknowledge the time they are spending developing their expertise. ?And since we will have to pay significant sums of money to the organizations that will accredit the medical education we will be delivering, obviously we must have revenue to cover those expenses. ? Will this be a big money-maker?? ?Heck no.? But since the other faculty members and I will spend a considerable amount of our professional time on it ¨C and we earn our living by the hour ¨C we intend to get paid something rather than nothing. ? ?? How big a group are you talking about?? It¡¯s fine with me if this group stays small, but it will probably grow slowly over time.? In fact, it will never be very large, because not many physicians are interested in mastering this particular subject matter.? I¡¯ll be delighted if we ever get to 200 members ¨C if each state ends up with 4 physicians who are willing to work with this type of patient and know how to do this stuff well, that would be GREAT. ? ? How will the group be marketed / why would people want to join (and pay)???? Last year was the first year I taught a day long face-fo-face course on this particular topic.? It will be repeated every year.? Attendees paid several hundred dollars to attend.? The people who attended were disappointed that there was no way to stay connected and go deeper into the subject matter.? They expressed a real interest in having a way to keep in contact with me and other faculty, to keep growing their knowledge / expertise and to share their experiences as they attempt to implement the things they learned in the course.? The ¡°graduates¡± of that course will now get an offer to join this new group.? ?They will not be fazed by a small monthly charge for an on-going connection to a community of mutual support. ? Cordially, Jennifer Christian, MD, MPH Moderator, PraxisPioneers ¨C tiny newborn organization -- e-group has 2 members so far. Go to and click on JOIN THE ROUNDTABLE to find out more or join us! ? ? -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David P. Dillard Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GMF] Is anyone charging a fee to members? ? There are several other considerations you may want to ponder in this regard. ? First the owner of Groups.IO may not want fee based services on his free site and may create rules regarding this and require that such services pay for the premium version of Groups.IO.? Rules for services can change at any time. He also may have additional fees or requirements put into for fee based groups on his service, when such are created. ? Secondly, a lawyer should be consulted to guide you to proper legal methods for setting this up and running it in a completely legal way. ? Thirdly is there a market for this information product.? Will enough people join to allow for a profit or at least cost recovery? Will they be satisfied with the information product and retained as members? ? Do you have a business plan and marketing plan?? Nobody who is unaware of your discussion group will join it.? If one pays for your product, it will need to be private and Google cannot and does not index content on private lists. Nobody will pay who does not perceive concrete benefits from learning from the content you share. ? Do you have credentials that show you have authority as an expert in the subject areas your shared information covers?? If not, on what basis are you charging for this information.? Also can people find the same or similar information for free on the internet, or quality fee based coverage of the same from credentialed experts. If yes to either on what basis are you charging?? Are there ways you can practice your expertese in whatever field that are more sure of revenue production than running a discussion group? ? I think you have some walls here to think about and then hurdle before you can earn income from a discussion group, regardless of how valuable you think the content you share is to your clients who pay to join your list. ? ? . ? ? Sincerely, David Dillard Temple University (215) 204 - 4584 ? ? > [excess quote trimmed by moderator] |
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Re: Is anyone charging a fee to members?
I have one group that is only open to members of a club that charges dues.? All of the subscribing and other information is done totally separate from the group.? The group is for pretty much anything related to club business, no matter how remotely.? Not the same situation, but a similar use.
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Shal Farley
Marvin Waschke
Jennifer Christian
Duane