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On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 04:49 AM, Art Kocsis wrote:

This is the way all groups should be.

IMHO there is no one-size-fits-all formula; it is for individual group owners to determine what works best for them and their group(s).

?During that time we never had one single incidence of SPAM being posted.

It isn't necessarily just spam that can be a problem. Some subscribers seem unable to be able to trim their posts so moderation can be an effective way of cutting down the quantity of clutter that can accumulate by over - quoting. Others have unduly long signature blocks that are OK occasionally but tend to add to the clutter. The moderators on this group are quite effective in keeping this under control!

It is quite an unnecessary burden and causes unnecessary delays to require moderation of first time posts for groups such as ours.

Then you should perhaps count yourself as very lucky; I would argue that it is a regrettable necessity on occasions; yes it causes delays but patience is a virtue. I certainly wouldn't argue that moderation is something that group owners should avoid; group owners have to work within the world as they find it rather than the world as it should be.

Chris

PS: I don't know where on the globe you reside; I am in the UK where moderation delays on this group can be quite long because all the mods are on the other side of the Atlantic with a 6 - 8 hour time difference. One can get used to it quite easily...

Thanks, John.

I had looked at that page a few weeks ago, but shied away from it, because I dislike Chrome so much. But I'm trying to do exactly what you're describing, salvaging as much as I can, even if it's in pieces.

I hit a wall with both PG Offline and the Chrome application, so I'm in a bit of an uncomfortable holding pattern at the moment, considering the looming deadline.

With PGO I get a perpetual login error.

And with the Yahoo Messages Application I get "Failed to load extension - Manifest file is missing or unreadable - Could not load manifest". I do see a JSON file named manifest in the folder, but have no idea if's readable. I wonder if I followed the instructions about what to do with the zip file correctly. The instructions talk about creating a directory and copying the files there, and I don't think I know what that means. I figured I was just supposed to unzip it, and then point Chrome at the unzipped folder, and that's what I did.

Any insight you might have acquired while you got it to work?

In the meantime I'm going to request another batch of Yahoo data, and hope there are additional puzzle pieces. Yahoo sent out a mailing that we can request our date until Saturday night 11:59pm PACIFIC, and that they won't delete the archives until they've fulfilled the last open requests. I'm hoping that requesting more data is a way to extend the archives just a bit longer, to buy time to download the rest.

Isis

Thank you, Frances.

That was easy! If only all questions had such simple answers.... ;)

Isis

Art,

How does one insert tabs or specify a fixed point font on a Wiki page?

The wiki lacks tables or tabbed columns. You could probably use the <> Source Code editor to create a table in HTML code.

Second question is what exactly is the "Table of Contents" supposed to
do?

What it does here:
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Moving-to-Groups.io

The Wiki just discusses how to enter it but does not contain any info
on how to populate it or what auto update is supposed to do.

You populate it by using Heading 1, Heading 2, ... from the Format drop-list. Make sure your first use of such a format is after the TOC insertion, and make sure it is Heading 1. Else confusion will ensue.

Shal


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John,

Somehow, 1 or two email addresses have special characters at the
end of them (see photo).

That's the unicode replacement character - displayed when the unicode value is invalid.

When I edit the email, delete the special characters, then try to Save
- I get the warning "That email address is already registered."
...
- Is this a bug?

Probably the user has already registered their address with the correct spelling.

I'd try Direct Adding those users with the correct spelling. If you end up with subscriptions under both spellings delete the incorrect one.

Shal


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Maria,

Is there any way that we can restrict members from exporting a
database that has been set up by a moderator / owner ?

Not without blocking them from reading the database. You can do that for all databases by changing the group setting, as Gerald suggested, or you can do that by editing a specific database's properties ("View Table").

If not can this be put on a Wish List ?

The official "suggestion box" is the beta group:


Or if you run a Premium group the new tracking system:


Shal


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Richard,

Still totally confused.

Even after reading the wiki page?
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Status-Badges-in-the-Members-List

I think it goes through the various cases of when confirmation is required and when it is not.

No one has ever mentioned having to confirm.

Why would they?

I verified that their address was valid from another source that is
verifiable.

If your group is on a Premium plan you can manually confirm them. Otherwise they must confirm their address on their own.

No one has ever sent a message to me saying they do not get messages.

Members often don't communicate when they have problems. Or might not realize they should be expecting messages.

Shal


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On 2019.12.12 1535, Alex wrote:

Darn!

snips

I suppose I could just create a new identical group of the same members
at groups.io....and manually add all my old members, or have them join.
Right?

True. I did this.

if so, I guess the biggest difference, aside from having the manual work
about adding the members, is that the archives would not be transferred
over? Rightz.

Yup, right.

I used the Yahoo! offer to bundle up everything in the Y! Groups I'm subscribed to for two different Yahoo! accounts. It sure looks like all or most or enough came through. (Lists, Files, Messages)

I used PG Offline (trial) version to grab photos in blocks of 20.

I've set up a new group (here, at GIO), configured it with some assistance from the various help files, GMF discussions, and the like.

Then I used this:

Chrome Application to Download Members
Application to Download Members

With it I was able to grab a list of _all_ the members for a group I was saving and was made an owner for.

It's a lovely application and generated a multi-column file. I saved a couple of versions of it, notably in spreadsheet form (two actually, .ods and .csv)

What was handy about was I was able to simply highlight the one column with e-mail addressees and paste that into the GIO invitation form. Folks are showing up like gang busters.

A handy feature was noting the current mail delivery status of a number of Y!G members. More than I'd imagined were NoMail. The invitation went directly so wasn't affected, however it was useful to understand a rough percentage of how many might be interested in the new group.

So, you can do a lot in the next48 hours or so.

Cheers, John
--
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC

I have looked but cannot find info on this.

How does one insert tabs or specify a fixed point font on a Wiki page?
All of the eleven available fonts are proportional and trying to insert tabs
just changes fields.

In essence, I want to display a two column table and left align the second column.

Second question is what exactly is the "Table of Contents" supposed to do?
The Wiki just discusses how to enter it but does not contain any info on how
to populate it or what auto update is supposed to do.

Art


Namaste', Art

Janie,

So when it's time for the two-day moderator break coming up this
weekend, and the need to turn off member posts, we'll do the
Announcement Only setting, ...

That will reject members' messages back to them. In some email interfaces such rejections can be very confusing or misleading.

Another option would be to check the "Moderated" box. Then the messages would simply be held in the Pending list. You, and your mods, could turn off your notification and just ignore the piled up messages until Monday. At which point you can delete or approve them, at your choice.

Shal


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On 2019.12.12 2217, isis feral via Groups.Io wrote:

I played around with it some more, and it's becoming clear now that the
Yahoo data is NOT COMPLETE. I looked up some of the attachments in the
archives, and at first thought that the missing attachments in the MBOX
files were also missing from the archives, but I found some attachments
in the archives that were just as inaccessible in Thunderbird as the
ones not in the archives.

But worse, once I could see the total number of messages displayed, I
noticed that there are only about 4,000 of 11,000 messages in one of my
groups, and it looks like it's similar with the other groups. Then I
noticed that entire stretches of time were missing from the files. I
have files up to December 2017, but the next batch doesn't start until
August 2019. There are also all sorts of bizarre posts with weird dates,
just showing up at the beginning of some of the folders, so I have posts
that look like they're from 1998 or 1969, when there was no such group,
just inserted with current posts. Some of those weird posts are blank,
others are legitimate posts, some seem to be partial posts, and they
have no subject line, and have weird sender names.

Another demonstration of Yahoo's reliability....or lack thereof. Once I
got everything of mine off that system that I still can, I'm going to be
happy to walk away, and I'll never look back.

Isis

Interesting.

In the interest of completeness I've been acquiring data in any form I can from Yahoo! Groups.

The Y!G bundles, and other apps.

PGO (for Photos, I'm a group Owner so can do that, download photos.)

Also two Chrome Browser Applications (not an extensions.)

These have been used quite successfully in Vivaldi Browser (it too is Chromimum based.) The Applications wouldn't display a button as in the description/instructions so I brought them out/made visible by entering vivaldi://apps in the address bar. I then saved that on my Speed Dial page, though a Bookmark would work as well.

The one was able to grab a multi-column list of _all_ the members (no 1000 limit). Done.

Chrome Application to Download Members
Application to Download Members

The other was to download messages.

Chrome Application To Download Messages
Application To Download Messages

I took it a bit at a time, balancing a concern for the deadline and the block by Yahoo! if one tries to gobble too much at a go. Blocks of 200 to 500 to start. Being on the west coast of NA I noticed that when most folks east of me settled down for the evening I could get more done, quicker. I was able to download 1000 msgs at a time. Looking in to the saved text files of these they appeared fairly complete. I've not had time or further inclination yet to check them.

One reason I chose this belt and braces (suspenders if you prefer) approach was this application downloads the Yahoo! Group message number with the messages.

One should be able to build a number of different things from these files. I have noticed that messages that are deleted still seem to present a number, however may not appear as messages to us. This might be part of some of the differences between the total number or messages passed and what one can find. Not sure.

Cheers, John

Isis,

I was able to get the MBOX files to display in Thunderbird, but none
of the attachments are functional.

The mbox files have only placeholders where the attachments ought to be. The attached files, if delivered to you, are in the photos_and_attachments folder. This reflects the fact that Yahoo Groups stored the attachments separately (sharing the 100 GB storage pool with Photos), if it stored them at all - which was a group option.

I also heard a rumor that the shutdown of the archives might be
postponed until the end ... of January, but I see no official notice
to that effect.

See the re-worded help page:


The removal of user access to content is still scheduled for "after December 14th". At which point manual or PG Offline downloads will no longer be possible.

The only thing that has been extended is the deadline for making a getmydata request.

Shal


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John,

I was hoping for an elegant means of allowing message recipients to
reply to whom they wanted, fairly clearly (in a revealing way --
seeing who the addies are), and definitely easily. This whether from
the web interface, ...

In the Groups.io web interface the default Reply To is set by the group. This is reflected in the button (under the message composition box) saying Reply to Group, Reply to Sender, Reply to Mods, or Reply to Group & Sender. By design, the web interface does not reveal the email address of the original poster when replying to Sender or Group & Sender.

If the group doesn't check the "Remove Other Reply Options" box then the user can toggle between reply destinations using the silver buttons to the right of the Reply and Discard buttons.

webmail or an [MUA] (mail client.)

Groups.io attempts to influence the behavior of the user's email interface (MUA) by inserting a Reply-To header field matching the intent of the group's setting. However, not all email interfaces respect that header field, and among those that do they have a variety of responses. Alas.

I've seen seemingly unpredictable responses, with up to three choices,
and _no_ choices! ... Thunderbird ...

When testing Reply to List functionality I followed advice to use the configuration editor to change the default behavior:
mail.override_list_reply_to;false

In my opinion Thunderbird's default behavior is broken, but the developers obstinately assert that the world is wrong, not them.

As Duane mentioned, Groups.io briefly included the List-Reply header field, but it caused too much trouble with too many users' interfaces.

Shal


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I played around with it some more, and it's becoming clear now that the Yahoo data is NOT COMPLETE. I looked up some of the attachments in the archives, and at first thought that the missing attachments in the MBOX files were also missing from the archives, but I found some attachments in the archives that were just as inaccessible in Thunderbird as the ones not in the archives.

But worse, once I could see the total number of messages displayed, I noticed that there are only about 4,000 of 11,000 messages in one of my groups, and it looks like it's similar with the other groups. Then I noticed that entire stretches of time were missing from the files. I have files up to December 2017, but the next batch doesn't start until August 2019. There are also all sorts of bizarre posts with weird dates, just showing up at the beginning of some of the folders, so I have posts that look like they're from 1998 or 1969, when there was no such group, just inserted with current posts. Some of those weird posts are blank, others are legitimate posts, some seem to be partial posts, and they have no subject line, and have weird sender names.

Another demonstration of Yahoo's reliability....or lack thereof. Once I got everything of mine off that system that I still can, I'm going to be happy to walk away, and I'll never look back.

Isis

Hello David, I've had this happen before. I missed typed my email address once whenever I was changing it. And I had to have another owner send me the correct address that I typed in, so that I could login and change my email once again so I can start receiving mail. Once I knew what the email address was, that I had typed in, I was able to login and change it no problem. So you must be typing something wrong. I accidentally put a dash in the middle of my email address and I don't even have a dash in any of my email addresses.

I'm just getting back to this again now, trying to figure out what's actually there in those massive files from Yahoo. I was able to get the MBOX files to display in Thunderbird, but none of the attachments are functional. They don't have any extensions. I've tried to open some that I know are PDF, but my reader wouldn't open them. I even downloaded one and changed the extension to PDF, but that didn't work either. The Yahoo data came with a folder of attachments, but they don't seem to be connected to the posts, and the attachments I tried are not included. All the attachments Thunderbird shows are called 'Part 1.2'. Is there something I'm missing? Has anyone figured out how to open message attachments in the Yahoo data files?

Yahoo sent out something a few days ago, warning of the imminent shutdown of the archives, in which they said if I request my data, they will delay the shutdown of those archives until they finish sending me the data. So it seems like requesting data again, even if we have it already might give us a little more time to maneuver. I also heard a rumor that the shutdown of the archives might be postponed until the end of the month or even the end of January, but I see no official notice to that effect. Has anyone else heard anything about that? I sure could use another couple of weeks to download all my data myself, but getting PG Offline at the last minute, if I don't know if there'll be anything left to download come Saturday, doesn't make much sense to me.

Isis

Isis, go to your message and use the little down arrow below the message and choose all messages from this member.
And based on that, I can see your ID -?posterid:761656
I retrieved 22 messages.

Frances



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Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)

GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

You need to ask your owner to give you the permission to edit archives.
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Promotion%2C-Status-or-Permissions-Change-to-Moderator-or-Owner
#2 in the list of permissions.

Frances

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On 12-02-2019 11:13, Frances wrote:

Spam Control -
You must choose from among these four options. At least one of these options must be set as a spam-control measure.

No, that is not strictly true. It is true for groups but not for subgroups.

Subgroups do not require any of the four boxes to be checked and allows all members to post without moderation.

This is the way all groups should be. Our groups are open, public and have over 3000 members. We had existed on Yahoo for over twenty years before transferring to GIO. During that time we never had one single incidence of SPAM being posted. It is quite an unnecessary burden and causes unnecessary delays to require moderation of first time posts for groups such as ours.

Art