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Last week, one of the changes listed was the default order of the email photos?to most?recent first. I initially read that as all photos. It would be nice to have the option of setting the order for the group. Our group would work well if all photo albums were default to most recent but I can see where other groups would want the by name default.?

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 05:44 pm, Sharon Villines wrote:

is that person overwhelmed? Or only works M-F

As far as I know, Mark is still the only employee of Groups.io and we like to give him weekends off. ;>) He sometimes does things like this over the weekend though. If nothing happens by Tuesday, you might contact him via [email protected] to check on it. I know that sometimes he gets deep into a problem/fix and doesn't notice other things.

Duane

I took the first steps to transfer a group on Friday - set up the new groups.io group and set up a membership on the old group for [email protected].

That address has yet to confirm the membership.

I’m stuck until that happens. Should I try again or is that person overwhelmed? Or only works M-F

Sharon

Hi all,

This week's change log:
/g/beta/message/12844

Mostly small fixes this week, but all are welcome. And many will improve matters considerably for those affected.

Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.


o Now tracking confirmation email delivery attempts and bounces.

I think this completes something I've been advocating for a long time: that every email sent from Groups.io have delivery tracking. In Y!Groups, and initially in Groups.io, only group postings had delivery tracking. By adding tracking to group- and system-generated notices it should become easier for mods to help members when things go wrong.

As a bonus for Mark, it should reduce the number of instances where a member or moderator has to call on support to figure out what happened. And it will provide better evidence in those cases where support is still needed.


o Resize photos in digests to a max of 400x400.

This had been handled correctly in groups that have the "Max Photo Size In Email" option set to anything other than "No Resizing". Now it is done for the No Resizing case as well.

For affected groups this should make the digest much more legible, particularly on mobile devices, when photos or other images are included in messages. It should also dramatically reduce the byte size of the digests so that they will download more quickly and take less room.


o Don't force a digest at 10pm if a digest has been delivered in the last 6 hours.

There is ongoing discussion in beta@ about the size of digests and how frequently they are delivered.

The key problem being that some email interfaces, including Gmail, will hide the bottom portion of a message, or in some cases truncate it, when it gets "too long". This can make most of the Digest unusable for many subscribers. The previous week's reduction of digests to 12 messages max (had been 25) is a response to that problem. It has the downside of approximately doubling the number of digests sent in very busy groups, so people are still looking for solutions.

A likely outcome will be the creation of a fifth subscription type: Summary (distinct from Digest, Special notices, No Email or Individual). Summary would produce a once-daily list of the messages posted that day, but would not (unlike a Digest) contain the full message content. It would likely include just the subject lines, each being a link to the group's Messages pages.

Stay tuned for details.


o Cleanup +owner messages to hopefully improve their deliverability.

Groups.io does some processing of the header fields in received messages before posting them to the group. Now this processing is also done for messages sent to the group's +owner address.

Hopefully this will reduce the likelihood that a moderator's email service will reject forwarded +owner messages or divert them to the Spam folder.


o The Download Archives function now downloads a zip (compressed) file.

This should make the download go much faster. If you're just keeping the archive around for your records then it will take a lot less room. But of course you'll have to expand it to actually use it.


o Added Timezone selector to add event page.

This will help groups whose members live in multiple time zones. Previously when a user created an event, the event was listed using the timezone of that user - which may not have been helpful if the event was happening somewhere else.

A geographically diverse group might want to use UTC rather than any one person's local time, particularly for online events (like chat sessions) which have no tie to a physical location.


o For messages with more than one rcpt tos, process all of them instead of stopping at the first error.

I'm a little puzzled by the wording of this one, but I think it has to refer to an inbound message being sent to multiple groups. It was listed as a CHANGE, but it sounds more like a BUGFIX.


Anyone have comments about these, or others:

o CHANGE: In the Month calendar view, show all times as hh:mmt (if on the hour, it used to skip the :00 part)
o SYSADMIN: Separate web serving and email delivery onto different machines.
o CHANGE: In posttosub messages, include the group subject tag in the email subject.
o BUGFIX: In files, if a folder had a # in the name, it screwed up paging through the files list.


Please call out any you find significant.


Shal

Sharon,

Do you subscribe to subgroups the same way as groups?

Pretty much. For the mod there are a few more options but for the member it is about the same.

Group: TakomaDC
Subgroup: GroupPurchases

[email protected]

Close, but not quite. Once your group has had a subgroup the format of your group address (both email and web) changes and the primary group name goes to the right of the @ sign:

[email protected]

Your primary group gains an alternate set of addresses:

[email protected] or the old one still works:
[email protected]

But you get a new control in your primary group's settings that lets you change "Main" to something more appropriate. In my PTA group I changed it to "members" - because the primary group has all of the PTA membership in it, and the subgroups are things like teachers@, board@, etc.

Shal

Indeed yes you do. The only thing that's different is that there are 2+signs with in the subscribed group email address when subscribing to a subgroup via email.

Do you subscribe to subgroups the same way as groups?

Group: TakomaDC
Subgroup: GroupPurchases

[email protected]

Thanks,
Sharon

Thank you!

Reminder:
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When:
Wednesday, 1 February 2017

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Latest revision: 2016-09-05

View Event.

hahaha! yeah, you BETTER duck and run! :-)

Shal . . .


On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 12:23:26 -0800, "Shal Farley" <shals2nd@...>
wrote:

Until his organization grows a bit it is entirely dependent on him for
all operations. That of course is not sustainable in the long run. I
would expect that anyone purchasing Enterprise level services would need
to explore the issue further with Mark as well as make their own
contingency plans.

In another off-list communication Mark said that he has two (maybe
three, don't remember for sure) other people who can step in and run
things if he ends up temporarily out of commission.

He is aware that he needs a complete plan though for more than a
temporary absence like in case a bus runs over him tomorrow (which, of
course, we hope doesn't happen). He said he is aware of that and is
working on a succession plan but it's in its early stages right now
and he pretty much is a one person operation for now.

At least he is aware that he's not immortal. :-)

Donald

Sharon,

I’m assuming from all I have read is that this service is on a firm
footing and will be “permanent.” Is that right?

That is certainly the intent. One can legitimately question whether the planning and execution within Groups.io as an organization will accomplish that intent.

For the current situation, Mark has said in off-list conversations that Groups.io has start-up funding sufficient to operate "for several years", even if income were zero. He also says that his projections show that the sale of Premium and Enterprise group services will remain sufficient to operate in the black even while supporting the Free services.

That's the good news.

I’ve been referring a lot of organizations that need a comprehensive
storage and communications site. They need to be able to depend on
for decades and expand into as their files and feature needs grow.

The thornier issue is "key man" vulnerability.

Until his organization grows a bit it is entirely dependent on him for all operations. That of course is not sustainable in the long run. I would expect that anyone purchasing Enterprise level services would need to explore the issue further with Mark as well as make their own contingency plans.

Shal

I’m assuming from all I have read is that this service is on a firm footing and will be “permanent.” Is that right? It seems like a much better business model than other services which are add-ons.

I’ve been referring a lot of organizations that need a comprehensive storage and communications site. They need to be able to depend on for decades and expand into as their files and feature needs grow.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines, Washington DC
Where all roads lead to Casablanca

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 08:40 am, Xaun Loc wrote:

From: Lena

I run my own mailserver and wrote spam filters for it by myself
I didn't make a Spam folder. My mailserver either places a message in Inbox
or refuses to accept it from the sender, so the human sender gets a descriptive
rejection message about that. Spammers never read rejection messages.

You're right that spammers never read rejection messages, unfortunately the
people whose address was spoofed as the sender get to read thousands of
those rejection messages.

No because I don't cause backscatter: instead of accepting spam and after that sending NDR (new emails / bounce messages) my sever refuses to accept what it classifies as spam. The refusal is an one-line error message beginning with 5 (the code for permanent error). If the message classified by my server as spam was sent by a human with authentication, the sender's "SMTP-server" makes a bounce message (including my server's error message). Spambots don't do that, they move to next recipient.

Shal Farley wrote:

I have an extremely negative opinion of email services which
reject, greylist, or blackhole messages based on RBL information.
I quit using Verizon as my ISP several years ago in part because I
learned their RBL use was causing list messages I wanted to go missing.

Blackholing is evil except in very few cases. But there are hundreds of various RBL black and white lists (enter your "SMTP-server"'s IP-assress at ). Depends on which RBLs to choose and how to use them. When I designed my mailserver's rules of spam filtering, my main goal was prevention of false positives. I use local and external whitelists, and use most of carefully selected by me blacklists for selective greylisting instead of rejecting. Selective greylisting means that if the sender is in some RBL or otherwise suspicious, my mailserver responds with a "try again later" message for 3 min after the first attempt. Real mailservers do retry later (usually 10-40 min later). Most spambots can't retry with the same combination of sender's IP-address and sender and recipient email addresses, they don't retry at all or retry with another spoofed sender email address. Common mistakes are period of greylisting longer than 3 min (useless and destructive), non-selective greylisting, not whitelisting some large email providers which may retry from another IP-address.

Without some use of RBLs, you'd drown in spam. But different RBLs give various rates of false positives, and it's possible to use RBL for measures other than rejection. BTW, I don't use "scoring" system for spam-filtering.

Sharon,

Another question — when are digest(s) sent? Does the first one go out
after 12 messages are received?

I don't think any of that has changed: a digest is sent whenever there's 12 (was 25) new messages to send, or when there is at least one new message to send and it is 10pm U.S. Pacific time (UTC-08:00).

Note, if the member is using the advanced subscription options this should be read as "messages to send to this subscriber". The advanced options allow the member to receive fewer than all messages in their digests.

Shal

Another question — when are digest(s) sent? Does the first one go out after 12 messages are received?

Sharon

Sharon,

What happens to the rest of the messages? A second digest message?

Yup, plus one to start a third. Assuming that many come in over the course of the day.

Shal

On Jan 28, 2017, at 4:27 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I'll have to disagree that this is not a user education issue. Automatic spam classification is not new. You'd think by now people would know about the need to declassify messages automated as spam or to whitefish in their email access method, but many don't.

Most email users just use it. They read the messages they receive, respond or send a new message. Yesterday I had to explain to a person who had been using email for 20 years that messages from the inbox and trash had to be emptied or messages would keep bouncing.

I remind me list users to “trim your tails”. Some people still didn’t. When I spoke to one in person, they said they didn’t know how. I had to explain how to select and delete.

I think the only way to deal with this would be to have a page of links to instructions for each of the email services. If Groups.io tries to keep its own instructions it gets difficult to revise whenever Yahoo or Gmail changes a setting. But a link to a help page would be helpful.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines, Historic Takoma Park, Washington DC
Where all roads lead to Casablanca