I have messages needing approval sent to my computer and approve them by replying to the message.

But they don’t all seem to be deleted from the Pending messages list after being approved by email.

If I’m the only one moderating, I know they have already been sent. But when another moderator steps in, they can approve them again while approving new messages.

Why aren’t these messages deleted when they are approved by email?

Sharon
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Sharon Villines, Washington DC

"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled." Sir Barnett Cocks

westvillageparents1,

Just want to confirm that you can only move Yahoo and Google groups to
Groups.io,

Those are the only ones with some automation to smooth the path.

or can I (fingers crossed) move my Big Tent group and all the
messages from the forum to Groups.io?

I haven't heard anything about that. You should ask [email protected] if that's something that can be done, either one-off or as a new automated procedure.

If you can export at least your Big Tent members list (their email addresses) then at the minimum you could invite them to a new group at Groups.io, or using the "Group Transfer" upgrade you can Direct Add them. The messages and other content maybe not so much. Mark (at Groups.io) has indicated in the past that he can bring in messages stored in an mbox format file, but there haven't been any recent reports from users who've had him do that.

Please post again here to let us know what you learn, or if you have more questions.

Shal


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Gerald,

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 09:37 AM, Patty Sliney wrote:

It is a foreign concept to my Yahoo Groups transfer members, so they tend to be the ones that are most frequently unsubbed.

That's one thing that causes a lot of confusion.? Yahoo expects their FBL notice to be observed, but they don't (at least, didn't) honor the same request.

Duane
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Tom,

There are two different icons I can use when I reply to this email online. There is an add pictures icon which will put the image in the email. This is the little mountain and the sun icon.

There is also the paper clip icon for attaching a file / image. I think it is obvious what that one should do.

For those using email, here is a nice webpage to explain.


--
Gerald

Not at all. I tried sending one to this topic, but it has not been approved yet.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 08:52 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

Not to non-members. For members you can turn off the masking using the setting Duane described.

Thanks to all who responded.?

I've now seen the re-mailed messages (I hadn't checked my e-mail yet when I asked, just the message displayed on the group home page) and was surprised to see the full address displayed. Sounds like the procedure Duane outlined will also display it to members on the homepage, and that is really enough.

Thanks again,
Dennis Storzek

You said:?
Perhaps the section on "How can I stop this from happening again?", or parts of it, should be brought out into its own page for easy reference by group members. Then maybe it could get some elaboration, or pointers to instructions, for different email services.

I do have a Wiki entry, and I also have set up a Guidelines notice to go out monthly to our group, about what will happen to you if you mark a groups.io list message as spam.? And, our Welcome letter also has a little blurp in it about NOT marking groups.io list messages as Spam, or emptying your Spam/Junk folder without looking for valid emails and restoring them as "NOT SPAM".? I think I've done everything I can do as a list owner to warn new and existing list members about this feature.? It is a foreign concept to my Yahoo Groups transfer members, so they tend to be the ones that are most frequently unsubbed.?

You said:? I understand that unsubscription has a certain ruthlessness to it ("learn or die"). And I've made my alternative suggestion:II d
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16955

Hah, well put, "learn or die".? That's how I feel, and agree with your suggestion of some other "corralling" of a suspected spam sender, rather than ruthlessly unsubbing them.?

You said: Eh? I don't see how this would happen to someone on No Email.

Let me correct that statement: We have a fairly significant amount of tranferred Yahoo Groups members who actually ARE receiving list messages in some fashion (individual or digest), but don't know it, and function as though they are No Mail by going to the list to read messages.? How?? Again, back to a fairly significant number of list members that just didn't understand the Yahoo Groups sign up process, created a yahoo.com email address they never used, the default email delivery on Yahoo Groups is Individual Emails, and just went to the list's home page to read and reply to list messages.? And, took that behavior with the to groups.io, since they don't even know they have a yahoo.com email address that has been receiving list messages (for years).? So, it's as though they're No Mail by virtue of how they read list messages.? If they get to their email and empty the gaillion spam emails, or, if Yahoo decides to mark groups.io email as spam, now they're unsubbed and will never see the restore email.? Have had a few of those folks get unsubbed. In fact, I had one list member vehemently argue with me that, "I have NEVER had a yahoo.com email".? I had to screen snip her old Yahoo Groups membership to prove to her she did.? Sigh...

Clearly, this seems to only be an issue for me, so, I will figure out how to deal with it best we can.? Otherwise, very happy with how Mark's designed groups.io, and it certainly beats the slow disintegration and dysfunction of Yahoo Groups.
--
Patty S.

Just want to confirm that you can only move Yahoo and Google groups to Groups.io, or can I (fingers crossed) move my Big Tent group and all the messages from the forum to Groups.io?

Thanks!

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 01:34 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

Which is first and foremost to satisfy the (former) member's email service that Groups.io will stop sending messages that get marked as spam. And to that end, the member and the service's filter must be trained not to mark Groups.io's messages as spam.

I think what too often gets lost in these discussions is that groups.io does not unsub people just to punish them. For whatever reason, the receiving email service got a message from groups.io that it BELIEVES TO BE SPAM, and on that basis has REQUESTED that its user be unsubbed. That's how these feedback loops work, and groups.io is just doing what it was told to do.?

Failing to act on this request may seem like no big deal, but it is. Back in February, a well-respected antivirus provider (Norton) began flagging groups.io as a phishing site. AVG and a handful of others soon followed suit. This situation persisted for nearly week. You can read all about it .

One of my subscribers contacted Norton and asked them what all the hubbub was about. He was referred to a perfectly innocuous groups.io message that had something to do with a party invitation.

I had just transferred our main group from Yahoo a week earlier, and had a great deal of difficulty convincing everyone in our club that we hadn't just made a terrible mistake.

The hope is that as groups.io grows and more email providers become "trained" to accept high email traffic from this source it will become less and less of a problem. Meanwhile, if an occasional subscriber gets bumped off my group and has to be reinstated, that's a very small price to pay to avoid a repeat of that experience.

Regards,
Bruce?
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Shal thanks. I did not do the invite but will consider that the next time this happens. ? I still like iogroups more then yahoo I guess. I did like yahoo when it was working properly. Now so many things don't work. ? My members get very upset if they are unsubbed and many won't come back. I might consider paying for the group. I would like to know what other advantages in paying does? ? Will the photos of the email folder be better? ? I am hoping this won't happen again. ? Anita

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 08:07 AM, Tom Otvos wrote:

But why doesn't the image show up for message itself?

Does the embedded image show up as a broken link, or not at all?

If the former, it could be a browser setting. I get broken links for any TIF files for example, as my browser cannot render them. Seems kinda unusual for a JPEG file, though.

If it's the latter, I'm stumped. Hopefully someone else can advise you.

How can I coach my members to send images in such a way that members who only interact with the group online won't be penalized?

Ask them to send all images as attachments instead of embedding them. Good luck getting subscribers to comply, though.

I have previously requested a group option to strip embedded images altogether, as a way to both enforce subscriber behavior and to keep such images from proliferating in the Emailed Photos folder. Unfortunately, such a setting does not currently exist.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 05:25 AM, SIRMick wrote:

We previously ran our list from a private server using the Mailman programme.? I have a message archive which I want to integrate into the list here so that all members are able to access it.

Is this possible and if so what is the best way to go about it.

There have been multiple discussions of this here in the GMF group:??/g/GroupManagersForum/search?q=MailMan? We have always told folks that they need to export their MailMan archive into Unix (mbox) format and ask Mark [support(at)groups.io] to upload it for them. To date, not a single person has reported back on any success with that.

You can tread that well-worn path again, but prepare for frustration. My best advice to you is to get your messages in some kind of human-readable (and text-searchable) format and upload that archive document into your Files area.

Good luck,
Bruce?
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Hi,
If your group messages are moderated, the email address in the pending message can be highlighted and switched to plain text, i.e., without the underline and the color change that would eventually figleaf it. That is one of three options offered by the system.

You would start your message with a note to the moderator requesting that edit.

Hope that helps,
Linda

Our group tends to send quite a few images in our messages. I do have some scaling settings established to keep it under control, but a user reported the following. When he views the group traffic online (he prefers not to get any emails), he notes that some users (me included) do not have any attached images visible in the message body. Other messages, including emailed responses to messages where the images are "missing", have the images.

Digging deeper, I can see that my messages have got the images in the "Emailed Images" album, and an image will be correctly cross-referenced to the source message. But why doesn't the image show up for message itself? In the raw source for the message, the images are "inline":

--Apple-Mail=_E53DDA7F-CE96-4ED6-98E5-4FBF125B5530
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline;
	filename=UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_62bd.jpeg
Content-Type: image/jpeg;
	name="UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_62bd.jpeg"
Content-Id: <BC049426-76CD-4FDD-914F-363979261743@lan>

We previously ran our list from a private server using the Mailman programme.? I have a message archive which I want to integrate into the list here so that all members are able to access it.

Is this possible and if so what is the best way to go about it.

Thanks

Patty,

instead of unsubbing list members, why not suspend them, so
mods can restore them?

Because allowing mods to reinstate the members would defeat the whole purpose. Which is first and foremost to satisfy the (former) member's email service that Groups.io will stop sending messages that get marked as spam. And to that end, the member and the service's filter must be trained not to mark Groups.io's messages as spam.

It is either the vicious cycle (more marking as spam means more deliveries to the spam folder means more marking as spam), or the virtuous cycle of the reverse trend.

I haven't had any issues on Yahoo Groups with spammers getting into my
lists, ...

Keep in mind that this issue has nothing directly to do with members sending actual spam, or spammers getting into your group. It is about the behavior of /receiving/ members, and their email services.

Granted if there are groups on Groups.io that do deliver messages that their members sincerely believe to be spam, that's a problem - for all groups on Groups.io - as it drives the vicious cycle. One advantage of unsubscription is that it tamps these down too - spam-filled groups lose members.

Shal


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Patty,

But, my list members are not nearly savvy enough to figure out how to
create a spam filter.

Well, not a "spam filter" per se, but a filter for group messages. But I take your meaning.

Perhaps the section on "How can I stop this from happening again?", or parts of it, should be brought out into its own page for easy reference by group members. Then maybe it could get some elaboration, or pointers to instructions, for different email services.

Still hoping I can drum up support for having Mark adjust this, so
list members aren't unsubbed, ...

I understand that unsubscription has a certain ruthlessness to it ("learn or die"). And I've made my alternative suggestion:


Every now and then I've thought perhaps I should flesh out that seed of an idea into a more fully considered proposal, but I keep stumbling on the fact that I think allowing the mods to resume a member would defeat the purpose. And without that ability you'd likely be faced with the same level of effort to get the member to un-status him/herself. Also, Mark seems firmly convinced that unsubscription is the best way to force the issue to be resolved, despite all the objections presented in beta.

Confounding the issue, I'm sure, is that some fraction (and I don't know if it is large or small) of the spam markings are probably by members who actually want to leave the group, but have been trained not to ever trust the "unsubscribe" link in a message, but to use their service's "Spam" button instead.

Many wouldn't figure that out for days, maybe longer, if they're on No
Mail, ...

Eh? I don't see how this would happen to someone on No Email.

Except maybe as a "time-bomb" lurking in their Spam folder if they've switched to No Email within the last month (or whatever their service's expiration time is).

On the other hand most of my other groups have only intermittent activity, so the idea that a member might go several days or longer before realizing that they haven't heard anything in a while isn't too far-fetched.

On the gripping hand those groups also have smaller membership and very little for me to do as a mod. So far this has happened to exactly one of those members (an AOL address) and he promptly resumed himself.

Shal


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Anita,

I never saw that resume link you mentioned. Where is that?

In the email notice sent to the member after they've been unsubscribed.

Where is direct add?

That's a Premium feature, but I don't know why Invite wouldn't work. Subject to the same concern about whether the person's email service will let them see anything from Groups.io.

My problem is so many things go in this email photo folder and
duplicates. It picks up so many things as images that should not be
picked up.

Yeah, I know. Many group owners have found it to be a great inconvenience. My suggestion may have been overkill... ;-)


Shal


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Dennis,

... but there are times when one wants the e-mail address visible
to the public. Is there a way to force groups.io to display an
address?

Not to non-members. For members you can turn off the masking using the setting Duane described.

So your only option may be a work-around such as Jim suggested.

Shal


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