Duane

Thanks. That sounds logical.

Jeremy

The 'fixed' text can't be changed or moved.? You could suggest on beta@ that you be allowed to move your text above the boilerplate or at least just below the "Hello [Name],".

Duane
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I finally found a group with few enough members, and with the discrepancy, where I could compare 1:1.? Seems that anyone that is bouncing (red or blue) or that is NC doesn't show in the Directory.

Duane
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Thanks, but methinks you misunderstand my issue.

On the GMF directory page, it now says "Showing 122 of 507 Members". The 122 is the number of members who have made their profile visible, the difference (507-122 = 385), the number who have chosen (or left as default) "Only group owners & moderators", so whose listing I cannot see, as you say. That I understand. But looking? at the home page, it says (under group information), it says "515 Members', it is the difference between the 515 and 507 that I don't understand, and am asking about.

Jeremy

I can add a datum, too.

Request to transfer sent ca. 4:30 on the 19th
Transfer completed ca 21:30 on the 22nd

All 143 members were transferred except one who was marked as bouncing. Files and messages were transferred. We lost about a third of our photos. I tried to download a bunch of photos earlier this week and experienced a lot of problems (http 500 server errors), so that was not surprising.

All in all, I'm quite pleased.

Bruce

I was about to send an invite to the transfer agent for three groups, when
I decided to re-check the instructions to be sure I hadn't missed anything.

. . . . . .

By some coincidence the instruction page has been updated, and now
you start the process by clicking a button and filling in a form.

. . . . . .

This side-steps all the problems with trying to use Y!Groups
Invite mechanism (which some report is working now...).

Very nice.

Shal

Very nice indeed!! With some of the groups I helped move recently we had to resort to the Yahoo request membership option, which seemed to work better than expected. This may streamline things a lot for Mark.

Dano

Dave,

Apparently, that assumption is wrong and several are worked on
simultaneously, is that correct?

Mark hasn't said too much about how that is happening behind the scenes, but he did mention once that he doesn't (didn't) accept all invitations immediately because Yahoo limits how many groups he can join in a limited amount of time.

That being the case, and given the implication made that some
transfers run into problems, would it not help matters if there was
some outreach in cases such as these?

I don't think so. There's really nothing a Y!Group mod/owner can do to straighten out access to his/her group's resources. That's really a server issue on Yahoo's side.

I'm sure the reason [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> is
made a moderator is to be able to fix those issues, ...

As Dano said, the issue is access. The first thing that gets copied is the Y!group's Manage Members list, and for that the transfer agent must be signed in as a moderator of the group. Then, when downloading Conversations and other content the transfer agent must be able to determine which Y!Group member contributed that content - so again being a moderator is required.

Shal


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In addition to what Duane said, Step 3 may take more or less time for a given group depending on how well the copy operation goes.

From reading the forum here, I was under the impression that the transfer operations for the various different groups were worked on and completed in succession. Apparently, that assumption is wrong and several are worked on simultaneously, is that correct?

That being the case, and given the implication made that some transfers run into problems, would it not help matters if there was some outreach in cases such as these? It certainly would cut down on the number of posts and threads on this forum such as this one about how long a transfer takes. And also especially if there is something the owner(s) of the YG could do to help clear up the problems on the YG. I'm sure the reason [email protected] is made a moderator is to be able to fix those issues, but if owners could help resolve them, it might speed things up and help with the backlog.

Dave

'Transfer' is made a moderator so that it has the right to open and copy everything without problems of access rights. Many of the transfer problems are associated with files that may not access or copy correctly, depending on a large number of influences created by two years of deferred maintenance of Y! groups. When I transferred the first of my groups about 10 months ago, even at that time there were missing file errors. Errors can be varied and unique to the particular group and its idiosyncrasies. There is nothing group owners can do to help the process, or Mark would have incorporated that a long time ago. It would likely take many times longer to explain what needs to be done than to do it himself.

From my experience, one thing I can warn you you're liable to encounter after the transfer is messages with octothorpes (#) in the titles which become hashtags. I had a dozen posts that came across that I had to edit to replace '#' with 'number', because the initial transfer converted them to hashtags, and hashtags go at the end of titles.

Given the number of groups that are now scrambling to get transferred, I'm quite certain that Mark has multiple transfers running at any one time and those are likely done on multiple systems running simultaneously. Given the volume of work going on, the continuous reporting you're talking about would be a huge waste of time for Mark. Time estimates would likely be a best guess anyway, given the vagaries of Yahoo and the unknowns of things that might be encountered. When it's done, Mark will give you a overview of things copied, things not copied and perhaps problems encountered.

As for how the process is done, the differences between groups are so great that it is likely impossible to guess beforehand how Mark transfers each one. I think it's very likely that he has several groups in various stages of transfer at one time, but problems encountered in one might delay it while another seemingly similar group is completed right away. Given the process and the unknowns, it's probably better to just know that it is happening and be patient. If there is a major obstacle, Mark will be in contact. When it's done, he will be in contact. For now it's best to just sit back, chat with the others along on the journey and let the pilot do his job.

Dano

Wow!

I was about to send an invite to the transfer agent for three groups, when I decided to re-check the instructions to be sure I hadn't missed anything.

Glad I did.

By some coincidence the instruction page has been updated, and now you start the process by clicking a button and filling in a form. This side-steps all the problems with trying to use Y!Groups Invite mechanism (which some report is working now...).

One of the key advantages is that the application to transfer is tied to your Groups.io login from the outset, which means an immediate acknowledgement by your email address here, again side-stepping the sometimes problematic Y!Groups -owner email address.

You enter the Y!Group name on the form, and select the Groups.io group from a drop-list of your groups. So that makes that easier. A bunch of checkboxes for what you want to transfer, and whether you want an automatic notice to the copied members at the end. This has got to be saving Mark oodles of time - hopefully far more than it took to create it.
/yahootransfer

Astonishingly, one of the three groups got the notification from Yahoo that the transfer agent had joined the group within a couple hours of filling in the form (the other two still waiting). So that group has given the "Go" (again on the form) and waits for its turn to transfer, while the other two wait for the agent to join.

Very nice.

Shal


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Don't they have the option of simply switching off the spam filter completely?

That would depend on the email service they're using.

In Gmail, for example, no I don't think you can. You can add filters that will automatically place messages into your Inbox instead of the Spam folder, but I'm not sure if you can do that for *all* messages.

I have gone round and round with my ISP about this and the short answer is no, they won't. I suspect it's a liability issue for them, so having some kind of spam filtering protects them, or at least gives them plausible deniability.

Unless the service can absolutely guarantee no false positives (which I don't think is possible) I don't see any value in it. If you have to chack the spam folder for messages that shouldn't be there, what is the point? If you don't check it, you will (not might) miss genuine messages.

That's a frequent criticism of Spam filtering generally. And the weaker the filter the more valid the complaint.

The utility is usually is that the spam isn't "cluttering your inbox" and doesn't cause new-message alerts in your interface. Also, in some systems (like Gmail) messages in the Spam folder are held at arm's length a little: the HTML in them isn't fully rendered, making them a bit safer / less obnoxious to preview.

Yes, a false-positive result can cause you to miss a desired email if you don't check the spam folder periodically. But at least you can do that at a time when you're not on-the-go or otherwise busy.

The spam filtering from my ISP is so bad that I have to go in twice a day and select everything in the "Junk-Mail" folder and mark it as "Not junk". Nothing ever goes into the "Spam" folder itself, but if I set the system to put everything into the In box, it marks those items as "SPAM" in the title. Of course that messes up trying to follow threads in my email unless I go through and alter the titles of all those messages. It's easier to go in twice a day and mark everything in my Junk mail folder "Not junk".

If I look at what the system actually tags as junk, false positives are probably 99+%. And the irony is that they system catches less than 1% of the spam. My AVG running on my computers catches the malicious stuff, not my ISP. So it's actually less useful than not having anything. I suppose considering DMARC, marking everything as junk instead of spam is a positive, but the whole situation for me is a waste of time.

Dano

They're both correct.? The number on the home page will match the members list seen by the moderators (or all members if that's enabled) which includes all members.? The Directory is for members of your group, but if they don't set it to "Other members of your group" or to "Public", nothing shows for them.? If one of those isn't chosen, meaning they've chosen "Only group owners & moderators", you can't see their listing and they can't see yours.

Duane
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Looking at the number members of a group, the figure on the group home page doesn't always match that on the directory page (for this Group [GMF] the figures are 517 on the home page, but only 509 on the directory page (of which only 122 listed)), another group I'm in it's 1463 vs 1298. I'm not a moderator of either group, so I can't see what the members pages give.

I would expect them to be the same, except possibly a small difference of 1 or 2 due to timing issues,

Can anybody throw light on this, or say which is the 'right' number? Or if they correctly different, what they represent?

Jeremy

Basically - Just want to set up a group for an HOA to act as a bulletin board where members can post ideas, comments, complaints etc.? ??
? Most people here are over 50.??

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Hurray, It was just transferred. I made the request on Feb 15th. I checked and all the members are there and all the messages, photos, and files were transferred.
Stan

On 21 Feb 2018 at 15:02, Duane wrote:

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 02:12 pm, Group Moderator wrote:

You're saying a message can get sent to Spam on its own, and then can get
automatically deleted on its own (!), triggering the member to be
unsubscribed? Is there nothing that can be done about this?

Yes, it really happens.? It gets reported and/or asked about often.? Nothing
can be done about it until the email services stop doing it.? Some services
don't have a way to add things to a white-list.? The only way around it, for
now anyway, is for the folks on those services to change to another one that
doesn't have the problem. ;>)

Don't they have the option of simply switching off the spam filter completely?
Unless the service can absolutely guarantee no false positives (which I don't
think is possible) I don't see any value in it. If you have to chack the spam
folder for messages that shouldn't be there, what is the point? If you don't
check it, you will (not might) miss genuine messages.

Jim Fisher

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>>In addition to what Duane said, Step 3 may take more or less time for a given group depending on how well the copy operation goes.

From reading the forum here, I was under the impression that the transfer operations for the various different groups were worked on and completed in succession. Apparently, that assumption is wrong and several are worked on simultaneously, is that correct?

That being the case, and given the implication made that some transfers run into problems, would it not help matters if there was some outreach in cases such as these? It certainly would cut down on the number of posts and threads on this forum such as this one about how long a transfer takes. And also especially if there is something the owner(s) of the YG could do to help clear up the problems on the YG. I'm sure the reason [email protected]?is made a moderator is to be able to fix those issues, but if owners could help resolve them, it might speed things up and help with the backlog.

Dave

hmmm.? ?The fact that everyone shares the same storage limit is also not documented - and I'm not sure that it is true.? ?I have a subgroup using 78MB of photo storage, but when looking at the main group, it only lists 46MB photo storage used.


But to the original comment it was more of a user interface issue.? ?I wouldn't inherently look under an Upgrade menu item for Usage information...

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