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Jane,

? I'd very much like to hear a thorough explanation and discussion -
lawyers' arguments in plain English - of everything I have underlined.

IANAL ("I Am Not A Lawyer"), but here's my understanding.

_any_

Messages, Photos, Files, Wiki content, etc.

_you hereby grant and will grant Groups.io and its affiliated
companies_

hereby - By accepting this agreement. The "and will grant" I'm not as sure of, but I think the lawyer is extending your grant to future time because you will be uploading new content after "now". The affiliated companies would be any companies that Groups.io contracts with, for example purchasing online storage from AWS (Amazon Web Services).

_royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sub licensable or,
perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform,
distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content_

Well, there's a mouthful.

Although you retain copyright to your contributions, this license (aka "permission") means that you can't ask Groups.io to pay for your content, to take down your content, nor can you restrict how they use it. EXCEPT

in connection with the operation of the Service.

Is usually interpreted to mean that they can't use your content in their advertising or in some other service of theirs. That meaning is backed up by the following sentence:

The Company will not use any User Content you provide to any email
group for any purpose other than to provide the Services, for the
operation of the Services and to otherwise improve or enhance the
Services.

"The Service" is limited by the Services Description section near the top. Which is remarkably terse!

Services Description

The Service is designed to make it easy to create, manage, run and
find email groups.

So, in the event you got into a legal contest with Groups.io, the lawyers would make hay arguing about whether a given use (or from your point of view, misuse) falls within that description.

The key thing that caught my eye was "perpetual, irrevocable". Contrast this with the last sentence of section 9.1 of Yahoo's TOS:

This license exists only for as long as you elect to continue to
include such Content on the Yahoo Services and will terminate at the
time you remove or Yahoo removes such Content from the Yahoo Services.

So, Yahoo allows you to remove (delete) your content, and when you do Yahoo loses its license to display or use it. In fact, there have been times (when Yahoo Customer Care was more active than now) when a former member of a group could call upon Customer Care to delete their content even when the moderators of the group removed the member specifically to prevent such removal. Customer Care would ask the group owner to delete the content, or allow the former member back in to delete it, on penalty of having the group itself deleted by Customer Care. So they took that clause of the TOS seriously.

Shal

Re granting Groups Io's license to use our content

"By uploading any?User Content you hereby grant and will grant Groups.io and its?affiliated?companies?a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid?up,?transferable, sub licensable?or,?perpetual, irrevocable license to?copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and?otherwise?use your User Content?in connection with the operation of the Service.

THE SWIGG CATS,

... the owner of one [Yahoo] group recently created a Groups IO
version of said group. Posts from new members of said group are
moderated, which we believe is standard operating procedure for
Groups IO, ...

As with Yahoo Groups, the moderation policy for a Groups.io group is set by the group's management (mods with the permission to change it, or owners). It may be that the defaults for a new group include moderation of posts, I don't recall.

Unfortunately, in the case of the new group entitled "[redacted]" ...
the owner appears to have created the group and then disappeared into
thin air. ...
Is there anything that can be done so that the six members can post
messages and have those messages show up?

I'm in agreement with what J wrote: not much time has elapsed yet and it may be that the owner of the Groups.io group does not consider it "active" yet - that it was created primarily as a placeholder or test bed for learning while waiting to see what happens with the Yahoo Group.

You didn't mention whether the Yahoo Group is still active, or whether the management of it has made any announcements about moving to Groups.io. If the Yahoo Group is still active then there's probably no reason to be concerned about the Groups.io group yet.

So, if you haven't already, one thing to try is contacting the group management to see what they have to say. Use the "Owner" contact email address for both the Yahoo Group and the Groups.io group. The addresses are listed on the groups' home pages.

To address your question directly, as far as I know Groups.io has not yet set any policy or procedure in place to handle situations where the group management becomes unresponsive. So your best bet for that would probably be to contact [email protected] for assistance. But I'd let that wait until you've exhausted other avenues.

Shal

Now that "Yahoo!" groups were recently taken over by Verizon, and given the declining use of Yahoo! groups and the possibility that such groups may soon be closed, the owner of one such group recently created a Groups IO version of said group. Posts from new members of said group are moderated, which we believe is standard operating procedure for Groups IO, until new members can post acceptable messages and are shown to be responsible group members. Unfortunately, in the case of the new group entitled "[redacted]" ([redacted]@groups.io), the owner appears to have created the group and then disappeared into thin air. She is neither approving nor denying messages that are posted to the group. Nor is she "unmoderating" new members. So in essence, the group "[redacted]@groups.io" is useless.There are six members in the group. I have personally posted several messages to the group, but none of my messages have been approved or rejected. The statistics on the front page of the group indicates there are six members and 0 conversation threads. Is there anything that can be done so that the six members can post messages and have those ?messages show up?

Hi all,

This week's change log:
/g/beta/message/13842

* CHANGE: Reorganized the Settings page with help from J and Shal.

Hopefully you'll find it better organized and easier to understand.


* UPDATE: Revamped Definitions and Hashtags sections of the Help page with J's new text.

Easier to read, and far more comprehensive coverage than before.

I've tracked these updates into the GMF Mock-up.
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Groups.io-Help-page-Mock-up

If you have the inspiration please add more words; post your questions and comments.

Anyone feeling the inspiration should review GMF's other wiki pages to see if there are things that have been obsoleted by or should cite material in the the updated help page. Note the handy permalinks that appear if you hover your mouse to the left of major headings in the Help page.


* CHANGE: All instances of the Summernote editor have been replaced by the TinyMCE editor, except editing wiki pages.

Yay! I'm still liking it.


* CHANGE: Rolled back the price increase on premium plans. Once again, it's $10/month.

Yay! Now buying a month or two for my PTA group during school registration is a no-brainer again.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

* BUGFIX: Display lock/gavel in the expanded message view.
* BUGFIX: Hashtags set as special are now forced to be moderator only.
* BUGFIX: Upgraded version of TinyMCE to fix a Firefox autolink problem.
* NEW: New annual premium plan ($99/year).
* INTERNAL: Initial work on upgrading the search engine software
* NEW: Added 'Ynt:' as a signifier that a message is a reply (like Re:).
* INTERNAL: Added rel=nofollow to prevent some search engine crawling.
* CHANGE: The /manage URL is now /settings, to reflect name of the page.
* CHANGE: Researched a case where Gmail decided a specific Groups.io /mt URL was a phishing URL and would display warnings when viewing any email with that link in it. To combat this, I changed all Groups.io mute/unmute/follow/unfollow links within emails to be unique to the individual receiving the message.
* BUGFIX: Fixed optimistic locking issue with the bouncer program.
* INTERNAL: Completed and rolled out changes to how we use sql savepoints in the database.
* CHANGE: Changed the display of poll results on mobile to be more clear.
* CHANGE: For 'Message to Member' group notices, don't have the option to set one as active, as that doesn't make sense.


Please call out any you find significant.

Shal

Hi all,

Prior weeks' change logs:
/g/beta/message/13683 2017-05-12
/g/beta/message/13745 2017-05-19


* Upgraded the official Terms of Service with Oracle's changes.

I think the final version is pretty benign. You can check the versions out here, use the Compare Revisions button:
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Groups.io-TOS/history

Something I noticed a while ago, and which might be worth discussing, is that when we post in Groups.io we are granting Groups.io a perpetual and irrevocable license to use our content. This differs in a significant way from the Yahoo TOS, wherein we grant them a license to use our content, but only for so long as they or we do not remove it from the service.


* Various wording changes on the hashtags pages, suggested by J.


* Display bouncing/bounced members in the normal members view.

I like that this can help you see the person's old and new email address together in one place - if they've set the same Display Name for both they can be sorted together. In the early stages of setting up a group using Direct Add it helps to show which members' email addresses have been corrected and which have not yet.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

* BUGFIX: All day events that spanned multiple days in the ICS feeds were missing the final day, because DTEND in the ICS spec is non-inclusive.
* BUGFIX: Banning actions were not being logged correctly in the activity log.
* CHANGE: Display chat closed flash message if attempting to join a previously closed chat.
* BUGFIX: When editing a topic from the search results, return to the search results when done.
* INTERNAL: Upgraded to the latest version of the Stripe library.
* NEW: Testing a 'Clean Links' function in the edit pending message TinyMCE editor.
* SYSADMIN: Upgraded system software.
* INTERNAL: Now storing deploy information, and annotating graphs with it.
* INTERNAL: More work on the API and the app.
* OTHER: Researched adding the ability to accept PayPal. The current state of the PayPal API for accepting recurring payments is a mess, however, with deprecated APIs and no new APIs yet for accepting recurring payments.
* INTERNAL: Work on replacing all instances of the Summernote editor with the TinyMCE editor.
* INTERNAL: Work on changing how sql savepoints are used in the database api; removing most of them.
* INTERNAL: Rearchitected how event reminders are done to remove a race condition and to make them more reliable.
* INTERNAL: Ran a consistency check to clean up some mismatched denormalized fields between thread and message objects in the database and search cluster.
* INTERNAL: Return 404s to bots trying to index search pages and message pages indexed by month.
* CHANGE: Trim space on database table URLs to prevent broken links.
* BUGFIX: For HTML messages with a blockquoted reply that also had a 'In a message dated' prefix, we were treating the entire message as a quoted reply and collapsing the entire thing.
* BUGFIX: For some other messages we were treating the entire message as a quoted part, so the entire message was collapsed.
* BUGFIX: Polls weren't working for people who were testing the new TinyMCE code.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal

Hello All,

? ? ? ? ? I generally dislike both and avoid them like the plague. ?However, there are rare instances where if I think there is a possibility of something meant in jest being misinterpreted where I will use the "winking smiley" emoticon: ?;-)

? ? ? ? ? There are many places where options exist to have emoticons converted to emoji on preview or send, and I could have sworn that I saw that setting under Groups.io somewhere at some point in the distant past, but if it is here I can't find it now.

? ? ? ? ? ?Can anyone confirm or refute that there are any settings whatsoever related to either emoticons or emojis?
--
Brian??-?Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
? ??~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's?

Daniel,

I'm looking at importing a list of members from our old mailing
software into a subgroup and have been testing this out with just my
own personal email. It seems that groups.io is generating 4 emails:

As you may have surmised, that's because adding a member to the subgroup automatically adds them to the primary (main) group.

Is there any way to cut this down to just 2, or even 1 email?

I don't think you can eliminate 3 & 4, they are there to make sure the person is informed and consenting.

It used to be that 1 & 2 (the Welcome messages) would not be sent for Transfers or Direct Add if you left the stock message in place, but would if you modified it. However, the interface for Member Notices has been radically altered since that time, so it may not work that way anymore.

You might want to experiment with marking none of your Welcome Messages as "Active", or having none in your list, or something like that. I can't readily test this for you because I don't have the Direct Add feature in my test group.

My thought was that the Direct Add feature would help us more
seamlessly transition into groups.io, but I'm worried about
"blasting" our members from the start.

It may be that the best you can do is forewarn the members about the upcoming messages. It is likely a good idea to forewarn them about the change in any case.

I'm guessing your old list isn't Yahoo or Google Groups (or else you might consider the Easy Group Transfer method). But have a look at this Wiki page and see if you can adapt any of the ideas to your circumstances:
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Transfer-from-Yahoo-Groups

Good luck!
Shal

Hello! I'm looking at importing a list of members from our old mailing software into a subgroup and have been testing this out with just my own personal email. It seems that groups.io is generating 4 emails:

1. "Welcome" for the main group
2. "Welcome" for the subgroup
3. "You have been added by the moderators" for the main group
4. "You have been added by the moderators" for the sub?group

Is there any way to cut this down to just 2, or even 1 email? My thought was that the Direct Add feature would help us more seamlessly transition into groups.io, but I'm worried about "blasting" our members from the start. Thanks!

Jean,

I recently uploaded two test photos from my Iphone. The metadata
captured by Groups.io shows that the photos were taken at 2:42 p.m.;
and posted at 11:45 a.m. (clearly impossible). They were actually
taken at 11:42 a.m. and they were posted at 11:45 a.m. Eastern
Daylight time.

As Duane said the three-hour shift does suggest a mistake in Groups.io's handling of the date/time metadata in your photos (the "taken" time). As if the EXIF time was presumed to be Pacific, and needed adjustment for display in Eastern.

The time zone on my group in Groups.io set to Eastern time.

The what now?

Groups don't have a time zone.

You can set the display time zone on a group's calendar page, but I'm pretty sure that controls only the calendar display.

Each member of a group has a time zone in their account preferences. I believe that is supposed to control the display of date/time on all other pages.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why this is happening and what could
be done to correct it?

Probably only Groups.io can fix it.

Perhaps the EXIF data Groups.io uses doesn't include the UTC time offset, leading to a need to "guess". But even if that's the case, the local time of the person doing the upload would be a better guess than Pacific.

Shal

Sugar,

No, I still get that note, but I wll try again and report back

When you try again, cc to me off-list, or to my test group:
[email protected]
and I'll be able to see if you have attachments.

Or, another thing you can do is change the group's Attachments setting from "Bounce" to "Strip". Strip will mean that your message will go through to the group, but any attachments will be removed.

Shal

No, I still get that note, but I wll try again and report back
sugar

"We must alter our lives in order to alter our hearts, for it is impossible to live one way and pray another."
-Sugar Lopez

Sugar,

I just did that. thanks

So... your problem is solved then?

You turned off whatever was putting images at the bottom of your messages, and now you can post to your group?

Shal

I just did that. thanks

"We must alter our lives in order to alter our hearts, for it is impossible to live one way and pray another."
-Sugar Lopez

Sugar,

I will get a “mail demon” returned saying that my e mail was not
deliverable for some odd reason.

That "some odd reason" is undoubtedly significant. If you don't understand what it says, copy it to a message here and someone may know.

The last one I sent was a simple “thank you” for having the owner
post a recipe for me because I couldn’t post and I got that post back
stating “no attachments are allowed” there were no attachments just a
thank you.

Are you sure?

Have a look at your message as posted here in GMF. See that big vase of flowers at the bottom? That image is in a file attached to your message. So if GMF did not allow attachments your reply would have been bounced back by the mailer daemon and would never have reached GMF.

But I would have seen a "Message bounced because of attachments" entry in GMF's Activity log, had I bothered to look.

It is the only group that this is happening to.

Possibly it is the only group (of which you're a member) that disallows attachments.

Shal

Frances,

? ? ? ? ? Thanks much. ?With this one I didn't simplify as much as I might have because I'm dealing with an audience that uses screen readers and they suffer from unintentional "information blackout" in many cases because it can take forever to tab your way, item by item, through the controls on a page. ?In this case they'll most likely want to skip over these entirely, but I wanted to avoid confusion if someone is doing an item by item traversal of the page. ? Were this for sighted individuals much of what I have there, including this radio buttons cluster description, would be omitted because, well, you can see it the moment the page is loaded.

? ? ? ? ? ?I will definitely change the phrasing on that point to, "regular delivery options, which will have some or all of the following options:"

Brian