Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 12:54 AM, Jim Wilson wrote:
One of our users who posts several times a day suddenly noticed that their posts were sometimes not showing up for days. Also, when their posts finally became available in the timeline, not a single word could be found through "Search Conversations" whatsoever. Well, stand by, because you're probably not going to believe what I found.
After researching this extensively, I discovered that no post made after January 8th, 2019, has been indexed, meaning that no post since that date can be searched or will be included in any search results!
Jim, I concur. I became a club President and thereby sought Admin rights on a group. I can confirm that likewise, no 'system logging' as found under 'Management/ Activity logging' has been functioning since or by mid-November 2018. Absolutely none. ?Yes there are some moderator functions that are still recorded under other headings, but not the full brace. regards davew
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Ken? Actually there are two members most vocal in preventing the transfer. They believe that groups.io has an agenda and are using the Premium group revenue to finance promotion of left-wing political view. They point at the note at the top of the page on? ?/static/pricing
I am not concerned how money gets spent. I am concerned that this objection is creating a hurdle in this move.?
Prasad
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Re: Lock or Moderate on Hashtag
On 5/14/2019 03:18, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 10:22 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
What I am wondering is if there an automated way of handling this problem. For example, if a particular hashtag, like #resolution or something was used, the thread would be locked from the start. People could reply to the sender, but not the group.
I thought of yet another way to do this, which is rather than use a hashtag, create an "announce" subgroup, enroll the entire primary group in it, mark the subgroup as reply-to-sender and tell people to send their resolutions and whatnot there. There would be some ongoing synchronization work, but not bad. Best, Glenn
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Jim, The only reason we /haven't/ moved to Groups.IO already is because
there is no current facility to move post attachments intact or at
least referenced within the post. ... Mark Fletcher??!! Right name, wrong place. Mark doesn't read GMF. Hopefully he will take into consideration your suggestion in beta: Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Rosalee, In IO groups how can we see a members IP address ? We can't. Mostly. The most recent IP address used when accessing the group's web site is not recorded as part of a member's profile or subscription record. I think that is because IP addresses are a bit too slippery for use as an identifier. /g/GroupManagersForum/message/16334That information probably is in Groups.io's server logs, but those logs are not made available to group owners, and are probably not kept for very long. If you are a moderator or owner of the group you can look at the "View Source" of a member's recent posting or pending message, and any member subscribed to individual messages who receives the member's post may examine the header of message, but the message header may or may not reveal the IP address used when the member sent the message. Some email services do, some don't, and some such as Gmail do if the member sends via an app (SMTP) but not if the member sends the message from their web interface. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
I know that every member is important to some extent, but is this member worth that much to you your group to warrant this much attention given to him? If he doesn't want to move to Groups IO when you make the move, let him remove anything personal that he wants to remove and then let him remove himself.
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Groups IO is a MUCH BETTER platform to use for groups then Yahoo ever was even in its good day.
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Leeni
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-------Original Message-------
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Date: 05/19/19 12:50:47
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
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Pra
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Do you know his precise objection, content, whatever that is his io concern???His mind may never be changed but might be more cooperative if the powers emphasize with him.??Or maybe there¡¯s some very basic misunderstanding???If you can get on his side of the fence maybe he¡¯d be more cooperative in a partnership to do the transfer. ie, him deleting it before or after.??He¡¯s got some bug up his butt that needs scratching, maybe it¡¯s something that mark can address or maybe he¡¯s all wet.
Personally I¡¯m interested in what agenda ¡°mark has¡±.
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Many times some hand holding will get where everyone wants to head rather than hand slapping. If it doesn¡¯t work then at least you have the documentation that you did your best to accommodate.??I doubt he has any legal standing to prevent the transfer, but....
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All that communication back channel so it doesn¡¯t proliferate thru the group.
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Does his content include anything that another member may have block quoted in a reply??????C¡¯mon, really.
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In IO groups how can we see a members IP address ?
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Pra
Do you know his precise objection, content, whatever that is his io concern? His mind may never be changed but might be more cooperative if the powers emphasize with him. Or maybe there¡¯s some very basic misunderstanding? If you can get on his side of the fence maybe he¡¯d be more cooperative in a partnership to do the transfer. ie, him deleting it before or after. He¡¯s got some bug up his butt that needs scratching, maybe it¡¯s something that mark can address or maybe he¡¯s all wet.
Personally I¡¯m interested in what agenda ¡°mark has¡±.
Many times some hand holding will get where everyone wants to head rather than hand slapping. If it doesn¡¯t work then at least you have the documentation that you did your best to accommodate. I doubt he has any legal standing to prevent the transfer, but....
All that communication back channel so it doesn¡¯t proliferate thru the group.
Does his content include anything that another member may have block quoted in a reply???? C¡¯mon, really.
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Absolutely - posting even to a private group essentially makes the post public to anyone in the group or who subsequently joins the group. Furthermore, unless his posts explicitly state that they are not to be shared further, then text can be assume to be posted for the benefit and fair use of all group members. Tim.
On 19/05/2019 14:22, Ellen wrote:
Wouldn¡¯t anything he posted to the group be ¡°public¡± once it¡¯s posted? If his replies to members were public, then there isn¡¯t a problem.
Ellen
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Wouldn¡¯t anything he posted to the group be ¡°public¡± once it¡¯s posted? If
his replies to members were public, then there isn¡¯t a problem.
Ellen
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From: Prasad via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious
objections, how to handle
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Yes,
we have already created the new group here and we have a plan to crowd fund to
raise the money. We like the "Premium" level group and our plan is to maintain
it at Premium level even after the first year. That answers one part.
Now the second part which is tough. The particular member has now
explained the reason for his objection. He says he is objecting because "owners/operators
of groups.io had kept their political agenda out of their hosting business - I
would have been fine with moving there...?They
made their agenda public - and that's where _I_ have to draw a line....".
He says "You
DO NOT have my permission to transfer/move, or to cause to be moved/transferred,
any of my my personal information: including, but not necessarily limited to: my
email addresses, Yahoo user names, and/or Yahoo account info to groups.io -- or
to any other venue."
OK,
it is clear that he is not on board. So he has to go.? Before it can be
done I have generally scanned the files and photos section and there are no
files or photos posted by this member. But there are a huge number of?
posts? that he started and also his replies to posts made by other members.
Do we need to delete each and every such post that has any reference to him?
That would be a herculean task and even if it is done, it would make us lose a
big lot of useful archive data.
I am confused..
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
From my perspective having moved several groups from Yahoo to Groups.io, your best bet is this: tell him that if he objects to having anything he has posted moved to your new group on Groups.io, he's free to go to the Yahoot group and delete it before the move.? Give him a drop-dead-deadline perhaps 30 days before you begin the move, and tell him that anything on the group after that date will be moved.? That puts the onus on him, not on you.
I have seen no sign of a political agenda on the part of Groups.io in hosting groups, but the question is not whether there is a political agenda but what he believes.? He seems convinced that there is such an agenda.? But he's out of step with the rest of your members, and he should be the one to remove any data he wishes not to have moved--doing that is not the responsibility of the owner or moderator of the group.
My groups were moved before premium service was required, and in our case nobody was automatically moved to a new group.? Instead, as a part of the Groups.io transfer process, each member was invited to join our new Groups.io group, giving those who objected for any reason the option of not becoming a member of the new group.? ?And, yes, we had a few who declined, mostly longtime inactive members.??
Bottom line:? make this his decision, not yours, by telling him to remove anything that he doesn't want moved.? That's more than fair IMHO.
Milt Baker
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
If I remember correctly when groups.io was new, this question came up. You don't have to remove quotes of his posts in other's posts. You may be able to put the responsibility on him to delete his own posts from the old or possibly the new group after the transfer. I don't see an easy way to sort or search for one member's posts and delete them. If you don't need the old group's posts you could just start the new group and close the old one to new posts, but I gather you have a reason to move the old posts to the new group. Donald On Sun, 19 May 2019 04:48:39 -0700, "Prasad via Groups.Io" <ad_prasad@...> wrote: Do we need to delete each and every such post that has any reference to him? That would be a herculean task and even if it is done, it would make us lose a big lot of useful archive data. ---------------------------------------------------- Join the Icom group, a general Icom (amateur radio) discussion group on Groups.io: /g/ICOM (recently launched, growing slowly) **also, a new self-help group dedicated to your cat's health: /g/CatVet (just launched)
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
I help moderate a group at Yahoo but our notice of intent to move had a very different tangent.
One of our users who posts several times a day suddenly noticed that their posts were sometimes not showing up for days. Also, when their posts finally became available in the timeline, not a single word could be found through "Search Conversations" whatsoever. Well, stand by, because you're probably not going to believe what I found.
After researching this extensively, I discovered that no post made after January 8th, 2019, has been indexed, meaning that no post since that date can be searched or will be included in any search results! And guess what? It's not just our group but every group that I could check! Check your own groups (if you're still on Yahoo) and see for yourself.
People who search for groups to join by way of "" or "Search Groups" will be presented with a list of groups and their "usage" statistics which is supposed to show the current number of members and the last activity. The problem is this is not being updated! No public group statistics for any group have been updated since January 12, 2019, but most show (as does our group) January 5, 2019! This means that groups may be getting bypassed because they appear dormant when they may actually be very active!
As there is absolutely zero support for Groups, I found that the only method of contacting anyone at Yahoo was by way of Yahoo Customer Care () on Twitter. However, all attempts to communicate this egregious dereliction of duty have only been met with, "Thank you for your patience while this is investigated." It is going on 2 months without any apparent change or remediation.
After researching further, I was incredulous to find that Yahoo management has been cut by almost two-thirds over the last 18 months. Then I found a? where Verizon CEO, Hans Vestberg, stated unequivocally that Yahoo will (now Oath) "need to survive on their merits." I think it is extremely interesting to note that the date of that article was January 8, 2019!
So, we told our users what we found and made what we feel is a very accurate prediction: "Groups maintenance is no longer being performed by Yahoo. It appears Yahoo Groups is severely underfunded and may not survive. As a result, we must move or one day the group could simply disappear without recourse. All of our data would simply be lost."
We have had zero complaints as a result. In fact, we received cheers for going the extra mile.
The only reason we haven't moved to Groups.IO already is because there is no current facility to move post attachments intact or at least referenced within the post. Extremely important, not just to us, but many groups, I would think. Mark Fletcher??!!
In the meantime, we are working to backup our data with , which will begin tomorrow for more than 91,000 posts, 300 MB of attachments and 30 MB of files. We think the total will be around 1.5 GB or so. We know that may not be a lot for some groups but we think it should still take about 15 days.
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On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 01:46 AM, Peter Cook wrote:
Isn't it the case that if you remove the message from the archives immediately then it will not make to anyone set to receive digests or summaries?
Eh??? All my Admin access uses is the Bars'More sub menu. Regards davew
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Re: Problem Changing to Groups.IO
Oops I sent a PM with my phn to Doug before reading to the bottom of this thread! I'm in New Zealand too and been dealing with lost Y* access. Drat.
Anyway, he can reply to me off list.
regards
davew ++
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Yes, we have already created the new group here and we have a plan to crowd fund to raise the money. We like the "Premium" level group and our plan is to maintain it at Premium level even after the first year. That answers one part.?
Now the second part which is tough. The particular member has now explained the reason for his objection. He says he is objecting because "owners/operators of groups.io had kept their political agenda out of their hosting business - I would have been fine with moving there...?They made their agenda public - and that's where _I_ have to draw a line....".?He says "You DO NOT have my permission to transfer/move, or to cause to be moved/transferred, any of my my personal information: including, but not necessarily limited to: my email addresses, Yahoo user names, and/or Yahoo account info to groups.io -- or to any other venue."
OK, it is clear that he is not on board. So he has to go. ?Before it can be done I have generally scanned the files and photos section and there are no files or photos posted by this member. But there are a huge number of ?posts ?that he started and also his replies to posts made by other members. Do we need to delete each and every such post that has any reference to him? That would be a herculean task and even if it is done, it would make us lose a big lot of useful archive data.?
I am confused..
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 02:31 AM, Prasad wrote:
Is there a solution here?
Not an easy one, I suspect. I would suggest that the person concerned be put on moderation immediately if he isn't already; that will stop any troublesome posts from him getting through. Have you asked him what his objection is to a migration to Groups.io? If not then I suggest that you do; it may be that he is objecting simply "because he can" and expects to manipulate the rest of the existing group to suit him; people like that do exist, unfortunately. Have other (existing group) members expressed any views for or against a move? What is the underlying "reason" for your group's existence; is it hobby - related or something of greater significance? Can the group manage without him? It may be that deleting him from the existing group before migrating is the best answer, althouth it would leave his historical posts in place. Getting rid of them could be extremely time - consuming. At bottom one thing that you cannot allow is for a single member to take the rest of a large group hostage. Chris
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Hi Prasad,
Yes what a sad case.
Point out the merits and reasons for the move being required for the benefits of all members.
What jurisdiction/ location is he in?
Then, as above, before the transfer is due to be made- terminate his membership (like the moderated/ banned list first)- I'm unsure how? GIO deals with these on import (IIRC they do not pick up any 'bouncing email addresses').
You can then archive any material that is not email text belonging to that person. And delete originals before transfer. As stated above, delete all posts/ email/ replies he might have made form the new group. Too bad if that destroys integrity, but you could point that out (before terminating) if he was a serious 'contributor'.
Personally, I have no use for such people in shared-open-network voluntary access public arenas.
Regards
davew
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Re: Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
Here is a solution.............
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If you want to move your group to groups IO then I would delete him from the Yahoo group and write to him telling him why.?Tell him that when the IO group is set up you will send him an invite or he can join by himself if he still wants to be added to the group. OR since you are probably going to have Groups IO do the transfer you will have to pay for 1?year Premium Service so?you can tell him once the transfer is made, you can add him yourself to the group if he'd like.
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Leeni | ?
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-------Original Message-------
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Date: 5/18/2019 9:25:54 PM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
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I have one ... leave him where he is ....... then delete the old group. You can¡¯t force anyone to move to another group.
Ellen
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From: Prasad via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2019 9:12 PM
Subject: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo, member has serious objections, how to handle
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I am working to move a Yahoo group with almost 9800 members and I have some members taking serious objections. One has posted that he "_do not_ authorize anyone to transfer any of my personal information, or any of my yahoo account related information, to groups.io. " His words in quote marks.
Is there a solution here?
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Shal Farley
KWKloeber
Tim Mitchell
Duane
Milt Baker
Jim Wilson