GroupManagersForum@groups.io

Re: Suspicious file attachment in pending messages section #spam

Yes, it is in the unapproved messages, however it is from an influential but obscure local public agency with the signature of a high-level staff member so I don't want to delete.? Is there no way to check?? Would it even get on groups.io servers if it had a virus?? I thought they also checked.?

How does a new INVITED member set a password?

#16309

I've been searching through the archives here, but not finding a real answer yet. Our group transferred here a short while ago, with all the existing members, and I haven't invited many new people yet. But today I invited someone and they say

"When I go to log in, it asks me to sign up, or log in if I am already a member. I believe I am so I went to log in. There it asked for my email and password. I have not had any opportunity to create or enter a password.

Help!"
?I'm not quite sure how to advise them.
They show up as a member to me, when I check the members list. So it's obviously worked that far...
?What now?
?? Thanks, vandy

Re: Tweaking the message footers for one's group . . .

#16308

Rob,

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Just thinking out loud, that may be a good place to put the hashtags for the group.

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That could get burdensome, unless you keep a tight rein on how many hashtags your group has.

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I have been having a hard time figuring out how to communicate that.? ?

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Maybe a reminder, with a link to the Hashtags page?

/g/GroupManagersForum/hashtags

(using the address of your group rather than GMF, of course)

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Does the new header section appear above or below the one we can't change?

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In the middle of. See GMF's wiki page about footers for examples.

?

Shal

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Re: Suspicious file attachment in pending messages section #spam

#16307

Rob,

I just received a post from a seldom-used group with an attachment that looks suspicious.

Do you mean a Message Approval Needed notification?

There is no file description and the message just asked people to look at the attached summary and even the title of the post is a little strange.

That hits my "don't touch that" buttons. Particularly given the implication that you don't know the sender well and were not expecting a message of that sort.

Is your group set to allow posts from non-subscribers?

However, there is a signature on the message from an obscure government agency that seems authentic and is the exact kind of person I am trying to attract to this community, so if it is a virus someone went to some effort to create the message.??

The bad guys are often very clever. They'll start with a copy of a legit communication (from an agency or company) to make their message look legit.

Is there a way to check this file?? It is sitting unapproved on Groups.io servers and I am afraid to download it and of course, I don't want to approve and send to everybody.? Any suggestions?

I would trust your suspicions and delete the pending message without downloading the attachment. I probably wouldn't even bother attempting to contact the sender - anyone sending me an attached file in their first communication with me is probably up to no good.

Shal

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Re: Tweaking the message footers for one's group . . .

#16306

Just thinking out loud, that may be a good place to put the hashtags for the group.? I have been having a hard time figuring out how to communicate that.? ?Does the new header section appear above or below the one we can't change?

Suspicious file attachment in pending messages section #spam

#16305

I just received a post from a seldom-used group with an attachment that looks suspicious.? ?There is no file description and the message just asked people to look at the attached summary and even the title of the post is a little strange.? However, there is a signature on the message from an obscure government agency that seems authentic and is the exact kind of person I am trying to attract to this community, so if it is a virus someone went to some effort to create the message.??

Is there a way to check this file?? It is sitting unapproved on Groups.io servers and I am afraid to download it and of course, I don't want to approve and send to everybody.? Any suggestions?

Rob

Re: emails to group instead of sender #issue

#16304
Edited

Ouch.

If I had a nightmare based on this topic (and the many like it) it would be this:

Particularly that first setting: how to annoy everyone you know.

And just for the record:

Shal
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Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

Brian Vogel

#16303

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 07:08 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

Was it the location of the control (the need to open the member's page from the Members list)? Or the purpose of the Role option on that page?

Both of the above, as well as "in what order would one need to do this to effect a transfer" (though I can figure this out).

Instructions such as:

1.? Under the current owner's account, go to Admin->Members and search for the account to which you wish to grant a role (owner, moderator) or specific privilege and open the account profile.

2. For the Role dropdown, open it and chose the role you are assigning to that member.? For ownership transfer, or adding a co-owner, that would be Owner.

3. Review any other profile settings and set those you wish to.? Afterward, be certain to hit the Save button at the bottom of the page.

4. If ownership is being transferred, go to your own account profile and chose the Role you wish to take on other than Owner.? Once this choice has been made, hit the Save button.? After hitting the Save button, you only have the privileges associated with the Role you chose.? You cannot change yourself back to Owner unless your choice of role was Moderator, and the Moderator role has the Set Moderator Privileges attribute associated with it.

. . . make everything crystal clear as far as I'm concerned from start to finish and covering the most common switches in Role.
?
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? ? ?Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~ George Santayana

Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

#16302

Brian,

Let's not get into semantic hair splitting.? What is under discussion is FORMAL documentation, the lack thereof, and the patchwork nature of what is available for Groups.io, ...

I'm not trying to split hairs, I simply don't understand what you mean by "patchwork nature". As far as I'm aware the entirety of the formal documentation for Groups.io exists on one page, the Help page.

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it's a bad situation all around.

That's true, and I'm certainly not going to defend the status quo as being adequate. I think I was pretty clear in agreeing with you that Groups.io's decision to create something they're willing to call a manual is A Good Thing.

But, back to your original point at the start of your message.? I can assure you, in my case, it wasn't the terminology that was confusing.? I know that a group can have multiple owners and moderators and that as far as ownership goes it can be reassigned, broadened, or removed.? ?It is just in no way intuitively obvious how to do it.

I'll simply take your word on that. My prior experience with Yahoo Groups makes it impossible for me to see Groups.io's pages through the eyes of someone not steeped in that background.

I am curious what initially eluded you. Was it the location of the control (the need to open the member's page from the Members list)? Or the purpose of the Role option on that page? Or something else? I'm not asking to pick at you, but for my understanding (and possible wiki explanation).

Shal

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Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

Brian Vogel

#16301

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 02:21 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

I disagree. It may not be a reasonable substitute for formal documentation, but the world isn't reasonable (resources are always constrained) so crowd-sourced documentation, informal though it may be, is both a reasonable and logical accommodation to that reality.

Shal,

? ? ? ? ? ? Let's not get into semantic hair splitting.? What is under discussion is FORMAL documentation, the lack thereof, and the patchwork nature of what is available for Groups.io, it's a bad situation all around.? It's not even something that can be called formal documentation due to its fragmentation and "lack of index" for the neophyte to even navigate to the correct place.

? ? ? ? ? ? And that's no reflection on the quality of information once one finds it or is directed to it.? The huge problem is the decentralized, fragmented arrangement of the available information.

? ? ? ? ? ? But, back to your original point at the start of your message.? I can assure you, in my case, it wasn't the terminology that was confusing.? I know that a group can have multiple owners and moderators and that as far as ownership goes it can be reassigned, broadened, or removed.? ?It is just in no way intuitively obvious how to do it.? And I have said, repeatedly, that for any complex system the very concept that most things are or can be "intuitively obvious" is fraught.? Decades as a developer taught me that what is "intuitively obvious" to one person may be entirely opaque to another, even when said individuals do not have completely divergent skill sets or professional (or avocational) experience.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? That's why formal documentation is necessary, and best written such that it's an "area by area/function by function" reference where, to the maximum extent possible, those functions are discussed in an encapsulated manner where you don't have to read thirty additional sections unless that's really necessary.? This is much like the documentation (at least the electronic version) for tearing down a laptop.? ?Most of the steps give direct reference to the detailed step-by-step instructions that one can click through to if one is utterly unfamiliar.? Otherwise, that sometimes complex set of steps can be expressed as a single phrase for those who already know how to do it.
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? ? ?Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~ George Santayana

Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

#16300

Terry, here's a screenshot that I hope will help.? Take a look, and let us know if any questions.

Jonathan B.??

Change a member to an owner.jpg

Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

#16299

Brian,

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While the actions may be simple, finding them is not, or it sure is *&%$ not for me, and I'm a "digger."?

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Perhaps part of the problem you and others have had was that the semantics of "changing the owner" or "transferring ownership" puts one on the wrong foot for spotting the capability. There isn't a "the" owner, nor is there a single function to "transfer" the role from one person to another. There is just the Role option in each member's page (from the Members list).

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You're not the first and undoubtedly won't be the last to have missed that function. Moderators coming in from Yahoo Groups tend to see it as "obvious" because that system has the very same Role mechanism, but that doesn't mean that it is obvious..

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I'm not entirely certain how to improve matters, in this case or in the more general case of? a mismatch between a user's mental model and the system's design. Such mismatches are a common impediment to discoverability, in both the live system and the formal documentation. It is difficult for a developer or a tech writer to even imagine the set of all users' initial (naive, in the non-derogatory sense) mental models.

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As a point solution to this question, it sounds like the Member Management subheading in GMF's wiki could use an item named "Change or Transfer Ownership", together with a backing page.

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Having to run around to various group wikis, including the one for this on, is no reasonable or logical way to create formal documentation.?

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I disagree. It may not be a reasonable substitute for formal documentation, but the world isn't reasonable (resources are always constrained) so crowd-sourced documentation, informal though it may be, is both a reasonable and logical accommodation to that reality.

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I'm glad that Mark is finally getting to the stage where he thinks things are stable enough, and the service mature enough, to do what mature services do.

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Agreed. I'm eager to see how, and how soon, this unfolds.

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I've no idea what form the new manual will take (presumably not the traditional paper-bound tome), but I expect that GMF's wiki will continue to be a valuable resource, even as some of its content is replaced by citations to the new primary source material.

?

Shal

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Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

Brian Vogel

#16298

Bruce,

? ? ? ? ? ? The only argument I have with what you said is characterizing Groups.io as being in beta testing in any sense of that word that was ever used in my decades as a developer.? ?This platform has been stable, very stable, for quite a while now and additional feature requests being added, sometimes rapidly.? That does not make the whole enterprise "beta" by any means.

? ? ? ? ? ? ?I also doubt that the beta group name will ever change.? ?It, like so many other things in this world, will become an anachronism that remains because those that use it know it's history and name.

? ? ? ? ? ? ?The beta group is the last thing I'd use in determining whether or not a given piece of software such as Groups.io is actually in beta testing.? It isn't (at least not as a whole).

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? ? ?Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~ George Santayana

Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

#16297

I think Mark would be the first to admit that groups.io site documentation has failed to keep pace with feature development. This is largely because the entire groups.io site is still in the beta phase...that's why we still have a "beta group." Those of us who rely on groups.io for day-to-day use too easily lose sight of that.

I'm hoping that as both site documentation and the groups.io app near completion, we will exit the beta phase and things will subsequently be rolled out in a more coordinated (if slower) fashion. Meanwhile, we are indebted to those who have taken their own time and energy to create and maintain GMF wiki entries. I'm sure those will be a valuable resource for the technical writer, at least initially.

Regards,
Bruce
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Re: Locking a topic by e-mail: Is this possible?

#16296

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:21 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

This makes me wonder whether a group owner or moderator can lock a topic via e-mail.?

This functionality does not currently exist.?

Regards,
Bruce
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Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

Brian Vogel

#16295

Duane,

? ? ? ? ? While the actions may be simple, finding them is not, or it sure is *&%$ not for me, and I'm a "digger."? Having to run around to various group wikis, including the one for this on, is no reasonable or logical way to create formal documentation.? I'm glad that Mark is finally getting to the stage where he thinks things are stable enough, and the service mature enough, to do what mature services do.

? ? ? ? ? Basics of administration are, and should be, a fundamental part of the formal documentation for a venue such as Groups.io.? ?Detailed information about arcana of administration must be included, since no one tends to remember these, even the person who invented the system.

--

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? ? ?Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~ George Santayana

Re: Retrieving deleted photos

#16294

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:33 AM, Nancy C wrote:

there is no magic way to retreive them

Correct.? As insurance, you could Export Group Data from the Settings page now and then, including photos.? (Or you could just get the photos.)? It would be a bit of work to reassign the album and photos to the correct owner after putting them back.

Duane
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Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

#16293

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:26 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

how one transfers ownership

It's also touched on in the Roles section of /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Status-Badges-in-the-Members-List? It seems super simple, so maybe that's why there's not more documentation.? If I want to transfer ownership to you, I make you an owner, then demote myself to member (or leave the group.)

Duane
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Retrieving deleted photos

#16292

Hi everyone.?

This is morning I mistakenly deleted a member album when working off an iPhone.?

I believe the only course of action is to reload all the photos and that there is no magic way to retreive them.?

Am I missing info on this?

Many thanks

Nancy C
ECIR Group Mod

Re: Changing group owners #groupowner #howto

#16291

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Am I safe in presuming this works "in reverse" too?? ?That is, once one has been named owner of a group, you can take away owner from the existing owner?

Yes, an owner has full privileges and can use any function.? There may be as many owners as you want, as well as moderators.? Personally, I wouldn't want more than 2 or 3 owners (or mods with the ability to set Mod Priv) due to the possibility of a 'turf war', but can understand having the capability as on Shalstest that's used to test/verify things.

Duane
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