开云体育

Hi all,

This week's change log:


Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

NEW: When attempting to change your email address to an address that
already has an account, and that isn't just subscribed to updates@,
we now offer the ability to merge the two accounts automatically. An
email is sent to the to account and that account has to accept it.

Awesome. This should be of great help to any member who's moved across from Y!Groups as a member of more than one group, using different addresses in those groups. This will allow the member to consolidate their Groups.io subscriptions under a single address.

There still remains a need for a means to allow one to manage subscriptions under different email addresses from within a single login. Currently one must still log out and in (or use separate browser sessions) to access web pages for memberships held under different subscription addresses.

NEW: From the directory, you can send an email to another member.
Limited to 2 per day to a specific person, 10 per day total per
group.

Very nice. Groups that don't want to allow this can (and probably already had) make the Directory inaccessible to members. Note that the limits amount to limits on initiating contact - the message you send will be "From" your email address so that person and you can carry on your conversation off-list.

NEW: We now keep and display the response from the email server on
successful deliveries, in the Email Delivery History pages.

Interesting. I'll have to watch for circumstances in which that can be useful information. Beyond simple curiosity.

CHANGE: The group home page month view now takes into account a user's
timezone.

Ah, good. That does mean that different members may see slightly different tables, but at least the search links will work correctly. Marcelo and Wim van Dam take note.
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/5373
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6789

CHANGE: Allow padding-left style, to fix indented HTML.

Ah, good. That was bugging me in formatting wiki pages: paragraphs I indented would lose their indentation when I saved the page.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

BUGFIX: When editing a poll, the message that gets sent out now starts
"A poll has been updated"....
BUGFIX: Plain text messages had emails obscured even when the group
was set to show them.
BUGFIX: Fix page back in group directory.
BUGFIX: Honor group aliases when processing emails.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Paul,

When an IO group Email is put into one's spam folder is only one
message sent back to IO or does the offending Email cause repeated
messages to be sent as long as the Email stays in the spam folder?

I'm not on the inside of this issue - I've never seen an FBL report - but my current belief is that being delivered to the Spam folder does not itself trigger an FBL report, it is when the message is deleted from that folder (having not been previously marked as "not Spam") that the report is generated.

On the other hand, if the message was delivered to the member's Inbox, and the member him/herself marked it as Spam, that would cause the report immediately (and probably not again later).

So only once. I think.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Chris,

Ahhh... So the "Notifications..." should more correctly read /A
message that had been marked as spam was deleled..

But only if I'm correct about that.

I described the situation as a "time bomb" in a post on beta. I hope that Mark would have corrected me on that point had I got it wrong, but possibly that comment got lost in the larger issue and was left to stand without comment.


Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Shal,

When an IO group Email is put into one's spam folder is only one message sent back to IO or does the offending Email cause repeated messages to be sent as long as the Email stays in the spam folder?

Paul

Sharon,

To the right of the Search button is another button that brings up a date range filter. In some cases, that could be helpful in reducing the number of hits.
?
--?
Gerald Boutin

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:23 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

The observation was for a message allowed to linger in an AOL member's Spam folder until it was automatically deleted by the system. If I recall correctly that was 30 days.

It would also be the case if the member chose to empty the Spam folder or to delete that specific message while still in the Spam folder.

Ahhh... So the "Notifications..." should more correctly read A message that had been marked as spam was deleled..

I don't think I'll suggest a further change to the notification! I must, however, remember to remove my glasses before repeatedly bashing my head on the desk / keyboard in frustration at the "secret rules" applied by email providers.

Chris

Bruce, you are right - you can get to the edit screen from there, but just for that one group.
The other way brings me to all my subscribed groups.
So folks, depends on how many subscriptions you have or want to check!

Frances

Chris,

To me that implies that there is a finite time lag between 1 and 2
occurring; is that actually the case?

The observation was for a message allowed to linger in an AOL member's Spam folder until it was automatically deleted by the system. If I recall correctly that was 30 days.

It would also be the case if the member chose to empty the Spam folder or to delete that specific message while still in the Spam folder.

If it is then it's a fair bet that the lag differs between different
service providers.

Quite likely.

And if it is really the case what (typically) is the lag?

I don't know what's typical, Gmail automatically deletes from Spam messages older than 30 days.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Chris,

I use Outlook and I would expect that putting the sender's address in
/that/ Contacts section would achieve precisely nothing.

Those of us who use email clients have our own layer of interpretation to deal with in all such instructions. A filter in your client would also likely be ineffective.

I say "likely" because IMAP does (I think) provide the possibility that a filter rule in the client can move messages between server folders, including the server's Spam folder.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:53 am, Shal Farley wrote:

The controversial situations come about when an email service decides to send such a report based on 1) their own decision to deliver the message to the member's Spam folder and 2) the subsequent failure of the member to mark the message as "Not Spam".

To me that implies that there is a finite time lag between 1 and 2 occurring; is that actually the case? If it is then it's a fair bet that the lag differs between different service providers. And if it is really the case what (typically) is the lag?

I think I have been working on the assumption that the SP's feedback notification was more or less immediate following the spam label being applied. If it isn't then another variable has entered the equation.

Chris

Chris,

The problem reduces to "/how do we manage those whose email provider
decides that an email incoming from Groups.io is spam/". Nothing more,
and nothing less.

Actually, something more is required. That email service must subsequently decide to send an FBL report to Groups.io that cites the message or member.

The controversial situations come about when an email service decides to send such a report based on 1) their own decision to deliver the message to the member's Spam folder and 2) the subsequent failure of the member to mark the message as "Not Spam".

So in that sense, a member's management of their email folders - specifically their Spam folder - is relevant to this conversation. One way a member can avoid being unsubscribed for spam is to be vigilant about periodically inspecting their Spam folder and marking as "Not Spam" any group message.

Another way is for the member to choose an email service that doesn't do this.

I am seeking a solution for those who find themselves faced with a
problem they didn't even know could arise.

Which is pretty much every member who uses such an email service, apart from those few who've been following along here and/or in beta. Or have been informed by a pro-active group manager.

I should admit to a caveat on condition (2) above: that's based on reports from some people I consider reliable observers and was specifically in reference to AOL. I don't know for a fact that there aren't any email services that rely on condition (1) alone. My sense is that if that were the case we'd have a much larger incidence of these unsubscriptions from those specific email services than we apparently do.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 10:51 am, Shal Farley wrote:

Which ties in nicely with your theme that there are many simple but wrong solutions

Another one - possibly not relevant here - is the "To be certain of receiving emails from us put our address in your Contacts List", or words to that effect. I daresay it would work if I (for example) put that address in my Servicer Provider's email contact list, but I don't use my SP's email interface; I use Outlook and I would expect that putting the sender's address in that Contacts section would achieve precisely nothing.?

Grrr...

Chris

Is there a list and description of search operators that can be used in groups.io?

We have one list that has a huge archive now and simple searches return too many messages.

If the operators are standard, is there a list elsewhere?

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines
[email protected]

We haven't changed anything.? Everyone here is a user, just like you.? I don't see anything in any of the recent changelogs that might have caused a change and it doesn't look like there have been any changes to this group's settings.? Your best bet is to supply all the details you can in a message to support.

Duane
--
Help: /static/help
GMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Search button at the top of Messages list
A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 08:59 am, Bill Hickey wrote:

While initially I thought the "nomail" option was a nice compromise, I think forcing the user to RTFM (Read The F'ing Manual) and keep his/her own house in order is actually the better solution, even if it means that some of your subscribers will leave in frustration.

Bob; a lot, or even a great deal, of what you said was probably perfectly true, but very little of it applies to the problem that we are trying to address. I don't doubt for a moment that some people don't spend enough time "managing" their email service, but those people are not the problem. Neither, for that matter, are "bouncing" emails.

The problem reduces to "how do we manage those whose email provider decides that an email incoming from Groups.io is spam". Nothing more, and nothing less. If members / email users can't keep their own houses in order, then that's their look out; fair enough. But it is not those who are at the centre of this; anyone can have an email marked as spam by their email provider, and as things were the messages sent out by Groups.io were not entirely helpful. That has improved, but a further improvement in that messaging is hoped for and has been requested.

The outstanding question now is whether the current policy of unsubscribing those affected* might be better with one of putting them on "no email". You argued You set them to "nomail" and YOU DON'T KNOW for sure WHY they're on "nomail", but that is not true. The Activity Log makes a clear distinction between those who "leave" and those who are "dismissed". (FWIW I have just double - checked) If the Activity Log had an entry so - and - so was set to No email because a message to them was marked as spam as an alternative to summary dismissal then it would be patently obvious why the individual concerned was set to "no email".

I have no solution for those who because of indifference, carelessness, or sheer stupidity mismanage their email account. Neither am I seeking one. I am seeking a solution for those who find themselves faced with a problem they didn't even know could arise.

* Which is email - provider dependent, based on the existence of a feedback loop.

Chris

Bill,

SOMETIMES the reason people's email bounces is that they died, ...

Note that this topic isn't about messages being rejected ("bounced") by the member's email service. That's handled through the bounce handling mechanism.
/static/help#bouncing

This topic is about what happens after a member's email service sends a report to Groups.io that the member has marked a group message as spam.

Some email services (including Yahoo Mail) even advise marking a message as Spam as an alternative to unsubscribing from a list. Which ties in nicely with your theme that there are many simple but wrong solutions.

I think Groups.io's response would not be controversial at all, except that certain email service issue such reports even when the receiving member took no such action, but merely failed to mark as "Not Spam" a group message that the service itself delivered to the member's Spam folder.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Richard,

But it seems like Groups.io should send a reply to ALL when REPLY TO
GROUP is enabled.

The Reply To option for the group can be set to either "Group" or "Group and Sender". In either case Groups.io puts the correct thing in the "Reply-To" header field of outbound messages: just the group posting address for "Group", or both the group posting address and the posting member's address for "Group and Sender".

The issue, for some members, is whether their email interface obeys the header field (which is a standard header field, and so ought to be used), and/or whether its default behavior is to reply solely to the sending address or to sender plus all recipient addresses.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Yes, they bot exist in W10 but, why not use an attachment instead of using TXT only.
Arno,
I am not using txt. And I explained in this subject already, why we do not want attachments.
Victoria

---

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 08:58 am, toki wrote:

BTInternet is a complex issue.

BT handles email inhouse for some of their subscribers.

Are you certain about that? I thought that CPCloud was their other option, but I am willing to be wrong about it.

Looking again at your comment above...BTInternet email is a complex issue. There; FTFY.

Chris

I saw you made some changes in html. I now am not getting html the way I was in incredimail.
I was wondering what can be done? It is coming out very dark and without images.

My group really likes to send html in stationary etc.

I will test a few more but this could be a problem for my group. It was working great until today.?

Anita

[subject modified by moderator. Was "html"]