开云体育

I'm seeing it on my Group's page whenever I'm starting or replying to a post. There isn't a problem with lag in any other way on my computer on any other site. As a matter of fact, as I got to the second sentence in this reply, the lag started up again.

Scott

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 08:00 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

The only bug" in useful software is as unlikely as
"the only ant" in your kitchen.

Shal,

I am well aware of that fact.

My point here - which started out as an aside, and which I never intended to get into until you first asked me for specifics (and then denied their existence) is that this editor is very buggy. In my opinion it is much worse by any measure than the old one.?

Have ?good evening.

J?

J,

And it's not the only bug.

Nope. There's at least the line break question, which I haven't reproduced yet.

"The only bug" in useful software is as unlikely as
"the only ant" in your kitchen.

Shal
Silly Simile Society

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 07:23 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

But the fact is that it fails to work as expected on its own
internally created text is a bug by my definition.

Absolutely.

?And it's not the only bug.?
J

And the icon's hover description is "blockquote." Here is a definition of blockquote:

In HTML and XHTML, the?blockquote?element defines "a section [within a document] that is quoted from another source". The syntax is <blockquote><p>blockquoted text goes here</p></blockquote> . The?blockquote?element is used to indicate the quotation of a large section of text from another source.

J,

Its icon is a quotation mark. It's not "indent text." It is
specifically INTENDED to create quotations!

Yes, it creates the HTML code for a blockquote. That was never in question.

But the fact is that it fails to work as expected on its own
internally created text is a bug by my definition.

Absolutely.

But until your last message I hadn't figured out how to reproduce it. That's why I was describing the difference between what you were doing and what I had done. Also, my way provides you a work-around until it gets fixed.

I've sent my observations into Mark at the support address. Hopefully that will assist him in fixing it.

I think what happened is that the code that inserts a quote automatically when you select part of the original message and then click reply (and also the Quote Whole Post function) has some code leftover from the prior editor that is tripping up the new editor.

Shal

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 05:34 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

I've never been trying to copy and paste additional material from the original message.

Its icon is a quotation mark. It's not "indent text." It is specifically INTENDED to create quotations! It may or may not fail to work as expected on text quoted *from elsewhere*, for various reasons including, as you mentioned, possible formatting coming from elsewhere. But the fact is that it fails to work as expected on its own internally created text is a bug by my definition.

J

J,

It works for the first instance (the case of selecting and copying text makes it appear automatically, and indented, at the top of the response, as it did here), but nowhere afterwards without all kinds of futzing around.

Ok, thanks for saying that. Now I see the problem. I hadn't ever selected part of the original message before clicking Reply. I'd always clicked Reply then Quote Whole Post.

The result differs in one significant way: I've never been trying to copy and paste additional material from the original message. That means I (generally) don't need to use the Blockquote button within a message.

the quick brown fox

Nope. But not fair since that was a quote.

jumped over the lazy dog

The quick brown fox
jumps over the lazy dog.

Still no.

the quick brown fox
jumped over the lazy dog

takes TWO clicks on the return key.

Not sure what's going on there, but not my experience.

I did see one thing that will probably help Mark, if he can fix it: the message body typed by the user gets surrounded by a paragraph element. The whole body, with all of its lines and paragraphs within it. But not the top-posted quote, if any. I think that surrounding paragraph element is what causes the Blockquote button to quote the whole message body.

Shal

Dano,

You should be more specific when you refer to word processors.

Duly noted.

I'll have to confess that the vast majority of my experience with word processors has been MS Word. With a smattering of LibreOffice (which is an MS-office work-alike, so that's not really different). And back in the dim ages some desktop publishing software such as Ventura Publisher (later Corel Ventura).

Shal

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 04:25 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

here you're working with quoted material (my text).

Shal,

My whole issue is the fact that I can't block QUOTE (emphasis on quote) from the previous message in order to answer it. (Note the "quotation" mark sign in the editor toolbar LOL.:) It works for the first instance (the case of selecting and copying text makes it appear automatically, and indented, at the top of the response, as it did here), but nowhere afterwards without all kinds of futzing around.

Re having to hit enter twice, I'm saying you have to hit enter twice even to create two lines from one. From?

the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

to

the quick brown fox
jumped over the lazy dog

takes TWO clicks on the return key.

I think I'm out of this conversation, at least for now. It's getting too convoluted and everyone involved (you, me, Mark) is using a different browser. So who knows what's going on. I've put all the time into this that I can afford to at this point.

J

Where else but in a word processor does a single Enter cause a
paragraph break? I've run into a few, but far and away most ordinary
text entry forms I've used treat Enter as a line break.

Shal

You should be more specific when you refer to word processors. In WordPerfect, Enter gives a simple line break. That people use Word as a standard is just a sad situation caused years ago by deception on the part of M$ to sell their own second class software and push out competitors. YMMV.

Dano

J,

Yes, all of those behave as expected. You don't have to hit "return"
twice to get a blank line displayed, period.

Intriguing. In that case I don't think I know what you mean by hitting return twice.

My mental picture: starting with an empty box, type "ABC[Enter]123". The result I expect is:

ABC
123

With no blank line between. To get a blank line (paragraph break) between them I'd have to hit Enter twice.

Everywhere but in a word processor; and there it isn't really a blank line, it is a paragraph separation with whatever vertical spacing is specified by your paragraph styles.

No, it's not already fixed or it wouldn't have done it to me again
just now, even despite trying to insert blank lines.

Hm, but here you're working with quoted material (my text). And yes I've had trouble in that circumstance. But starting with a blank page and just typing one's own text it seems better behaved. I haven't done much testing with quoted material.

Shal

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 02:51 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

How about any software or web site other than a word processor?
Say Gmail.
Say Yahoo Mail.
Say Thunderbird.
Say Yahoo Groups.

Yes, all of those behave as expected. You don't have to hit "return" twice to get a blank line displayed, period. Using firefox or safari. I don't know why you are having a different experience.?

I didn't need to do that in my test earlier or just now. Maybe it is already fixed?

No, it's not already fixed or it wouldn't have done it to me again just now, even despite trying to insert blank lines. You can see what happened here. It quoted my entire message. Also, if Mark had already fixed it he would have communicated that to me instead of just giving me the workaround (which even now does not seem to be working).

Don't get me wrong. I had no love for the former editor. ?But this one is worse.

J

J,

I'm not referring to quoted matter, and after reporting this bug to
Mark, he confirmed it and gave me the workaround (insert blank lines
around the text).

Interesting. I didn't need to do that in my test earlier or just now. Maybe it is already fixed?

Line 1
Line 2
Line 3

Put the cursor in line 2 (or select that whole line) and click Blockquote. I get:

Line 1

Line 2

Line 3

And I do NOT expect to have to hit "return" twice to get a blank
line! As you pointed out, this is the opposite of what word
processors do (Typewriter? Are you kidding?

How about any software or web site other than a word processor?
Say Gmail.
Say Yahoo Mail.
Say Thunderbird.
Say Yahoo Groups.

Where else but in a word processor does a single Enter cause a paragraph break? I've run into a few, but far and away most ordinary text entry forms I've used treat Enter as a line break.

Shal

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 01:32 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

I'm not having that problem with text I entered, but it definitely has issues with text that came from elsewhere (quoted matter) ....There's no accounting for taste. ;-)

I'm not referring to quoted matter, and after reporting this bug to Mark, he confirmed it and gave me the workaround (insert blank lines around the text). And I do NOT expect to have to hit "return" twice to get a blank line! As you pointed out, this is the opposite of what word processors do (Typewriter? Are you kidding? Yes, I suppose there IS no accounting for taste.:) And yes, I'm on safari when this happens. I haven't tried yet using firefox. Mark said he was using chrome.

J

In #1838 J_Catlady wrote:

Shal, that issue with the Enter key causes problems elsewhere. For
example, you can't block quote without block quoting the entire draft
unless the place where you want to insert the text has a blank line
before and after it.

I'm not having that problem with text I entered, but it definitely has issues with text that came from elsewhere (quoted matter). It seems that if the original material used HTML paragraph tags then this editor tends to put newlines inside the paragraphs rather than between them. And then the blockquote applies to the entire span of the paragraph.

Another thing it does is it tends to eat single newlines.

Taking a three-line
paragraph and crunching
it into one line.

If you select the center line, or have the cursor in the center line, then Blockquote will make just that line a quote - as expected. But...

If you select all three of those lines and click Blockquote you get:

Taking a three-lineparagraph and crunchingit into one line.

Re-wrapping it is surprising; omitting the whitespace is just wrong.

And to insert the blank line, you actually have to hit "return"
twice, not once.

That, to me, is the desired and expected behavior. I want Enter to work in the more typewriter fashion. A line break, not a paragraph break. I recognize that this is the opposite of what word processors like Word do.

The normal "undo edit" key in a browser doesn't work, and you instead
have to click on the advanced toolbar and use the "undo" arrow from
there.

I haven't run into that problem. Ctrl+Z has always worked fine for me. In Firefox. Maybe it is a browser issue.

There's an issue with fonts that I haven't been able to isolate yet.

Mark may have fixed that today, if it is the same issue. I'd noticed that font selection would show in the editor, and in the message sent by email, but not on site.

I would switch back to the old editor in a heartbeat.

There's no accounting for taste. ;-)

Shal

Shal, that issue with the Enter key causes problems elsewhere. For example, you can't block quote without block quoting the entire draft unless the place where you want to insert the text has a blank line before and after it. And to insert the blank line, you actually have to hit "return" twice, not once. The normal "undo edit" key in a browser doesn't work, and you instead have to click on the advanced toolbar and use the "undo" arrow from there. There's an issue with fonts that I haven't been able to isolate yet. And probably more. I would switch back to the old editor in a heartbeat.

I'll try to find time to add these to the wiki, or you can feel free to do it.

J

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:05 am, Douglas Swearingen wrote:

The only place I am having this problem is typing to send an email through Groups.io.

But it happens when you are typing an email, not when you are on the groups.io site? It's implausible that your email program recognizes that you are planning to send a message to groups.io and screws up while you're typing then and only then, and not with all your emails. Is that what you're saying? ?

J

J,

p.s. I do wonder if it's a problem with the new editor, which I find very user-unfriendly and weird in general, if not downright buggy.

If you can describe a weirdness or quirk please add it to GMF's wiki page Message composition tips and tricks.

Myself I'm much happier with the new editor.? A large part of that is because the Enter key is now a single line break rather than a paragraph break. But I also like the advanced toolbar and the ability to set fonts separately from format.

Has anyone seen this problem before the new editor went live?

I haven't noticed it in the new editor or old. But I don't often compose on site so if there is a time-of-day factor I might not be hitting "rush hour". Too, I have a pretty fast cable-modem connection so if round-trip time is a factor I'll probably not notice that either.

Shal