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Bruce et al;

I was once the Owner of the TentecEagle group.?? I elected to retire and turn the ownership over to another person.? Most recently,? I needed to search the Messages for some information and found that as a non-member, I can't do that.? I subscribed and received a message to "reply to this message to confirm membership".? I did that and my membership is still pending.?

My efforts raised the attention of others who find themselves in the same situation.??? For me, it makes no difference who is Owner or Moderator.? I just would like for them to do their job.? From my recent experience and that of others, seems there is no one alive to further the group membership.? Surely there has to be some way to salvage the messages, data, files and such for a group.??

It seems that the owner, Gary K0DVN, has locked the group.?? My research indicates the owner, Gary K0DVN, is deceased and his ham radio call/license was taken over by a relative, according to FCC records.?? And I find that relative is now deceased as found in the Houston TX obituaries.?? Valid documentation in my thinking.

If there was a way to download the member roster, messages, and files, I would be most glad to start a group of similar name with the history of the original group.? I've yet to get the attention of the administration of the parent? Groups.IO.??? I have tried to locate Mark Fletcher and know the site is hosted in? Portola Valley, CA.

I am still trying to salvage the TentecEagle group that has a membership of 403 members, 6273 Topics.

I'm just hoping for help or assistance to make this happen.

Thanks in advance

73

Bob, K4TAX

• 
  

The problem here is that Bob has no official capacity within the group. He isn't even a member. While his claims are likely to be true, there's no way to corroborate that independently. Evidence can be faked, and even "voting the current owner off the island" by polling existing members has its problems. Thus support's hands are tied.?

The group owner owns the group, not the members. He should be able to run it as he sees fit. If he wants it to wither from neglect, that's his right. If when he dies, he wants it to die with him, that's his right, too. He should not be subject to ouster by those who think they know how to do things better, even if it's just from a misunderstanding. If that happens even once, that's once too many.??

This question has come up over and over and that's why it's in the FAQ. If you think it might become a problem, do something about it now. You cannot buy life insurance after you're already dead.

Regards,
Bruce

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Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 05:57 AM, Duane wrote:

As I see it, the PROBLEM is that owners won't use the existing solutions or aren't aware that they can privately pass on ownership when they die.? Of all people, I learned about digital estates from my non-techy ex-wife! ;>)

Duane: Thank you (and your ex) for bringing this to our attention. It has? important implications and applications above and beyond the question of Groups.io Owner succession. Still, the PROBLEM, as you point out, is the necessity of doing something now, whether it is empowering a backup Owner or doing some digital estate planning. It seems obvious to me that the person to whom you would entrust your digital estate in the future is also trustworthy enough to be added as an Owner right now.

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Robert R.

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 11:32 AM, Pete Cook wrote:

In my case I have two very trusted co-owners and we share moderator responsibilities.

On this group, GMF, there are currently 3 owners, Shal (founder), David, and me.? We've never met since we're in different parts of the world and only know each other from the group, but we don't seem to have any problems.? When I'm unsure of how to handle something, I try to contact Shal (who's been busy with life), but sometimes have to make decisions on my own.? If I make a mistake, I take it to heart and learn from it.? We often confer with the mods if/when a situation arises that may need to be addressed, including adding more moderators.

Duane
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This issue has been discussed, and technical solutions proposed, many many many many times. My take on Frances' post is that given the way things are NOW, each of us needs to decide how important the continuation of the group is if we're unable to continue, and then to act accordingly with the tools that we have.

In my case I have two very trusted co-owners and we share moderator responsibilities. When I was in the hospital last year and out of commission for a long time, they took over seamlessly. If the worst had happened we'd then still have one owner with a backup. I understand that there are objections to the co-owner tactic but my bet is it would work for a great many groups.

Pete

The problem here is that Bob has no official capacity within the group. He isn't even a member. While his claims are likely to be true, there's no way to corroborate that independently. Evidence can be faked, and even "voting the current owner off the island" by polling existing members has its problems. Thus support's hands are tied.?

The group owner owns the group, not the members. He should be able to run it as he sees fit. If he wants it to wither from neglect, that's his right. If when he dies, he wants it to die with him, that's his right, too. He should not be subject to ouster by those who think they know how to do things better, even if it's just from a misunderstanding. If that happens even once, that's once too many.??

This question has come up over and over and that's why it's in the FAQ. If you think it might become a problem, do something about it now. You cannot buy life insurance after you're already dead.

Regards,
Bruce

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Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

Hi Bob

As has been said there isn't a straight forward way

If yours is a paid for group you may have some luck contacting groups.io for help, I am not saying they ignore free groups, they don't but paid for are likely to get priority

But looking at your posting history its tailed off considerably and unfortunately the archives are member only

I was going to suggest starting a new group and inviting those still reading in the existing group to join, assuming you are still a subscriber but the archive would be lost

Having said that it may similar to what we had with the demise of rootsweb for genealogy lists, much was said about the loss of the archives but I don't think many bother to check them these days, your situation may be completely different of course

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

If the TentecEagle group is only in IO than contact IO and ask your questions to them as to their policy for such cases. The group is under their jurisdiction
.

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 11:17 AM, Carol Collins wrote:

What happens if there's absolutely no interest in anyone volunteering to be either a co-owner or moderator, even after several requests? My group is nearing its fourth anniversary and no one has expressed any interest in helping. I'm going to try requesting again on our fourth anniversary, but it's frustrating.

Always the way with volunteering, isn't it? Someone suggested giving someone the powers (or perhaps moderator with all powers except the ability to change owner's privileges) but telling them they don't have to do anything. Just a safety net.?
See?
/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-moderators-and-additional-owners/making-a-member-an-owner-or-moderator

Frances
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Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Hi
Not sure but couldn't Mark or one of the mods here make you in to a owner?

“How lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard.”- - Winnie the Pooh
[solicitation removed by moderator]

? Sugar

I have a situation where the TentecEagle group has one owner. That person is deceased as well as the person that has taken his ham radio call. Is there any way or provision to gain membership or ownership access in order to use the history of data, files, etc.

Thanks in advance
Bob, K4TAX

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We had a situation occur like this, a few years ago, where an owner had passed away. And the moderator of the group got promoted to owner. I believe, that you can request this to be done via groups. iOS support email address.

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 09:34 AM, outlawmws wrote:

The current "Solutions" are inadequate and extremely limiting.

My questions are:
What is the problem of adding a co-owner?
If you don't want a co-owner, what's wrong with having a moderator with all permissions?? Or less than all, but enough to run the group?
What are you trying to do that can't be done with the current features?? This needs to be stated clearly or there will never be an option available.

I consider myself the current caretaker of the information in any groups that I "own", as well as on my web site.? Many people have contributed to the data, not just me.? I've given co-ownership on all my groups, just in case, but have discussed the situation with those people that they don't have to do anything as long as I'm around.? If they completely change the group, or even delete it, after I'm gone, I won't care!

Duane
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However it depends on the nature of the group. If it is simply a personal project, it may not matter. Each owner is the best judge of that.

I have read some interesting points and suggestions. Please post something on Beta where the owner Mark Fletcher can read it, and perhaps put it on his to-do list.


Having a second owner is not a rule. I personally think it is best practice for many groups, at least for now.

Frances


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Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 08:33 AM, Mike Hanauer wrote:

But, perhaps the bottom line for me is that I like being able to see past members, which would include RI and Bounced, although perhaps the ability to see them explicitly as past members would be helpful to understanding.

On paid groups, you can see a list of Past Members.? I don't think Bounced and RI are considered past members unless/until they're removed from the group.

Duane
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Happy Sunday everyone
In my groups I have 2 moderators if needed but one moderator has total access as I do as owner, in case today is my last day.
I trust the folks I place as members, isn't that what it should be about though?
Anyways, just my two cents and of course taking care of our groups to help them continue to move forward is helpful to all members.
Have a beautiful day
Sugar


“How lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodb

We might be crossing paths messaging some of our subscribers, but that hopefully will mean the message will get through, if not from one owner then from another owner (although I suspect the target will neither get, read or react to them)

I do not see it in any way as fighting each other, just the opposite

If you have a second email address set up as owner (or moderator?) to receive owner messages, you will have a record by email of any changes to your subscriber lists without cluttering up your member list with people who have never confirmed or reverified
(I say a second email address as my owner address stopped getting all subscribe/unsubscribe messages a while back but the second one does)

Any NC have not confirmed their email address so won't get any group messages anyway, so if more than a few weeks since their application why keep them?

Those who have not reverified will be removed in due course anyway so will not appear in your member list soon

Blue B for bouncing can be sent a bounce probe

Red B are bounced and not receiving, again depending on how long it is or the reason for the bouncing is it worth keeping them

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Duane I respectfully disagree.?

The current "Solutions" are inadequate and extremely limiting.? Separation of powers and segregation of duties are established practices, and for entities like public companies, required business practices.? This current so called solution of multiple owners defeats those practices and regulations/? ?

Grouys.io needs to stop treating this problem from a "hobby" standpoint and enplace policies and procedures and supporting technical solutions to accommodate the reality that not everyone wants to treat the organization of their groups as the current "existing solutions" support.

I have seen other forums have internal political battles and takeovers, some justified, some not..? The decider of whether to assign co-ownership of a group is entirely the group owners, and no one else.??

I personally am owner of at least a half dozen groups.? In only one? case have I set a co-owner.? The rest are at risk if something happens to me.? Heck, currently some don't even have a second moderator..? I set them up to try to save them during? the Yahell debacle, and while they are a shadow of what they used to be,? they live on for now.??

I face this ownership at my workplace as well,? as we manage SaaS services and even though our customers are businesses,? we get cases where they "lose" the sole owner of the account.? These are paying customers and the businesses, despite their poor practices of managing those accounts, and despite use giving them "best practices" still come back needing help to fix the self inflicted problem.

Example causes:

• Company hired a contractor and the contractor leaves (sometimes not amicably)? and owns the account with a personal Email - no self recovery possible.
• Business is sold and the new owners want control? - we must verify the sale was legit.
• business changes email server (URL change related to company name change)? and cannot recover the email of the owner

While some of these may not apply to Group.io owners, parallel? causes (like the demise of an Email service) can.

This is a real problem and Groups.io does a disservice to every group it has attracted by not addressing it.

Some of the solutions we use to address different issues/causes :

• Encourage the company/customer to re-establish the email, give it to a trusted staff member; log in and say "I forgot my password" and then add a new Email/owner.? and? deal with it
  • Only works if you have access to the email
  • cannot be legally? used in the EU/UK/Switzerland (GDPR privacy rules.)
• Establish the true ownership of the account/Company and hack??the account in the back end Database
  • Costly in time and only one person in our company is allowed to do so. - Not desirable, but necessary at times

I think several solutions already suggested are not unreasonable for Groups.io::

• add a feature for an assigned "Inheritor"
• Add a Super admin/owner over current owner level
• have a function to reassign the group ownership on reasonable proof of the demise of the owner

Note that thee is no one "solution" ;? Groups.io needs options to deal with these things, as situations that drive the need change.

The bottom line is that the status quo is not a reasonable solution, as these threads and common occurrences clearly indicate.? Saying "just do the recommended second owner" is closing eyes and ears to a real problem.

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