Received from Shal Farley at 10/28/2018 08:42 PM UTC:
Jim,
My Gio cookie expired within the past day or two... with NO NOTICE to me that I could request a login link!!!!
This may be the fundamental reason you and I are at odds on this topic.
My login expired sometime last night. Then when I clicked on the Pending button I had open in a browser I was taken direct to the Login screen.
I wasn't taken to a login screen. I have a browser default home page with links to frequently visited places. There are three links to the message areas of my the three groups I manage at Gio. I clicked one of them, which happened to be to a group that allows non-members to read, but not post. It looked the same as it usually does (because with an expired cookie I was arriving as a non-member) except I was unable to do anything as Admin. It was then "what the...?" with realization of what happened coming after maybe 10 seconds. Past that 10 seconds it wasn't a problem for me.
BUT... when this happens to others, realizing what happened sometimes never happens and they complain to the group Owner and the Owner, not knowing what's up, complains in GMF. I know you've seen these complaints, and on the order of several times weekly.
This is the behavior I've always seen when my Groups.io login expires, so I don't see any possibility of confusion about what happened or what needs to be done.
I accept that YOU don't see any possibility of confusion, but complaints here should tell you that others don't have your level of expertise.
The two boxes to enter Email Address and Password at the top, and the "Or You Can" buttons for alternate log in methods (email, Facebook and Google) below.
My browser fills in my Email Address automatically, I paste my password (copied from Password Safe), click the green Log in button, and am taken to my intended destination: in last night's case GMF's Pending list.
If you and others are having a more confusing experience when your login expires then that's what we should be discussing - exactly where you were when it happened, and where it took you.
I've seen that discussion many times, yet people still have the problem. I'm interested in resolving the root cause vs educating people one at a time forever.
It is possible that there's a bug or missed case or something that led to your dismay. If we can identify it perhaps it can be corrected.
The "bug" is that I can't offhand name a single place that handles login cookies as Gio does... and in 16 years running groups on Yahoo I never encountered this problem personally, nor did any of my subscribers report problems that appeared to have expired cookies as a cause.
Say whatever you will, but this 30-day cookie thing is one (maybe the only one) aspect of groups that Yahoo did much better.
I'll have to wait and see on that one.
No need to wait. Just consider the number of new complaints every week of visiting the Gio site and not being able to see subscribed groups. There are several causes of that problem, but the responses invariably include the need to log in to recreate an expired cookie. If that cookie didn't expire the problem caused by expired cookies would disappear... or if it were refreshed upon each visit the number of complaints would be greatly decreased.
You might also consider the number of threads in which it has been stated by some owners that their members are old and/or confused and didn't deal well with passwords and with acquiring login links. All of this points to the idea that it would be an improvement to handle login cookies differently; i.e., never expire, or refresh on each visit.
Bottom line? Despite momentaryt confusion I know what to do, but the repeated threads about this - and I mean ones I don't start - suggest that it's a problem for quite a few others.
I know that historically Yahoo Groups classic used a login cookie with a two-week expiration, and just like Groups.io one had to sign in again periodically.
I don't know what "historically" means in this context. I don't ever recall a time when I had to re-login to Yahoo with username/password unless I accidentally erased cookies or manually logged out. My experience with managing groups on Yahoo goes back about 16 years.
At some point (maybe around the time of the 2013 Neo roll-out) the Y!Account code changed, but the Y!Group code didn't, with the result that the top bar would indicate that you were logged in, but the Y!Group pages below that would behave as if you were logged out. This became a FAQ in Y!GMF: part of the "browser ritual" was to log out and back in again, resolving the problem. But I haven't noticed that in a while, so perhaps it is no longer the case.
I remember the Neo rollout only too well... and the later Neo "improvements" that were anything but. I don't recall any such problem unless MAYBE it was one time just to get in sync with Neo... and I don't recall even that. My overall Yahoo account password is/was the same as my Y!Groups password. Yahoo News, Mail and Groups worked with the same password/cookie. It was trouble free unless I accidentally deleted cookies or logged out. Then I had to log back in with UserName/Password.
Shal... the only way I can reconcile what you describe with my own experience is if Yahoo refreshed the cookie upon each visit. I definitely visited often enough that a 2-week expiration would never be reached.
Jim H
