Greetings!

Am suddenly feeling quite anxious regarding this being a required testing year for my fifteen year old son. Is there anyone in this forum who lives in the State of Georgia who might be willing and able to offer some guidance? I do not test my son, and he has never been graded. I know we don't need to turn the test in but I don't even like putting my son through it. I don't feel like it's "right" not to do it either. Am feeling like a bit of a failure as an unschooling parent as we approach these so-called high school years. Sigh. Appreciate any feedback.

Peacefully,
Karen

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 07:13 PM, <ktaylor339@...> wrote:

I know we don't need to turn the test in but I don't even like putting my son through it. I don't feel like it's "right" not to do it either.

If you know that much, why do you need someone from your own state to advise you?? This isn't a legal issue, but a philosophical one.

If you don't need to turn the test in, what is the purpose of the requirement that you "must test" (if that's what it is).? If you have the exact wording of the requirement, bring that.

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Meanwhile, consider reading this.? It's one of my oldest pages, but the principles remain as true as they can be.

Sounds like you CAN avoid it, though, and maybe should.

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There's a bit more here:??

about the kinds of surprised or problems unschoolers have had with standardized tests—things they didn't know, about testing.

Sandra
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(This doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, but it is one.)

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 07:13 PM, <ktaylor339@...> wrote:

Am suddenly feeling quite anxious regarding this being a required testing year for my fifteen year old son.

-=-Am suddenly feeling quite anxious regarding this being a required testing year for my fifteen year old son.?-=-

How long have you been unschooling???

-=- Am feeling like a bit of a failure as an unschooling parent as we approach these so-called high school years.-=-

How long?? I'm not just being conversational here; I really do want to know. :-)

What has made you feel successful, in the past.? What were the good moments or days like for you?

Sandra
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(This might not look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, but it's one of three or four, only two of which will appear here.)

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Thanks everyone for the feedback, and sorry for the vagueness.? We were doing online public school for first four years so he was tested back then. I tested at home three years ago but didn't even discuss any results. Realized around that time (11 - 12 years old) that my son cannot learn that way, and have been allowing him to follow his interests.

Truthfully, I am having doubts based upon my husband not being completely on board. Yes, it's myself and my husband who obviously need more deschooling. It's frightening how deep that conditioning goes, and how I allow my extended family to cause these doubts to arise. I will continue to read more here, and appreciate Sandra referring to the older links.

Thanks for the support and encouragement!

Still learning,
Karen

Here's the exact wording for Georgia homeschooling requirement:

"Your child must be tested at least every three years, beginning at the end of the 3rd grade. You may administer the test if you do this “in consultation with a person trained in the administration and interpretation of norm reference tests.” Test results do not have to be submitted to public school officials."

My son's successes have been many once we left the online school. Last year, in particular, he started his own YouTube Channel with little assistance from anyone. I just need to relax, and trust more. I do appreciate this group, and read plenty. I am an older parent who worries about my son's future because he does have special needs. Thanks again!

I am bringing two posts without the name of the person.? Male name.? Strident defense of school, and unintentional insults to unschooling.

I've been among hundreds of unschoolers at a time for so long (thousands, over the years) that I can honestly forget how much one can not understand about it, sometimes.??

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What do you mean by "an unschooling parent"? If your son is not going to school, do you not take on some of the school role yourself??

I did not have the option to home school my kids, wish I had, but my granddaughter is dealing with her school at home via Zoom etc. She likes being home, hates the interruptions and time schedules required by the school.? She is self motivated, pretty much gets all A's, yet is put through all this BS?

I am a very big fan of testing, which to me is not something one is "put through". It is one's chance to prove they are succeeding, ready for what comes next, something I was always anxious to do.? ? If one is not comfortable with tests, perhaps it is a lack of confidence that you and your son are succeeding.? If that is the case, it seems to me the testing is that much more important.?

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The second post was in response to Jo Isaac, so I'll put that one there.

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(This doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, but it is one.)

Sandra here, quoting a dad / grandfather (also quoted above), who wrote in response to Jo's comments:

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While I doubt much can be said about a person based on test scores of any kind,? the advent of home schooling allows for flagrantly bad parenting, for which the child will pay for in life.? Imposing some minimal standard via testing assures there is at least some form of education going on. I don't like that such tests are done under the auspices of government,? but measuring a child's development is certainly not a bad idea.? Such is not done in order to judge anything other than progress, and as parents, we are ultimately responsible for assuring our children's progress.?

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I'm not suggesting a formal test is the only way to do that, but perhaps the only way the state can be sure the child it also has a responsibility for is progressing. Again, it is the child that pays for a lack of childhood progress.??? ?

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I don't blame people who just fell into this group somehow for not understanding more.? It's only recently that one could stumble in. :-)? For a long time, people came here from other unschooling discussions, and only those who wanted more advanced discussions joined here.

I'll make a couple of comments and the link to more information about the group:

-=-the advent of home schooling allows for flagrantly bad parenting, for which the child will pay for in life.-=-

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"The advent of homeschooling" isn't recent.??

School has failed to prevent flagrantly bad parenting.? Some schools have added flagrantly harmful schooling.

A child does not "pay" for having been parented badly.? Think again.? Bad parents have never become good parents because a stranger said "your child will pay for your bad parenting."

Unschooling, though—radical unschooling as has been discussed in this group for nearly 20 years, and in other places by some of those still in this group for ten years before that—is all about exceptionally GOOD parenting.

Not everyone who tries to, intends to, claims to be an unschooler does a great job, but very many do.? Any who fail to be better parents than they've been didn't read enough or participate enough in discussions to rub the schooly barbs off their own former thoughts.? Not everyone wants to do that.? We're here to help the people who DO want to recover from their own schooling and schoolishness.

-=-Imposing some minimal standard via testing assures there is at least some form of education going on.-=-

Learning.? There is a fancy form of learning going on.? It's based on The Open Classroom, but isn't limited by the building or the school hours or the finite set of materials that an open-classroom school has.

Learning, not education.? There is a fancy form of living within a family that dedicates itself to creating a learning environment, that we're creating.

-=-?but measuring a child's development is certainly not a bad idea.-=-

Had you read the link I brought to the pages on tests, on my site, you would see stories of real people and disadvantages even of high scores.? It can bring results harmful to self-esteem, and it will change the relationship between the parent and child in every single instance that the score is known by the parent, even if the child doesn't know.? Parents deny it, and try with all their might to ignore the scores, and they fail. So let's not test them (the parents) that way if it's not necessary.

-=-?Such is not done in order to judge anything other than progress, ,-=-

That sounds good, and peaceful.? You do know, though, that it's not true.? Test scores grade children, literally, like eggs or beef.? There are the good ones, the fair ones, and the substandard—literally, mathematically substandard.

-=-?...and as parents,?we are ultimately responsible for assuring our children's progress.?-=-

In a successful unschooling family, progress will be blatantly obvious, because learning and growth are right there, every day, all day, every week, month, and year it's seen.? But the learning happens in the moment.??

-=-I'm not suggesting a formal test is the only way to do that, but perhaps the only way the state can be sure the child it also has a responsibility for is progressing.-=-

There are some responsibilities, it's true, but parents don't serve the state.? They aren't in-loco state...reps. :-)

-=-Again, it is the child that pays for a lack of childhood progress.???-=-

Again, you're wrong.? "Pays" is a harsh and awkward way of thinking of the effects of trauma or neglect on a child.

This group is not ABOUT trauma or neglect.

The easiest way to gently look at a lot of these ideas is a daily blog called Just Add Light and Stir.? There are over 3,000 posts already, and a randomizer.? Each has a link or two to similar ideas.? It's easy to dip into for a few moments and come out calmer.

https://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/

Sandra

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We were required to test also, without needing to turn it in. I (a mom of 2 grown unschoolers) handled that a couple of ways:

We just didn’t test. This wasn’t too risky, as homeschooling inspectors rarely made home visits or required homeschoolers to show their required documents. They had to announce any inspection well before they came, so I figured if they were coming, we’d do a test before then. That never happened.

My youngest needed standardized test scores to qualify for... something. I don’t remember now what it was. I was a tiny bit nervous when I saw what I thought were requirements: that someone other than the parents proctor the test, that the test be timed, that the test-taker take the test alone.

I looked deeper, and found those were strong recommendations, not requirements, so it became an “open-book” (open internet) test, overseen by me, not timed in any way, and taken over a few days in our home amongst everyone. (I may have lied on the form, that we had followed the recommendations; I don’t remember that, either.) He could ask any questions he needed to ask. If we’d been required to hand in test scores every year, we would have either done this, or I’d have taken the tests for them.

For most of it, he decided to not look anything up, and ask only clarifying questions. He was 17, and wanted to see how he’d do. He got frustrated when he got to the higher math questions, so after trying several things, I took that part for him. If he’d wanted, I’d have filled in the entire test for him. I find standardized tests kinda fun.

This is my family, our lives. I was very comfortable with those choices.

Caren

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NOTE:? It turns out the grandfather of a child doing covid school from home, who never homeschooled his own kids, who was talking about the importance of tests, knew nothing about unschooling except for reading John Holt 30 years ago.? That's not evil, but he went on and ON about himself and the value of tests and how well he did on tests.? I deleted four more posts, but saved this much to share how little people can think unschooling is, and to remind readers that there IS a lot that can be done to created a peaceful unschooling nest in which learning can't fail to thrive.

me:

-I am bringing two posts without the name of the person.? Male name.? Strident defense of school, and unintentional insults to unschooling.

[the? former group member]

In fact, I have been a very big critic of public school and the sort of indoctrination that goes on there.? This however does not discount the importance of some of the things presented there, and some skills developed.? It is not enough to criticize public school, a parent must take on the greater job and broader idea of education.? My saying so in no way suggests anyone should leave any portion of their children's education up to "government" schools.?

[me]

I've been among hundreds of unschoolers at a time for so long (thousands, over the years) that I can honestly forget how much one can not understand about it, sometimes.?

[other]

"Unschool" would seem to be rather self evident. It is avoiding or overcoming the damage done by schools, which is every parent's job.? It is something I have always done. Why you think my probing and perhaps at time, critical remarks makes me the enemy I can not know.??

Whatever unique definition you might be thinking of, it is not the name of this group. "Always Learning" describes my entire life, and that of my 3 boys, all raised to question authority (not to suggest disrespecting same), and discuss in depth different ways of viewing everything.?

__________________________ end of quotes___________________

-=-"Unschool" would seem to be rather self evident. It is avoiding or overcoming the damage done by schools, which is every parent's job.? It is something I have always done.-=-

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That definition allows someone whose children were in school to ay he always unschooled.? This isn't helpful to anyone in this group.

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-=-Whatever unique definition you might be thinking of, it is not the name of this group. "Always Learning" describes my entire life, and that of my 3 boys, all raised to question authority (not to suggest disrespecting same), and discuss in depth different ways of viewing everything. -=-

If the name of the group was enough to describe unschooling, I wouldn't need my website; we wouldn't even need the group.? Just name it and have done.? It would be "rather self-evident."

Again, for people new to this, definitions of unschooling by different radical unschoolers are, as a collection, illuminating.

Some of these are really sweet:

I have loved helping people to understand unschooling for nearly 30 years now.? Kirby will turn 35 this summer, and I started discussing and exchanging ideas about unschooling, reading Growing Without Unschooling, and meeting other unschoolers, when he was five.

I'm getting a little tired now. :-)? And this guy's six posts complaining and acting like none of us knows anything about school made me more tired.? :-)

Sandra

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The ultimate Truth for this One is how my son displays such intuitive knowing of who he is, and why he is on this planet. He doesn't understand mainstream society at all as far as why anyone would be forced to conform to anything that is contrary to what works best for them as a human being. My son is the kindest, most compassionate, courteous human being I know because he quite simply treats others, inside our home and outside, how he wants to be treated. Despite learning differently, timewise and otherwise, he has common sense, and knows when things lack sense such as state testing requirements or any standard educational requirements.? He does, however, "get" that we must adhere to legal requirements as a US citizen plus current Georgia resident. My son is also one hundred percent literal, and incapable to tell a lie (much to my embarrassment often times.)

Am amazed how my son considers himself a "grammar geek" and finds it "annoying and frustrating" to find errors in spelling or punctuation in books, web pages, texts, online chats, comments, e-mail, etc. His best friend now writes in full sentences in game chats or YouTube comment instead of using "i" or "u", etc. due to my son's influence. His friend's mother told me that my son did this by being an example, and not by correcting or shaming at all.? That mother forces her son to homeschool with worksheets and eight daily hours of sitting at a table. My son learned to spell, expand vocabulary and utilize proper grammar because he is a voracious reader.

Anyway, I could also go on and on with examples of success since Sandra asked but I too have grown tired. I am not on Facebook which is why I reached out here. I am most grateful for everyone's comments this week along with countless past comments going ten years back which I had the pleasure and fortunate opportunity to read through most of yesterday and late last night.

I will be contacting Heather directly, and appreciate more than words can say her post, as she lives in Georgia, and that was what I came here seeking. The Universe always provides, and I feel humbled indeed.

May you all keep trudging this road of Happy Destiny until we meet again.

Sandra, Please know I consider you an Angel, and feel blessed by all I have learned through you the last ten years! Your daily e-mail has always been the highlight of my entire family's day. :-)

Peacefully,
Karen

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I’m on my phone, so hopefully this goes through correctly without sharing all past messages.?