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Expensive Games
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In a message dated 11/25/01 2:41:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, dvilter@... writes:
The other night he was telling me how he could start building his next army Marty started to do Warhammer 40K, which is a figure-based game. ?He couldn't get into the intricacies of painting and all that. ?They're playing another figure game, MageKnight (with which I know Dan's son is also familiar/involved), and it's medium expensive. ?But my kids DO card games. ?Warlord and Legend of Five Rings are current faves. ? They will refer to "cardboard crack," which is Magic (cards). ?And the reference is to the addictive nature of the activity. -=-.? Up till now he has been spending his own money (which he is now out of.)? What learning comes from our feeding this money pit?-=- Well... Maybe he could get a job at the shop and get a 30% discount. ?(I mention it because that's how it went with Kirby, but that means we got a 30% discount on the new Risk boardgame, with the side-gameboard of the moon. ?Woohoo! ?(for Keith, my husband, for Christmas!) Maybe you could order Christmas stuff through the shop where Kirby works! ?(Drugs, still, but discount drugs.) This is no answer; this is just chitchat and commiseration. Sandra |
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Hi :-) *new person alert*
I have never regretted supporting my kids' interests, inexpensive, expensive, or otherwise. Something takes place in the passionate pursuit which doesn't necessarily show up right away. There are gives and gets financially - - figure out what you can realistically allot, and then brainstorm ways with him to earn the rest of the money he needs. If he's truly passionate about obtaining the figures, he'll find a way. Sharon, whose children fortunately love Dungeons and Dragons, most of which takes place in their heads. |
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Dan Vilter
Howdy!
My son has become immersed in table top role playing games, Mordheim, 40K, and now Battlefleet Gothic. It is very exciting to see his interest take off in something that wasn't described by us, his parents. He has a good time playing the games at the game parlor. Great so far. My concern is that he spends all of his money on these games. These games are played with very expensive models. My instincts are to let him figure out the value of the games and the money. The instant he gets any money it is spent on the games. The other night he was telling me how he could start building his next army for only $100 and to finish it would be about $250. I feel like I'm living with a junkie. Computer games seem so cheap in comparison. Does anyone else have this kind of experience? How did it turn out? I held out till age ten for reading to click. When and how does a balance with money come about? I am listening respectfully. And I do trust him to eventually figure out that there is more to the world than these games. So... we do celebrate Christmas. Up till now he has been spending his own money (which he is now out of.) What learning comes from our feeding this money pit? What is learned by our excluding something that he has immense interest in? It is just so darned expensive. -Dan Vilter |
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On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:39:12 -0800 Dan Vilter <dvilter@...> writes:
These games are played with very expensive models.This is totally off the subject, but I got a bunch of little figures by Starlux and Britains at a thrift store and have been selling them on ebay, having no idea what they were for... are you or your son familiar with those brands? And if he's interested in any of the ones I have left, he could basically name his price... he might want to try shopping on ebay, too, there are a lot of them for sale there. The other night he was telling me how he could start building his nextarmy for only $100 and to finish it would be about $250. I feel like I'mSee, this just sounds so cool to me. I dunno. My daughter doesn't play games like that yet, but her mindset on playmobil is sort of like this, and I've really caught the fever and I'm always scouting for good deals on the sets we (oops...;-) she needs. Of course, I'm a real bargain hunter, so the thrill for me is finding the stuff cheap, whereas she's fine with spending lots of money, she just wants to do good "setups". I think of it as having a passion for something, and I value that highly. People without passions are boring. ;-) I'm the same way, still, if that helps. I learned to knit a couple of months ago and I've spent over $200. I've almost finished a sweater now... So... we do celebrate Christmas. Up till now he has been spending hisown money (which he is now out of.) What learning comes from our feedingthis money pit? What is learned by our excluding something that he hasI've always figured that her money is her money, although I admit that I occasionally try to talk her out of something that I think is a rip-off. Doesn't usually work, though. She spent over $50 on an American Girls fifties outfit for Halloween that I thought was so not worth it, but she really wanted it... I've always found that one learns an amazing amount when diving into a new area of interest. I'm sure the games themselves are full of strategy and rules and all, but there's also all the other info, about the pieces and the people there and just everything, a whole world to learn about! Dar ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: . |
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Jocelyn Vilter
I'm the enabling mom of the expensive game junkie. ?I *did* just spend on the order of a couple of hundred dollars at his game store, since the pusher (I mean owner) is having a 25% off sale this weekend. An example for those who are not familiar with these particular games - it can easily cost $60.00 for a starter set of these pieces. ?That's enough to set up one kind of army but seemingly never the kind my son really wants. ?So then we end up having to buy the smaller adjunct boxed sets or blister cards. ?Yikes - it is never ending. ?You get a big fat manual when you buy the set, but then they change the rules sometimes so you have to buy what they call "codexes" to keep up with the changes. ? Is it a strange coincidence that the owner reminds me of the comic book store guy from The Simpsons? ??I thought his sort of cranky personality might be enough to make Matthew give up the games, but instead, he's learning how to be around someone like that - a good lesson, I suppose. ?He spends enough time there that he *could* work there, but it's a fairly new store, and he only has one other employee - which could go a long way towards explaining why he's so cranky. ? We've talked about how virtually everyone who plays these games (at this store, anyway) is an ADULT, with a JOB, but so far that doesn't seem to have dimmed his enthusiasm. ?Yesterday I talked about how when you pick an expensive hobby, like say, restoring a vintage car, you can't always just go out and buy the parts exactly when you need them - that sometimes you have to wait until your next paycheck. ?Granted, he's not paying rent yet or buying groceries but he has an allowance and it has to stretch the month. ?He was worried that when he started getting an allowance, that we wouldn't buy him anything any more. ?I assured him that I reserved the right to buy him stuff whenever I felt like it (which is still pretty often). ?I just can't make myself buy him this particular gaming stuff though - it seems that this is his thing and that he ought to finance it. ?It sounds a bit on re-reading this that we nag him about his interest, but we don't. ?We just talk about it when it comes up ?(which is all the time). ? I DO know that he is getting a lot out of playing these games and hanging around the store - I'm mostly just blowing off steam. ? Jocelyn |
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Well! These games sound totally cool. Where have I been?
My son spends all his money on Godzilla collectibles. We've just decided it is the way of things. Usually we all only have a limited amount of spending money and when it's gone, that's it. He sometimes budgets his money but if the thing he wants becomes available he'd spend any amount to get his hands on it. I guess I haven't worried about it. ( Until now! Thanks a lot! ) It is spending money, right? He's not blowing your house payment or anything? That's funny about the cardboard crack. We refer to the Godzilla stuff as monster crack! Deb L |
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Jocelyn Vilter
It is his spending money, and no, we aren't in danger of losing the house
yet. I guess what bugs me so much about this stuff is that it seems so overpriced and that they keep you coming back for more with all the add-on's. Also, right now for example, he's just dying to have one of these books (I never thought I'd have a problem buying him a book). #1 - he's out of allowance money until the 1st of Dec. 1A - he's already "in debt" to us for half of his allowance because he just had to have another army. #2 - It's a $25.00 paperback. #3 - I dunno - it just bugs me. #4 - the war thing bothers me, but I realize that that is my problem to get over or just stifle. I guess I haven't worried about it. ( Until now! Thanks a lot! )Yer welcome! Here, just in case you want to look... In defense of the store, I have to say that they don't charge to participate in tournaments like Wizards of the Coast does. When he was into Magic, it was $5.00 a week to play there on Friday nights. grumpy Jocelyn From: ddzimlew@... |
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What if he was playing chess? (Play along with me here...) :)
Maybe chess wouldn't be *quite* as expensive, but it's easy for it to get pricey. Tournament fees, books, a nicely weighted set, a nice board, a travel set, a clock, more books, chess camp, another clock, classes, more books, a tutor, more books... :) People think chess players are really smart and are impressed by kids who are serious about the game. It's a very interesting phenomenon. If I tell people my kids spent all day playing games they're told they're lucky they didn't have to work all day. If I tell people my kids spent all day playing chess they're oohed and ahed over and congratulated for working so hard. It's weird. The truth is that chess is not necessarily the most valuable game they play, and good chess players are not on average any smarter than the rest of us in other areas. Perception is everything. The bad thing about your kid playing role playing games instead of chess is that you'll have to defend it more to busybodies (including the nag inside your head <g>) even though it's just as valuable in developing concentration, logic, memory, all that good stuff. The good thing about your kid playing role playing games instead of chess is that you probably won't find yourself pushing and prodding him to develop his talents at the game in spite of your best intentions. :) The most sensible parents of serious young chess players I know have settled into supporting the interest as much as they feel able while helping the kids find ways to earn money to support their habit. Deborah in IL |
I guess what bugs me so much about this stuff is that it seemsWhile I don't have experience with these games, I can certainly join in the grumbling about stuff being overpriced. Our most recent experience with this is the new Lego Bionicles. Too new to be turning up in second hand stores or yard sales, and packaged in such a way that you end up spending a small fortune to get a good set for a little builder. So you have my sympathy. A lot of good that does you. <g> Thanks for the web address. I think. Deb L |
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In a message dated 11/25/2001 10:14:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, DACunefare@... writes:
What if he was playing chess? (Play along with me here...) ?:) Uh, Jocelyn and Dan? He could be passionate about, let's just say, uh, HORSES!!!! (Like someone in my family ) When my oldest daughter got interested in clothes -- we had a period of about 6 months where I couldn't stand to take her places with me -- this realization came upon me suddenly one day and I realized that it was because she was constantly asking to buy things. We'd not had that problem before -- but suddenly she wanted a ring or earrings or a sweater or shoes or socks or a hair thing or whatever.... and I was constantly in the position of having to either hand her the money or say no -- and I'd never really felt like that before. It was obvious to me that it was very arbitrary on my part - some days to say, "Sure, buy it," and other days to say, "No, not today." I couldn't possibly buy everything she wanted - she seemed to have suddenly developed a bottomless desire for this type of stuff. But I was having to make decisions FOR HER all the time and that was what was making me miserable. How on earth could I know whether she'd rather have the ring she wanted today or the hair thing she was going to see in another shop the next day. And each of the things she wanted was pretty minimal in cost - it was NEVER true that any one of them would put us in the poor house. So the obvious solution was to work out a reasonable allowance and then let her make all her OWN decisions. She'd had a "spending money" allowance already - but this involved clothing and I'd always paid for her clothes for her. So we created a "clothing allowance" (we worked together on figuring out what we could afford and what was reasonable) and made it clear that ALL clothing and accessories were now her choice - she could spend that much money any way she wanted. So it was a HUGE relief to me to not have to feel that pressure while were in a store - not have to make split second decisions about whether to say yes or no to something she wanted. It changed our relationship WAY for the better. And I was totally able to let her spend it as she wanted - and, yep, she did have to learn the hard way. But, guess what? She eventually learned to shop at thrift stores and to save her money to spend on things she REALLY wanted more than the trinkets she'd been asking me for all the time. One last thing. In economics there is a concept of diminishing marginal utility --- this says that when you consume more and more of something you get less and less additional benefit. So if you eat one candy bar, its wonderful. But if someone gives you a second one it might still be good, but not as wonderful as the first one that you just ate. And a third might stll be good, but not as great as the second was. ?I think my daughter began to enjoy her purchases a LOT more once she had a clear budget limit -- each thing she bought became more highly valued. Partly that was because she was putting so much more thought into what she wanted. But partly that was just because she was, really, getting a lot less stuff so that the marginal value was higher - since she had to choose to buy the higher-valued items and then stop buying. Yep. We were spending 1/4 of what we'd been spending before and she was HAPPIER with the purchases. Since he has an allowance and is spending it all on the gaming stuff, what's the problem? He wants more? So - if his allowance is too small (you could afford to spend more and you do, so he asks), increase it to a reasonable amount - considering what you REALLY can afford to let him spend. If that is really it - then don't feel bad if he can't get everything he wants when he wants it. And then you can give nice gifts and the kids REALLY enjoy them. Pam Sorooshian National Home Education Network ? |
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I'm so happy to be on this list! Already I'm fascinated by the
conversation! I have a twelve year old son, Julian, who is really into games, particularly Dungeons and Dragons, which we actually play as a family quite often. (I played in college a bit.) This morning he spent hours with his books, a notebook, and a calculator developing a D&D militia, where he figured out how many people and horses and other equipment he wanted, bought them a boat to bring them across water, figured out how many boats he would need (went to dictionary to determine how many pounds in a ton, since I didn't remember), figured out how much horses weighed (online, because I don't have a clue), etc. This wasn't even for a particular game...it was just play! At one point he laughed and said, "Hey, mama! I'm doing math!" Yep, among other things. Kathryn Baptista |
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groundhoggirl
Now that's beautiful!! and that's what unschooling is all about.
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Before my husband and I were married and we had our boys, he used to play D & D for days at a time with a whole bunch of other intellectuals. I was a bit intimidated by that very nice group of people and didn't participate. But I did enjoy listening to the games while I did my needlepoint. Now, today, as a family, we too create role-playing stories which can last for a couple of hours. The boys love it. It's a lot of fun. Mimi On Monday, November 26, 2001, at 01:02 PM, KathrynJB@... wrote:
I'm so happy to be on this list! Already I'm fascinated by the
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Jocelyn Vilter
I did a google search on these Bionicles after you wrote this - I'd seen
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them but never paid too much attention to them before. I read a little on the Lego website about them - and yes, they do seem to fall into the "collectable" category, unlike the usual sort of Lego. Lucky you. Welcome to the club <eg>. I was interested to see another link for them to the Crosswalk site - some moms had written in to say that they didn't approve, that they fell into the Harry Potter family of toys that make them uncomfortable. Reactions like that always catch me off guard. Jocelyn
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Jocelyn Vilter
You raise some interesting points here Deb... When you talk about busybodies
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and having to defend his interests, I realized that there is really *no one* like that in our lives! Are we too lucky or what? His grandparents don't really get it, but they don't criticize either. Most of our friends are other homeschooling families and they are all cool with it too. I think I made it sound like this is the only kind of game play Matthew is interested in, but he is constantly making up games on his own. He makes up what he calls "voice based games" which require nothing more than some paper for keeping track of statistics and points. He makes up games using those really cheap army guys to play at the park with his friends. He'll play almost any kind of board game at least once. When left to his own devices, and with nothing else at hand, he makes sound effects to accompany what we like to call his "rich inner life" <g>. I'm just going to have to get over the idea that I know what's best for him all the time. He obviously gets something really big out of these particular games, and as long as he can support the habit, so be it. Jocelyn From: DACunefare@... |
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