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Vickie,

Not being very bright ot talented, I (correctly) figured I could
never get my headstock and tailstock in perfect allignment But I
figured that even though not understanding all (or any) of the various
published methods of achieving perfection in this area, I could get
close enough (via perseverance and dumb luck) to do acceptable work.
I lucked out in the first instance by getting a really well made
old style Homier. The old style Homiers and Cummins lathes use two
rear set screws instead of the one central set screw used on the Seig
machines. This difference alone makes the allignment MUCH easier
provided that these set screws are immediately replaced with 6mm
SHCS's. On a seig machine, holes would need to be drilled and taped
for these invaluable "adjustment" screws. The first step is to get the
allignment "close." This entails centering a perfectly round rod
(printer rod, shock absorber rod or drill rod, etc.) in a collet or
four jaw chuck. The rod only needs to be 3 or 4 inches long with one
inch protruding. The tailstock is then removed and the bottom locking
screw is loosened and the tailstock is replaced on the bed and locked
down. A jacobs chuck (with open jaws) is then firmly inserted. Next
you unlock and slide up the tailstock until the rod enters the jacobs
chuck and your head and tailstocks "kiss." You then lock down the
tailstock and tighten the jacobs chuck. You then loosen and retighten
the tailstock locking nut (or camlock if you have one). You next
loosen and snug up the two rear (6X1mm) adjusting screws. During this
process the tailstock quill may be locked or unlocked. It will be
locked if you want things to be (near) perfect when turning or
unlocked if you want things to be (near) perfect when drilling. (I
used the unlocked method). You next carefully remove the tailstock
(relying on your two rear adjustment screws to hold everything
together) and tighten the bottom lock screw. Then remove both chucks.
Put a #3 morse center in the headstock and a #2 morse taper in the
tailstock. Bring up and lock the tailstock base and use the razor
blade method to see how close to perfect you are. Using a razor blade
(or something similar) held between a #3 morse center point in the
headstock and a #2 morse center point will show how close to perfect
allignment you are. If everything is "perfect" the blade will be
perfectly perpendicular to the points, both up and down and side to
side. The blade will show you if your tailstock is too high or low and
if it's too far forward or back. In my case my height was perfect and
I was slightly too far foward. All I had to do was slightly tighten
the front adjusting screw and very slightly loosen the rear screw (you
always finish by making sure both adjustment screws are tight). You
are now perfect right where you are at. This will constantly change as
you use different chucks and the tailstock is locked and unlocked at
different spots with different quill extensions and as things wear
from use. No one adjustment lasts forever. Generally the things I make
don't have to be absolutely perfect. When I made new over sized
(better fitted) compound and cross feed lead screws, I wanted them to
be perfect. This was pretty easy to do. When I cut a new cross slide
lead screw it took all of my bed length. After chucking my drill rod
and taking a few light surface cuts, I miked the ends and discovered
that the tailstock end was .0015" larger than the headstock end of the
rod (soon to be screw). By very slightly tightening the front
tailstock adjusting screw and very slight loosening of the rear screw
(followed by several more light test cuts) I was able to get a
perfectly straight cut with absolutely no measurable taper. It should
be noted that these ultra fine adjustments are made without loosening
the base nut or bottom locking screw (i.e. the tailstock can be
"tweeked" into perfect allignment even though the upper part of the
tailstock would seem to be solidly affixed to the lower part of the
tailstock and the lathe bed. Any time you need a perfectly straight
cut, this method of "on the fly correction" can be employed. I can't
imagine why seig machines only have one central rear set screw when
having two opposing (opposite side) screws makes adjustment SO much
faster and easier.
I'm sure this is NOT the professional or approved method of
alligning the head and tailstocks but it has worked very well for me.

Bruce

G'day Vikki et al.
Vikki by now you must be totally confused. There you have generated
much useful discussion. I forgot to answer one of your questions,
that relating to the shim between the centres. It has been answered
by others, the shim can be a razor blade even a thin steel rule,
something the points on the centres can't penetrate.

Out of all this two things come to light. Firstly you need to check
your tailstock centering every time you want to turn a long parallel
piece. This is good practice with any lathe even more so with old
lathes. Secondly your design should acknowledge that some taper is
possible. For example, I recently turned a shaft which was to have a
bearing near each end. As I turned and miked the shaft I discovered I
was turning a taper. To overcome this I turned the midddle section of
the shaft below the bearing diameter and then separately turned each
bearing section to the nominated diameter. I guess this good practice
anyway.

There is an old saying "A poor workman blames his tools". Behind this
is the fact that a good workman keeps his tools in good service but
also knows and allows for their shortcomings.
The other old saying, "measure twice and cut once". It applies to
lathes.

BTW. You can check you headstock alignment by taking off the chuck
running your dial indicator across the face of the spindle with the
DI mounted on the cross slide. I am yet to be convinced that
headstock alignment is a problem unless the lathe has been mistreated
in transport or similar accidental damage. You can't turn longer than
3 times the job diameter so a small angular misalignment is not going
to induce much taper. Anyway the spindle axis and the cross slide
axis are not meant to be precisely perpendicular. For instance
turning across a face should cause a slight concavitiy, only a few
thou, but the concavity must be there. If not, a faced surface will
not sit flat on a truly flat surface.

Anyhow Vikki, the host of responses indicates your bower is working!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

Hello Bruce,

Thanks VERY much for you comments here, after a night to think on the
problem and your comments as well as some from other folks here, I have
a much better head space :-) on the problem!

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Bruce Leo Hartmann"
<goodsnout@...> wrote:

Vickie,

Not being very bright ot talented, I (correctly) figured I could
never get my headstock and tailstock in perfect allignment But I
figured that even though not understanding all (or any) of the various
published methods of achieving perfection in this area, I could get
close enough (via perseverance and dumb luck) to do acceptable work.

That seems to be where I am at :-).

I lucked out in the first instance by getting a really well made
old style Homier. The old style Homiers and Cummins lathes use two
rear set screws instead of the one central set screw used on the Seig
machines. This difference alone makes the allignment MUCH easier
provided that these set screws are immediately replaced with 6mm
SHCS's. On a seig machine, holes would need to be drilled and taped
for these invaluable "adjustment" screws.

Just went in there and looked at the back of the tailstock and that idea
makes so much sense as to be staggering. I have some 6-32 stainless
screws that I think will work for this and may put this idea into
practice today! Smacking the tailstock back and forth with the jewelers
hammer is an exercise in frustration and does nothing for the paint :-).

Out of PURE frustration (and sore wrists :-), I ordered the cam lock kit
last night from LMS. Cranking that bolt tight and loose is far more of
a job than I want to do constantly in this process (now or in the
future). I'd read in a great number of places that the cam lock is one
of the best mods one can make and I now understand *exactly* why that is
:-).

This mod also looks like a really wise idea for a number of reasons:



With the addition of two screws spaced out on the back and the tailstock
adjuster life should be a LOT easier.

The first step is to get the
allignment "close."
[ ... ]

Rather than commenting (cluelessly :) on the rest of this, I copied it
out and printed it for inclusion into my Shop Notebook to study while I
go through this and future reference. Utterly excellent!

I'm sure this is NOT the professional or approved method of
alligning the head and tailstocks but it has worked very well for me.

As I have heard somewhere, if it is stupid and it works, it is not
stupid :-).

The good news here, I think, is that I am getting over the aversion to
doing anything to the lathe, sorta like the new car syndrome :-).

Thanks VERY much and take care, Vikki.

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@...> wrote:

Thanks to all that responded to this query.

OK, I am *totally* intimidated after going through some of the

websites

suggested :-(.

It is going to take a LOT more experience and especially more
understanding than I have before I start tearing down the lathe to

that

degree.

Of interest, I dug out that bolster bar I made out of the 1"

stainless

rod and measured that at each end (3") and it is only off by 0.001.
Chucked on one end, center drilled and supported by the live center

in

the tailstock.

Wonder if my problem is flex in the workpiece, as in I am hogging

it?

It would see that would make it off in the middle were it is

unsupported

though.

Yep, I am totally confused about what is going on here.

The item that was off the 0.015 was wood and I am now wondering if

the

centers being slightly off from the center marks (assuming they were
perfect) would cause that much difference? I would think that

turning

that down would result in it being symmetrical / consistent from

end to

end once it was turned down far enough?

Starting to think I really need a mentor or at least a decent course
about all this.

Thanks & take care, Vikki (The Massively Confuzed).

vikki;
you mentioned that the part you were turning was wood. on a
typical length of wood, because of the growth rings, the density of
the wood fibers will be different. this could result in a somewhat
eliptical circumference. if by chance you took your two measurments,
90 degrees apart from each other, that could explain what has occured.
it's also possible that, depending on species, the grain, thus
density, could ghange along even a short piece of wood. just a couple
of outside the box thoughts that might explain what's gone wrong.

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day Vikki et al.
Vikki by now you must be totally confused.

A bit less than yesterday, I think :-)!

There you have generated
much useful discussion.

Some very good material has come out of this from many people and it has
certainly helped me a LOT!

I forgot to answer one of your questions,
that relating to the shim between the centres. It has been answered
by others, the shim can be a razor blade even a thin steel rule,
something the points on the centres can't penetrate.

OK, understand now, thanks! I'd seen that idea suggested for aligning
tools to spindle center but had (somehow?) forgotten about it since I
made my little tool height gauge. It obviously has other applications
too, thanks, that one goes in my mental toolbox :)!

Out of all this two things come to light. Firstly you need to check
your tailstock centering every time you want to turn a long parallel
piece. This is good practice with any lathe even more so with old
lathes. Secondly your design should acknowledge that some taper is
possible. For example, I recently turned a shaft which was to have a
bearing near each end. As I turned and miked the shaft I discovered I
was turning a taper. To overcome this I turned the midddle section of
the shaft below the bearing diameter and then separately turned each
bearing section to the nominated diameter. I guess this good practice
anyway.

Makes sense once I thought about it, something to remember (so much of
that going on here) hopefully I'll be able to retain all this wisdom
that has been so graciously given!

There is an old saying "A poor workman blames his tools". Behind this
is the fact that a good workman keeps his tools in good service but
also knows and allows for their shortcomings.
The other old saying, "measure twice and cut once". It applies to
lathes.

Err, but..., but.., but I have cut it off THREE times already and it is
still to damn short ;-)!

Slowly I am learning my tools and once one knows the rules then one know
which can be broken. I strongly suspect the learning will never end,
which suits me just fine :-). This is all just so fun and even more so
when one starts really understanding things.

BTW. You can check you headstock alignment by taking off the chuck
running your dial indicator across the face of the spindle with the
DI mounted on the cross slide. I am yet to be convinced that
headstock alignment is a problem unless the lathe has been mistreated
in transport or similar accidental damage.

I'll save messing with the headstock for later, this whole tailstock
thing has been enough for just the moment :-). Other than the taper
turning issue, the rest of it ?seems? to be very good and better than
some folks get. Perhaps wishing hard for some color other than yellow
for the unit had some other results like getting the gods at Seig and
the shipping folks to grace me with a special smile? LOL.

You can't turn longer than
3 times the job diameter so a small angular misalignment is not going
to induce much taper. Anyway the spindle axis and the cross slide
axis are not meant to be precisely perpendicular. For instance
turning across a face should cause a slight concavitiy, only a few
thou, but the concavity must be there. If not, a faced surface will
not sit flat on a truly flat surface.

Now that is a perplexing though to consider for a bit.

Anyhow Vikki, the host of responses indicates your bower is working!

:-) must be :-).

Planning on looking at sinking at least one more screw in the back of
the tailstock today - need to look at it as placement with the ramped
way on the base is probably an important issue to consider. An
exciting mill project :-)!

I did order the tailstock cam lock kit last night, had quite enough of
turning that hold down nut rather constantly already :-).

Thanks very much for your help and patience with my denseness :-)!

Take care, Vikki (off to the shop!).

Here's a pretty good article on making the TS work properly.

<
ilstock/IndicatingBase/index.html>

Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

Update...

I hath created a monster, I think :).

After loosening the socket head screw under the tailstock I

discover the

top of the tailstock flops in the X and Y axis. Raised section on

the

base and the slot in the tailstock itself are mismatched by (guess)

at

least 1/8", lotsa twist there.

Apparently that little slot head set screw on the back of the

tailstock

is for adjusting the Z (?rotational) orientation. If it was ever
tightened down, it worked loose over time.

I'm not sure what I am seeing here, but I get top and bottom of the
quill to read zero (top set as reference zero) but the front (toward
operator) and back are both around 13 (plus to front, minus to

rear),

depending on the tap of the moment.

I was using the dead center for this and I thought that it was
elliptical (flattened top to bottom). So, just to see what

happened, I

rotated the dead center 90 degrees expecting the top / bottom to
increase and the front / rear to decrease. Values did not

change ?!?

Tried this using the inside and outside of the quill and get the

same

kind of results.

I'm perplexed!

Putting this away for today, tired of cranking on that lock nut :-).

One another note. I was thinking it might be nice to have a place

were

folks could chat live, I put together a channel on

chat.freenode.net:

#vmmst

Standing for: Virtual Micro and Mini-Machine Shop Tavern :-).

Any IRC client will get you there set up for the network
(chat.freenode.net) and the channel (#vmmst).

IRC has gotten a bad rep for obnoxious jerks, but the exception to

this

I have found is freenode, my personal channel is there and I have

yet

(in years now) to have any problem with jerks.

Only rule I have for the channel is that folks treat it like my (or
your) living room and act accordingly. I do not and will not

tolerate

rude / obnoxious people. Enough said.

It's there if folks want a place to chat live, I'm there when I am

up

although I may be doing other things and not notice right away.

Thought it might be a nice resource.

It;s been an exciting day!

Take care, Vikki.

[ ... ]

vikki;
you mentioned that the part you were turning was wood. on a
typical length of wood, because of the growth rings, the density of
the wood fibers will be different. this could result in a somewhat
eliptical circumference. if by chance you took your two measurments,
90 degrees apart from each other, that could explain what has occured.
it's also possible that, depending on species, the grain, thus
density, could ghange along even a short piece of wood. just a couple
of outside the box thoughts that might explain what's gone wrong.

Something I hadn't even though of, but now that you mention it, it
makes much sense.

I wonder if a follower rest would help with that? Probably not as the
elements involved are probably spring rather than flex, right?

Thanks much for adding to my mental toolbox of problem solving tools!

Take care, Vikki (Who has SO much to learn, but having fun getting
there :-)!).

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@...> wrote:

This mod also looks like a really wise idea for a number of reasons:

<>


Hi Vikki,

Just a word of caution.

I thought this was a brilliant idea too and was going to make one. Then
someone posted a negative comment here about it. I can't recall what the
issue was now. Perhaps someone will fess up to the comment? It may have
been the thread pitch being too coarse or something. That's addressable
but I'd look at it closely before taking the LMS sketch at face value.

John

Hi Vikki
Oops, sorry about misspelling your name. I should have paid closer
attention. (I do suffer from ADD and dain bramage.)
6-32 is a good "starter size" because if this size proves to be too
small or weak for the job (at times I've had to put a lot of torque on
the Tee wrench to get everything perfect on a particular job) it will
be very easy to move up to an 8-32 then 10-32 screw size due to the
common thread pitch; however, 6-32 is VERY course which makes this
size one of the more difficult to cut without breaking a tap.
(Breaking a tap will really ruin your day. 10-32 will prove to be a
much easier size to tap without breakage. That said, cast iron tends
to be an easy material to tap. If you go with 10-32 you'll soon
discover that your 4mm metric Tee driver fits the screw head better
than the 5/32" wrench that 10-32 SHCS's were designed to take.)
Remember that stainless "steel" really isn't steel (it's stainless
iron) and not as strong as your standard black (usually grade 5 or 8)
SHCS's. This is especially true of common 300 series (non-magnetic)
stainless fasteners.
I've never done a camlock conversion although this particular
upgrade will make life much easier. Instead I simply cut a 17mm
combination wrench in two. I use the box end (which is slightly
offset) for tightening my tailstock nut. (My tailstock nut is a 10mm
acorn nut.) The offset box end combined with the acorn nut makes
adjustments "fairly" easy. I was all set to make life much easier and
convert to a camlock but before this happened (I kept putting it off)
I had occasion to drill some very large holes using the tailstock
chuck. I discovered that unless the tailstock base nut was VERY tight,
I would get some tailstock movement/slipage. You can get the tailstock
locked down much tighter using a wrench. (The threading on the base
screw gives you more mechanical advantage than a cam.) If you never
drill holes larger than 1/2", slippage shouldn't be much of a concern
with a camlock. Trying to tighten the tailstock with a straight open
end wrench (like the one that came with the lathe) WILL drive you nuts
quickly. The reason the camlock is so popular is not becasue it saves
your wrist and hand but because it's SO much more accessable. You
don't have to worry about those tricky tightenings when you have to
work around (under) the cross slide dial. This is where having an
offset 12 point box wrench makes things easier but not quite as easy
as a camlock.
I would only make the LMS tailstock adjuster (your included link)
if I had to often offset the tailstock to cut long tapers. This
modification will make it much easier to move the tailstock by minute
amounts but you'll still have to cut test pieces to make sure your
adjustment is perfect. Of course once you get the tailstock adjusted
to zero taper (using any method), you'll likely want to mark the upper
and lower parts of the tailstock (straight chisel mark, two punch
marks or a scribed line) so you can get back to zero (or near zero)
quicker if you do offset the tailstock to cut a long taper. Unless you
need as much space as possible between centers it will be much easier
to do longer tapers (i.e. too long to use the compound) by mounting a
boring head in the tailstock.

Bruce

The adjuster could be modified to use a differential screw adjustment
External thread the adjuster nut to a 24 pitch and get an ~96 pitch movement (or 40 pitch for a 160 pitch movement)

Aaron

G'day John, Vikki.
I think I may have raised the issue of the coarseness of the LMS
mod..

If you do the mod using a 6mm screw then the thread pitch is 1.0mm.
One turn of the nut/screw moves the TS 1mm or 40thou. Add in backlash
in the nut, screw and bracket and you are left with a very touchy
adjustment.
If you put the adjuster in the back access is restricted by the cam
lock modification. If you put it on the front it risks fouling the
compound slide.

Lathes like the Southbend (and the Hercuses I know) have screws on
opposite sides of the TS foot which engage a tongue in the TS body
(or is it the other way round). Tightening these screws against each
other gives a very fine adjustment because you use the spring in the
screws and naturally takes out the backlash.

I have looked at an adaption of the the LMS mod to use two nuts which
tighten against the bracket, the problem is access restrictions
caused by the cam lock.

Here is a case where I would be happy to be proved wrong!

BTW; LMS have again served me well, goods arrived in under 7 working
days from US to Oz.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "born4something" <ajs@...>
wrote:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@> wrote:

This mod also looks like a really wise idea for a number of

reasons:

<>


Hi Vikki,

Just a word of caution.

I thought this was a brilliant idea too and was going to make one.

Then

someone posted a negative comment here about it. I can't recall

what the

issue was now. Perhaps someone will fess up to the comment? It may

have

been the thread pitch being too coarse or something. That's

addressable

but I'd look at it closely before taking the LMS sketch at face

value.

John



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day John, Vikki.
I think I may have raised the issue of the coarseness of the LMS
mod..

If you do the mod using a 6mm screw then the thread pitch is 1.0mm.
One turn of the nut/screw moves the TS 1mm or 40thou. Add in backlash
in the nut, screw and bracket and you are left with a very touchy
adjustment.

Touchier than what I am doing now ?!? Seems it would have to be an
improvement for the front to back adjustment whatever it was. No way
that I can see to do that with the stock arrangement other than screwing
with it until you hit it (been doing that all night :-).

If you put the adjuster in the back access is restricted by the cam
lock modification. If you put it on the front it risks fouling the
compound slide.

I may well hold off on that one until, at least, I get the cam lock in
place and see what I have there.

Lathes like the Southbend (and the Hercuses I know) have screws on
opposite sides of the TS foot which engage a tongue in the TS body
(or is it the other way round). Tightening these screws against each
other gives a very fine adjustment because you use the spring in the
screws and naturally takes out the backlash.

LOL, at the moment I I'm wishing I had one of those ;-)!

I have looked at an adaption of the the LMS mod to use two nuts which
tighten against the bracket, the problem is access restrictions
caused by the cam lock.

Here is a case where I would be happy to be proved wrong!

I'm certainly not going to be the one that does it, I don't think :).

BTW; LMS have again served me well, goods arrived in under 7 working
days from US to Oz.

Done well in getting stuff to me quickly enough too.

I'm been working at getting this under control all evening. I'm about
at the point where I call it good enough, I think.

Got the DI in the chuck reading zero top and bottom and under 0.001 on
the front and back.

Interestingly, measuring from front of the quill (zero) to the back I am
off by about 0.003, seems that with the DI reading I shouldn't have that
?!?

Now to get if off of there and tighten down the SHCS on the bottom
without buggering it :-/. The thought that the Chinese hate us has
occured to me ;-) LOL!

Enough for tonight !

Thanks & take care, Vikki.

Hi Ian, Vikki,

So the old grey matter was on track after all. That's encouraging!

As you say Ian, an M6x1 will move about 40 thou per turn. That's
still more refined than Vikki's mallet method. It's probably fiddly
if you knurl it and turn it by hand but I'd leave a hex head for
tools. Using a spanner (aka wrench) it would be ok. A ratchet driven
socket for big changes and a ring spanner for final setting. At 40
thou per turn a 1 thou adjustment is 9 degrees on the nut. You won't
go much smaller than that.

I suppose you could look for a finer thread and tap but I'm now
thinking it's not too bad. Yes, you do have to do any camlock mods
first!

John



--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@...> wrote:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@>
wrote:

G'day John, Vikki.
I think I may have raised the issue of the coarseness of the LMS
mod..

If you do the mod using a 6mm screw then the thread pitch is

1.0mm.

One turn of the nut/screw moves the TS 1mm or 40thou. Add in

backlash

in the nut, screw and bracket and you are left with a very touchy
adjustment.

Touchier than what I am doing now ?!? Seems it would have to be

an

improvement for the front to back adjustment whatever it was. No

way

that I can see to do that with the stock arrangement other than

screwing

with it until you hit it (been doing that all night :-).

If you put the adjuster in the back access is restricted by the

cam

lock modification. If you put it on the front it risks fouling

the

compound slide.

I may well hold off on that one until, at least, I get the cam

lock in

place and see what I have there.

Lathes like the Southbend (and the Hercuses I know) have screws

on

opposite sides of the TS foot which engage a tongue in the TS

body

(or is it the other way round). Tightening these screws against

each

other gives a very fine adjustment because you use the spring in

the

screws and naturally takes out the backlash.

LOL, at the moment I I'm wishing I had one of those ;-)!

I have looked at an adaption of the the LMS mod to use two nuts

which

tighten against the bracket, the problem is access restrictions
caused by the cam lock.

Here is a case where I would be happy to be proved wrong!

I'm certainly not going to be the one that does it, I don't

think :).

BTW; LMS have again served me well, goods arrived in under 7

working

days from US to Oz.

Done well in getting stuff to me quickly enough too.

I'm been working at getting this under control all evening. I'm

about

at the point where I call it good enough, I think.

Got the DI in the chuck reading zero top and bottom and under

0.001 on

the front and back.

Interestingly, measuring from front of the quill (zero) to the

back I am

off by about 0.003, seems that with the DI reading I shouldn't

have that

?!?

Now to get if off of there and tighten down the SHCS on the bottom
without buggering it :-/. The thought that the Chinese hate us has
occured to me ;-) LOL!

Enough for tonight !

Thanks & take care, Vikki.

If you do the mod using a 6mm screw then the thread pitch is 1.0mm.
One turn of the nut/screw moves the TS 1mm or 40thou. Add in backlash
in the nut, screw and bracket and you are left with a very touchy
adjustment.

John's (gadgetbuilder's) practice of using shims between the bar and
tailstock base greatly reduces the touchiness of this adjustment. If
you look at his adjuster, at first it looks like the one pictured LMS.
But if you read the text, you'll see that the centre screw is
threaded into the tailstock's base. Shims are inserted between the
bar and the base and the screw is tightened, drawing the base and the
body of the tailstock together. This works really well as you simply
get the alignment close, then tighten the centre screw to dial in the
last ten-thousandths before locking the base.

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the response!

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Bruce Leo Hartmann"
<goodsnout@...> wrote:

Hi Vikki
Oops, sorry about misspelling your name. I should have paid closer
attention. (I do suffer from ADD and dain bramage.)

LOL, anything but late for chow :). I probably didn't notice for the
same reasons ;-).

6-32 is a good "starter size" because if this size proves to be too
small or weak for the job (at times I've had to put a lot of torque on
the Tee wrench to get everything perfect on a particular job) it will
be very easy to move up to an 8-32 then 10-32 screw size due to the
common thread pitch; however, 6-32 is VERY course which makes this
size one of the more difficult to cut without breaking a tap.

10-32 sound like a better idea, I just had some of the stainless 6-32s
from an antenna project left over. No real biggie to go get some at the
local Ace Hardware.

(Breaking a tap will really ruin your day. 10-32 will prove to be a
much easier size to tap without breakage. That said, cast iron tends
to be an easy material to tap.

I'll be gentle :-). Actually, I am still leery of hacking into the
machine, but getting more open about it over this whole tailstock
experience. Hopefully doing the cam lock mod will get me over it.

If you go with 10-32 you'll soon
discover that your 4mm metric Tee driver fits the screw head better
than the 5/32" wrench that 10-32 SHCS's were designed to take.)
Remember that stainless "steel" really isn't steel (it's stainless
iron) and not as strong as your standard black (usually grade 5 or 8)
SHCS's. This is especially true of common 300 series (non-magnetic)
stainless fasteners.

Not sure what Ace has (easiest to get to in the traffic quagmire in
Seattle), but will check.

I've never done a camlock conversion although this particular
upgrade will make life much easier. Instead I simply cut a 17mm
combination wrench in two. I use the box end (which is slightly
offset) for tightening my tailstock nut. (My tailstock nut is a 10mm
acorn nut.) The offset box end combined with the acorn nut makes
adjustments "fairly" easy. I was all set to make life much easier and
convert to a camlock but before this happened (I kept putting it off)
I had occasion to drill some very large holes using the tailstock
chuck. I discovered that unless the tailstock base nut was VERY tight,
I would get some tailstock movement/slipage. You can get the tailstock
locked down much tighter using a wrench. (The threading on the base
screw gives you more mechanical advantage than a cam.) If you never
drill holes larger than 1/2", slippage shouldn't be much of a concern
with a camlock.

I don't have a drill bit bigger than 1/2" and if I did I'd have nothing
to hold it :-(. I figure for anything bigger I use boring bars.

Trying to tighten the tailstock with a straight open
end wrench (like the one that came with the lathe) WILL drive you nuts
quickly.

Noticed that :-), but it was a short trip from where I was :). I've
got a 17mm combination on there and if it was cut in half it would
indeed be much more tolerable (only "good" one I have).

The reason the camlock is so popular is not becasue it saves
your wrist and hand but because it's SO much more accessable. You
don't have to worry about those tricky tightenings when you have to
work around (under) the cross slide dial. This is where having an
offset 12 point box wrench makes things easier but not quite as easy
as a camlock.

Sigh, so many variables here. Possibly to remove the cam lock and use
the nut in anything critical I would think. Better an occasional PITA
than a full time one :).

I would only make the LMS tailstock adjuster (your included link)
if I had to often offset the tailstock to cut long tapers. This
modification will make it much easier to move the tailstock by minute
amounts but you'll still have to cut test pieces to make sure your
adjustment is perfect. Of course once you get the tailstock adjusted
to zero taper (using any method), you'll likely want to mark the upper
and lower parts of the tailstock (straight chisel mark, two punch
marks or a scribed line) so you can get back to zero (or near zero)
quicker if you do offset the tailstock to cut a long taper.

So far I have no need / desire to cut tapers (I seem to be doing it just
fine though LOL), but I am sure that can change although just what that
would be for I have no idea at the moment.

I got the thing aligned last night (I think), zero top and bottom and
around 0.0005 front to rear. It is the ~0.003 I am getting on the quill
outside that perplexes me, would seem that if the DI is showing that
tiny deviation I should not be having the tilt in the quill?!?? Or at
least that much. Perhaps I should mike the outside of the quill to be
sure it is not tapered (slow, but we get there :-).

Now I need to find out what color they used to do touch ups on the
tailstock. Was surprised that the little nylon hammer could chip of
that much paint with so little force :-(.

It has been an exciting exercise in understanding what is going on in 3D
space :).

I put off pulling it out and tightening the lock SHCS on the bottom for
today, I wanted to be sure I was well rested before taking that one on,
I just hope I get it right the first time and don't jar it out and have
to start over, although it will be easier next time :).

Unless you
need as much space as possible between centers it will be much easier
to do longer tapers (i.e. too long to use the compound) by mounting a
boring head in the tailstock.

Err, I thought boring stuff was for inside things? I think I am missing
something here?!?

Thanks & take care, Vikki.

G'day John, Vikki, Bruce et al.
I just ducked out to the shop to check out my TS. It is possible to
do a mod like that suggested but to stand the bracket much further
out from the TS. This will allow easier access for a spanner
(wrench).
IMHO I would screw and lock a stud in the TS foot and make the
adjustment with two nuts, one either side of the bracket. The bracket
could stand out on 25mm spacers to allow spanner access. The grooved
nut of the LMS mod is a nice touch but does not overcome backlash in
the adjustment, opposing nuts would be better in this respect.
My TS cam lock is a bit clunky and probably takes up more space than
the LMS kit. One weakness of my version is that the operating handle
can foul the lever on the quill clamp. Does the LMS mod do this?

Putting the clamping set screw on top is a real plus. Modification to
the locking arrangements are essential for this but don't have to be
a cam lock. I have seen a modified nut comprising a length of Hex
stock turned down at the bottom and threaded to take the bolt. If a
new slipper is made a longer bolt could be used allowing the use of a
standard nut with a spanner. Whatever happens the spanner has to be
either eliminated or raised to clear the head of clamping screw.

TRY THIS. The clamping screw would be accessible from the bottom (up
through the ways) if the slipper didn't get in the way. It would only
be a few minutes work to measure up and drill a hole in the plate to
allow a hex key into the clamping screw. Fiddly but better than doing
nothing.

This should give Vikki something to wake up to!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards
Ian
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "born4something" <ajs@...>
wrote:

Hi Ian, Vikki,

So the old grey matter was on track after all. That's encouraging!

As you say Ian, an M6x1 will move about 40 thou per turn. That's
still more refined than Vikki's mallet method. It's probably fiddly
if you knurl it and turn it by hand but I'd leave a hex head for
tools. Using a spanner (aka wrench) it would be ok. A ratchet

driven

socket for big changes and a ring spanner for final setting. At 40
thou per turn a 1 thou adjustment is 9 degrees on the nut. You

won't

go much smaller than that.

I suppose you could look for a finer thread and tap but I'm now
thinking it's not too bad. Yes, you do have to do any camlock mods
first!

John



--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@> wrote:

Now to get if off of there and tighten down the SHCS on the bottom
without buggering it :-/. The thought that the Chinese hate us

has

occured to me ;-) LOL!

Enough for tonight !

Thanks & take care, Vikki.

Vikki,

These aren't very expensive machines :-) and replacement parts are
easily available from < www.littleMachine Shop.com >. An early modification
to mine was the cam on the tail stock, it makes working much much more
pleasant. Inspired by the tail stock cam I bought premium plans from <
> for a compound cam lock. A VERY
nice modification, haven't used it enough to determine if JWE's moving of
the pivot point really does reduce chatter, but it does increase the cross
slide range.
As much as I really like to modify my toys the time spent has been a
worthwhile investment for actual paying jobs. Keep at it, sounds like you
are having as much fun a I am.

Jeff.

* REPLY SEPARATOR *

<SNIP>

I'll be gentle :-). Actually, I am still leery of hacking into the
machine, but getting more open about it over this whole tailstock
experience. Hopefully doing the cam lock mod will get me over it.

<SNIP>
-
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing


jdemand@...
-

Hi Paul,

Yes, I saw GadgetBuilder's one. As he says, he doesn't have much
need for offsetting to turn tapers so he designed it primarily for
adjusting to zero offset. That's a different gadget.

John


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Paul Moir" <paul.moir@...>
wrote:

If you do the mod using a 6mm screw then the thread pitch is

1.0mm.

One turn of the nut/screw moves the TS 1mm or 40thou. Add in

backlash

in the nut, screw and bracket and you are left with a very

touchy

adjustment.

John's (gadgetbuilder's) practice of using shims between the bar

and

tailstock base greatly reduces the touchiness of this adjustment.

If

you look at his adjuster, at first it looks like the one pictured

LMS.

But if you read the text, you'll see that the centre screw is
threaded into the tailstock's base. Shims are inserted between the
bar and the base and the screw is tightened, drawing the base and

the

body of the tailstock together. This works really well as you

simply

get the alignment close, then tighten the centre screw to dial in

the

last ten-thousandths before locking the base.

Another approach to aligning the TS is to turn a test bar between
centers to measure the misalignment, then adjust the TS off the
lathe. Unlike on larger machines popping the TS off is effortless
and it allows access to the underside locking screw. To move it
controllably, use a depth mic (or a depth base on a dial caliper) to
measure the original position of the upper part relative to the
base. With a measuring tool involved it's easy to get it into final
position without having to make an adjuster.

The boring head is used to hold a short center an easily adjustable
distance away from the lathe centerline for taper turning without
disturbing the TS adjustment. The downside is losing a couple of
inches of working length on the lathe.

Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@...> wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the response!

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Bruce Leo Hartmann"
<goodsnout@> wrote:

Hi Vikki
Oops, sorry about misspelling your name. I should have paid

closer

attention. (I do suffer from ADD and dain bramage.)

LOL, anything but late for chow :). I probably didn't notice for

the

same reasons ;-).

6-32 is a good "starter size" because if this size proves to be

too

small or weak for the job (at times I've had to put a lot of

torque on

the Tee wrench to get everything perfect on a particular job) it

will

be very easy to move up to an 8-32 then 10-32 screw size due to

the

common thread pitch; however, 6-32 is VERY course which makes this
size one of the more difficult to cut without breaking a tap.

10-32 sound like a better idea, I just had some of the stainless 6-

32s

from an antenna project left over. No real biggie to go get some

at the

local Ace Hardware.

(Breaking a tap will really ruin your day. 10-32 will prove to be

a

much easier size to tap without breakage. That said, cast iron

tends

to be an easy material to tap.

I'll be gentle :-). Actually, I am still leery of hacking into the
machine, but getting more open about it over this whole tailstock
experience. Hopefully doing the cam lock mod will get me over it.

If you go with 10-32 you'll soon
discover that your 4mm metric Tee driver fits the screw head

better

than the 5/32" wrench that 10-32 SHCS's were designed to take.)
Remember that stainless "steel" really isn't steel (it's stainless
iron) and not as strong as your standard black (usually grade 5

or 8)

SHCS's. This is especially true of common 300 series (non-

magnetic)

stainless fasteners.

Not sure what Ace has (easiest to get to in the traffic quagmire in
Seattle), but will check.

I've never done a camlock conversion although this particular
upgrade will make life much easier. Instead I simply cut a 17mm
combination wrench in two. I use the box end (which is slightly
offset) for tightening my tailstock nut. (My tailstock nut is a

10mm

acorn nut.) The offset box end combined with the acorn nut makes
adjustments "fairly" easy. I was all set to make life much easier

and

convert to a camlock but before this happened (I kept putting it

off)

I had occasion to drill some very large holes using the tailstock
chuck. I discovered that unless the tailstock base nut was VERY

tight,

I would get some tailstock movement/slipage. You can get the

tailstock

locked down much tighter using a wrench. (The threading on the

base

screw gives you more mechanical advantage than a cam.) If you

never

drill holes larger than 1/2", slippage shouldn't be much of a

concern

with a camlock.

I don't have a drill bit bigger than 1/2" and if I did I'd have

nothing

to hold it :-(. I figure for anything bigger I use boring bars.

Trying to tighten the tailstock with a straight open
end wrench (like the one that came with the lathe) WILL drive you

nuts

quickly.

Noticed that :-), but it was a short trip from where I was :).

I've

got a 17mm combination on there and if it was cut in half it would
indeed be much more tolerable (only "good" one I have).

The reason the camlock is so popular is not becasue it saves
your wrist and hand but because it's SO much more accessable. You
don't have to worry about those tricky tightenings when you have

to

work around (under) the cross slide dial. This is where having an
offset 12 point box wrench makes things easier but not quite as

easy

as a camlock.

Sigh, so many variables here. Possibly to remove the cam lock and

use

the nut in anything critical I would think. Better an occasional

PITA

than a full time one :).

I would only make the LMS tailstock adjuster (your included

link)

if I had to often offset the tailstock to cut long tapers. This
modification will make it much easier to move the tailstock by

minute

amounts but you'll still have to cut test pieces to make sure your
adjustment is perfect. Of course once you get the tailstock

adjusted

to zero taper (using any method), you'll likely want to mark the

upper

and lower parts of the tailstock (straight chisel mark, two punch
marks or a scribed line) so you can get back to zero (or near

zero)

quicker if you do offset the tailstock to cut a long taper.

So far I have no need / desire to cut tapers (I seem to be doing it

just

fine though LOL), but I am sure that can change although just what

that

would be for I have no idea at the moment.

I got the thing aligned last night (I think), zero top and bottom

and

around 0.0005 front to rear. It is the ~0.003 I am getting on the

quill

outside that perplexes me, would seem that if the DI is showing that
tiny deviation I should not be having the tilt in the quill?!?? Or

at

least that much. Perhaps I should mike the outside of the quill to

be

sure it is not tapered (slow, but we get there :-).

Now I need to find out what color they used to do touch ups on the
tailstock. Was surprised that the little nylon hammer could chip of
that much paint with so little force :-(.

It has been an exciting exercise in understanding what is going on

in 3D

space :).

I put off pulling it out and tightening the lock SHCS on the bottom

for

today, I wanted to be sure I was well rested before taking that one

on,

I just hope I get it right the first time and don't jar it out and

have

to start over, although it will be easier next time :).

Unless you
need as much space as possible between centers it will be much

easier

to do longer tapers (i.e. too long to use the compound) by

mounting a

boring head in the tailstock.

Err, I thought boring stuff was for inside things? I think I am

missing

something here?!?

Thanks & take care, Vikki.

Hi Roy,

Combining these ideas, an offset adjuster as detailed at LMS could
be made with a graduated scale as well as provision for a socket
wrench on the end. Say an M6x1 bolt and major graduations every 9
degrees, minor ones every 0.9 degrees if you're keen. Then you turn
a bit at each end of a test bar and mike it to determine the current
offset, tweak the adjuster using the graduated scale and eureka! Of
course, you'de re-check with the test bar the first few times at
least...

John


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "roylowenthal"
<roylowenthal@...> wrote:

Another approach to aligning the TS is to turn a test bar between
centers to measure the misalignment, then adjust the TS off the
lathe. Unlike on larger machines popping the TS off is effortless
and it allows access to the underside locking screw. To move it
controllably, use a depth mic (or a depth base on a dial caliper)

to

measure the original position of the upper part relative to the
base. With a measuring tool involved it's easy to get it into

final

position without having to make an adjuster.

The boring head is used to hold a short center an easily

adjustable

distance away from the lathe centerline for taper turning without
disturbing the TS adjustment. The downside is losing a couple of
inches of working length on the lathe.

Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "wrlabs" <wrlabs@> wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the response!

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Bruce Leo Hartmann"
<goodsnout@> wrote:

Hi Vikki
Oops, sorry about misspelling your name. I should have paid

closer

attention. (I do suffer from ADD and dain bramage.)

LOL, anything but late for chow :). I probably didn't notice

for

the

same reasons ;-).

6-32 is a good "starter size" because if this size proves to

be

too

small or weak for the job (at times I've had to put a lot of

torque on

the Tee wrench to get everything perfect on a particular job)

it

will

be very easy to move up to an 8-32 then 10-32 screw size due

to

the

common thread pitch; however, 6-32 is VERY course which makes

this

size one of the more difficult to cut without breaking a tap.

10-32 sound like a better idea, I just had some of the stainless

6-

32s

from an antenna project left over. No real biggie to go get

some

at the

local Ace Hardware.

(Breaking a tap will really ruin your day. 10-32 will prove to

be

a

much easier size to tap without breakage. That said, cast iron

tends

to be an easy material to tap.

I'll be gentle :-). Actually, I am still leery of hacking into

the

machine, but getting more open about it over this whole tailstock
experience. Hopefully doing the cam lock mod will get me over

it.

If you go with 10-32 you'll soon
discover that your 4mm metric Tee driver fits the screw head

better

than the 5/32" wrench that 10-32 SHCS's were designed to take.)
Remember that stainless "steel" really isn't steel (it's

stainless

iron) and not as strong as your standard black (usually grade

5

or 8)

SHCS's. This is especially true of common 300 series (non-

magnetic)

stainless fasteners.

Not sure what Ace has (easiest to get to in the traffic quagmire

in

Seattle), but will check.

I've never done a camlock conversion although this

particular

upgrade will make life much easier. Instead I simply cut a 17mm
combination wrench in two. I use the box end (which is slightly
offset) for tightening my tailstock nut. (My tailstock nut is

a

10mm

acorn nut.) The offset box end combined with the acorn nut

makes

adjustments "fairly" easy. I was all set to make life much

easier

and

convert to a camlock but before this happened (I kept putting

it

off)

I had occasion to drill some very large holes using the

tailstock

chuck. I discovered that unless the tailstock base nut was

VERY

tight,

I would get some tailstock movement/slipage. You can get the

tailstock

locked down much tighter using a wrench. (The threading on the

base

screw gives you more mechanical advantage than a cam.) If you

never

drill holes larger than 1/2", slippage shouldn't be much of a

concern

with a camlock.

I don't have a drill bit bigger than 1/2" and if I did I'd have

nothing

to hold it :-(. I figure for anything bigger I use boring bars.

Trying to tighten the tailstock with a straight open
end wrench (like the one that came with the lathe) WILL drive

you

nuts

quickly.

Noticed that :-), but it was a short trip from where I was :).

I've

got a 17mm combination on there and if it was cut in half it

would

indeed be much more tolerable (only "good" one I have).

The reason the camlock is so popular is not becasue it saves
your wrist and hand but because it's SO much more accessable.

You

don't have to worry about those tricky tightenings when you

have

to

work around (under) the cross slide dial. This is where having

an

offset 12 point box wrench makes things easier but not quite

as

easy

as a camlock.

Sigh, so many variables here. Possibly to remove the cam lock

and

use

the nut in anything critical I would think. Better an

occasional

PITA

than a full time one :).

I would only make the LMS tailstock adjuster (your included

link)

if I had to often offset the tailstock to cut long tapers. This
modification will make it much easier to move the tailstock by

minute

amounts but you'll still have to cut test pieces to make sure

your

adjustment is perfect. Of course once you get the tailstock

adjusted

to zero taper (using any method), you'll likely want to mark

the

upper

and lower parts of the tailstock (straight chisel mark, two

punch

marks or a scribed line) so you can get back to zero (or near

zero)

quicker if you do offset the tailstock to cut a long taper.

So far I have no need / desire to cut tapers (I seem to be doing

it

just

fine though LOL), but I am sure that can change although just

what

that

would be for I have no idea at the moment.

I got the thing aligned last night (I think), zero top and

bottom

and

around 0.0005 front to rear. It is the ~0.003 I am getting on

the

quill

outside that perplexes me, would seem that if the DI is showing

that

tiny deviation I should not be having the tilt in the quill?!??

Or

at

least that much. Perhaps I should mike the outside of the quill

to

be

sure it is not tapered (slow, but we get there :-).

Now I need to find out what color they used to do touch ups on

the

tailstock. Was surprised that the little nylon hammer could

chip of

that much paint with so little force :-(.

It has been an exciting exercise in understanding what is going

on

in 3D

space :).

I put off pulling it out and tightening the lock SHCS on the

bottom

for

today, I wanted to be sure I was well rested before taking that

one

on,

I just hope I get it right the first time and don't jar it out

and

have

to start over, although it will be easier next time :).

Unless you
need as much space as possible between centers it will be much

easier

to do longer tapers (i.e. too long to use the compound) by

mounting a

boring head in the tailstock.

Err, I thought boring stuff was for inside things? I think I am

missing

something here?!?

Thanks & take care, Vikki.