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Re: Hello from Yellowknife

 

Tubal cain also has quite a few videos on youtube, covering mostly lathe work but I also think he does some milling videos too...

Actually there are quite a few people posting videos on youtube regarding this hobby :) google is my friend :D


Good reading... umm the 'workshop practice series' of books I personally have found invaluable...

Also websites / forums such as this one and perhaps home model machinist, etc I find handy for finding out different ways of doing things
Re: Pipe threading on a mini lathe ?

 

Buying is often cheaper than making, but it's good to know how to make.

Look up the thread specs of the NPT.? Set your lathe and cut that thread on the, but straight rather than tapered.? Now use a pipe-thread die to finish the job - creating the taper.? Since much of the cutting is already done, this is much easier.? It may or may not produce cleaner threads -- that all depends upon your pipe die.

BTW, tapping and threading are typically involve reversing the direction to clear chips.? There are taps and dies than can cut in one pass, but the common ones for hand use will not do so.? Get the die started turning CW, oil well, turn 1/6-1/4 turn, reverse (clearing chips with a brush if necessary), advance the die CW till it halts, then repeat until done.? Failing to clear the chips when using such taps and dies will break the tap or die.

On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Alan Muller <alan@...> wrote:

Of course, you can set up the die in a lathe.? But there is a lot of torque involved in pipe threading--it's a brute force sort of thing.? Not likely to be easy on the machine.? Might make sense for really small sizes.....



--
Bruce
NJ
Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable releases where else are tapered pipe threads used?

MERTON B BAKER
 

The famous Model T Ford had 1/2" pipe threaded sparkplugs. The plumber's
diestock I have has 2' long handles on it, and is not at al hard to turn.

Mert

-----Original Message-----
From: 7x12minilathe@...
[mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of fd042@...
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:23 PM
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable
releases where else are tapered pipe threads used?






Old flywheel style single cylinder gasoline farm engines mostly used 1/2"
pipe threaded spark plugs. (Made after the low tention spark-points in the
cylinder chamber, & before the high speed air cooled engines that became
common after WWII) Tapered threads do not give a seal unless used with pipe
dope or Teflon tape. (& other sealing methods I don't know about); Regular
threading (no taper) up to a flange & gasket is the modern norm for spark
plugs; the threads locate it, the flange & a gasket seals it. (& you can use
dope/whatever on the threads to be really sure of a seal if you want.) I am
not clear as to your need/use of tapered pipe threading...It is traditional
for iron plumbing, cheap; & for installations that are semi-permenant, IE
not have to be taken apart for a long time. Pipe thread taps & dies work
with a straight pipe, both outside & inside size; IE no previous taper
machining is needed. These taps & dies have their own built in taper, & will
do the work themselves, albeit W/ a lot of effort, either by hand, or a pipe
threading motor; but not a small lathe. Seems to me (here in Maine USA) that
these threading procedures are better done by hand, with a die/ or tap, &
only useing a lathe manually to mount/locate thease tools to get better
accuracy.


-----Original Message-----
>From: Roy
>Sent: Nov 11, 2012 8:38 PM
>To: 7x12minilathe@...
>Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable releases
where else are tapered pipe threads used?
>
>With an OD of 5/16" it's 1/16" NPT. Both 1/16" & 1/8" NPT are 27 tpi.
>
>Straight pipe threads are used for electrical stuff; conduit fittings are
threaded NPS as are lamp parts.
>
>Roy
>
>--- In 7x12minilathe@..., ToolRoomTrustee@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> Classical meter wheel and four dial counter blocks from KAHLSICO.
>>
>> In my 28 year working life on National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
Research ships as an oceanographic
>> technician I often had to deal with the devices that measured amount of
cable going out (and hopefully coming back!).
>>
>> The technology of the times late 60s to mid 90s (in my career) used a
stainless steel grooved wheel with a nominal circumference of
>> one meter that was suspended from a gantry or A-frame to allow working
room for instrument packages. The wheel used a cable
>> similar to a speedometer cable to connect to a mechanical contrivance
with four dials to cover units, tens, 100s and thousands of
>> meters. The meter wheel and four dial block used male threads to
connect to female threads on end fittings of the connecting cable.
>> I was essentialy self taught on the job with my own Unimat at first
then later got some end of fiscal year money to buy a Unimat for
>> my department. I determined that the threads were 5/16-24 which is a
National Extra Fine so got a die and taps through govt supply
>> system. Much later found that it was actually a ?x27 pipe thread. The
NEF tap did work.
>> My conjecture is that the NPT was used so the connections could be put
on tight.
>>
>> Anyway, my query here is if anyone else has some examples of where pipe
threads are used but not on pipes.
>>
>> Larry Murray
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Re: Pipe threading on a mini lathe ?

Michael Taglieri
 

Actually, you can, somewhat. I think in Lathe Handbook #1 (one of the
old-time machinist lathe-tips books I got from Lindsay Publications),
someone with a similar problem cut taper threads by cutting the taper, then
using a spring-loaded threading tool. It used a wheel beside the tool that
rolled on the threads and was adjustable to control the depth of cut.

Mike Taglieri miket_nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy" <roylowenthal@...>
To: <7x12minilathe@...>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 9:39 PM
Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Pipe threading on a mini lathe ?


You can use the compound to cut the taper with no problem; what you can't
do is cut threads on a taper without a taper attachment.

Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Chris Bailey <cbailey73160@...>
wrote:

You can also use a protractor to adjust the compound to get VERY close.
This one is CHEAP but surprisingly accurate.



Chris


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Roy <roylowenthal@...> wrote:

**


You need a taper attachment to cut a truly accurate tapered thread.
Considering their uses, that's almost an oxymoron! Without a taper
attachment, the work-around is to cut a stepped thread & refine it into
a
tapered thread either by finishing it with a pipe die or lots of
fiddling
with thread files.

Roy


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "olduhfguy" <phbrush@> wrote:

I have seen a couple of articles on a taper turning attachment for a
mini lathe. It appears the makers are using it primarily to make Morse
taper shanks. Is this the only acceptable way to cut tapered (NPT) pipe
threads ? If that is the case I would be better off to stick with
machines
that are designed to cut pipe threads, but I thought I would ask since
the
quality that comes out of most threading machines leaves something to
be
desired by machinists standards. Thanks !




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable releases where else are tapered pipe threads used?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
Old flywheel style single cylinder gasoline farm engines mostly used 1/2" pipe threaded spark plugs. (Made after the low tention spark-points in the cylinder chamber, & before the high speed air cooled engines that became common after WWII) Tapered threads do not give a seal unless used with pipe dope or Teflon tape. (& other sealing methods I don't know about); Regular threading (no taper) up to a flange & gasket is the modern norm for spark plugs; the threads locate it, the flange & a gasket seals it. (& you can use dope/whatever on the threads to be really sure of a seal if you want.) I am not clear as to your need/use of tapered pipe threading...It is traditional for iron plumbing, cheap; & for installations that are semi-permenant, IE not have to be taken apart for a long time. Pipe thread taps & dies work with a straight pipe, both outside & inside size; IE no previous taper machining is needed. These taps & dies have their own built in taper, & will do the work themselves, albeit W/ a lot of effort, either by hand, or a pipe threading motor; but not a small lathe. Seems to me (here in Maine USA) that these threading procedures are better done by hand, with a die/ or tap, & only useing a lathe manually to mount/locate thease tools to get better accuracy.


-----Original Message-----
>From: Roy
>Sent: Nov 11, 2012 8:38 PM
>To: 7x12minilathe@...
>Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable releases where else are tapered pipe threads used?
>
>With an OD of 5/16" it's 1/16" NPT. Both 1/16" & 1/8" NPT are 27 tpi.
>
>Straight pipe threads are used for electrical stuff; conduit fittings are threaded NPS as are lamp parts.
>
>Roy
>
>--- In 7x12minilathe@..., ToolRoomTrustee@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> Classical meter wheel and four dial counter blocks from KAHLSICO.
>>
>> In my 28 year working life on National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Research ships as an oceanographic
>> technician I often had to deal with the devices that measured amount of cable going out (and hopefully coming back!).
>>
>> The technology of the times late 60s to mid 90s (in my career) used a stainless steel grooved wheel with a nominal circumference of
>> one meter that was suspended from a gantry or A-frame to allow working room for instrument packages. The wheel used a cable
>> similar to a speedometer cable to connect to a mechanical contrivance with four dials to cover units, tens, 100s and thousands of
>> meters. The meter wheel and four dial block used male threads to connect to female threads on end fittings of the connecting cable.
>> I was essentialy self taught on the job with my own Unimat at first then later got some end of fiscal year money to buy a Unimat for
>> my department. I determined that the threads were 5/16-24 which is a National Extra Fine so got a die and taps through govt supply
>> system. Much later found that it was actually a ?x27 pipe thread. The NEF tap did work.
>> My conjecture is that the NPT was used so the connections could be put on tight.
>>
>> Anyway, my query here is if anyone else has some examples of where pipe threads are used but not on pipes.
>>
>> Larry Murray
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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Re: Hello from Yellowknife

R Thompson
 

Thanks Roy,

and they're free too :-) I'll take advantage of these.

Ron

On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 01:46 +0000, Roy wrote:

MIT has produced a pretty good set of videos to help prevent rust
damage (from student blood) to their shop machines:



Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "ve8rt" <ve8rt@...> wrote:

I'm new and here is my brief intro.
My name is Ron, I'm and amateur radio operator (VE8RT) in
Yellowknife, NWT, Canada. Its been a few decades since I had a machine
shop class in high school, but my employer has an antique lathe that I
can use, and a newer vertical mill that they would also let me try.

If I can do it safely, I'd like to catch up on forgotten skills, and
learn a few new ones, to build some personal projects. To that end I'm
looking for advice, including recommended reading or videos, for
beginning metalworking.

At this time I do not have the space at home for even my drill
press, which is in the shed in the back. Perhaps if we move into a
place with more space when I retire (a few years away) I'll set up a
personal shop.

Ron
Re: Hello from Yellowknife

 

MIT has produced a pretty good set of videos to help prevent rust damage (from student blood) to their shop machines:



Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "ve8rt" <ve8rt@...> wrote:

I'm new and here is my brief intro.
My name is Ron, I'm and amateur radio operator (VE8RT) in Yellowknife, NWT, Canada. Its been a few decades since I had a machine shop class in high school, but my employer has an antique lathe that I can use, and a newer vertical mill that they would also let me try.

If I can do it safely, I'd like to catch up on forgotten skills, and learn a few new ones, to build some personal projects. To that end I'm looking for advice, including recommended reading or videos, for beginning metalworking.

At this time I do not have the space at home for even my drill press, which is in the shed in the back. Perhaps if we move into a place with more space when I retire (a few years away) I'll set up a personal shop.

Ron
Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable releases where else are tapered pipe threads used?

 

With an OD of 5/16" it's 1/16" NPT. Both 1/16" & 1/8" NPT are 27 tpi.

Straight pipe threads are used for electrical stuff; conduit fittings are threaded NPS as are lamp parts.

Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., ToolRoomTrustee@... wrote:


Classical meter wheel and four dial counter blocks from KAHLSICO.

In my 28 year working life on National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Research ships as an oceanographic
technician I often had to deal with the devices that measured amount of cable going out (and hopefully coming back!).

The technology of the times late 60s to mid 90s (in my career) used a stainless steel grooved wheel with a nominal circumference of
one meter that was suspended from a gantry or A-frame to allow working room for instrument packages. The wheel used a cable
similar to a speedometer cable to connect to a mechanical contrivance with four dials to cover units, tens, 100s and thousands of
meters. The meter wheel and four dial block used male threads to connect to female threads on end fittings of the connecting cable.
I was essentialy self taught on the job with my own Unimat at first then later got some end of fiscal year money to buy a Unimat for
my department. I determined that the threads were 5/16-24 which is a National Extra Fine so got a die and taps through govt supply
system. Much later found that it was actually a ?x27 pipe thread. The NEF tap did work.
My conjecture is that the NPT was used so the connections could be put on tight.

Anyway, my query here is if anyone else has some examples of where pipe threads are used but not on pipes.

Larry Murray
Hello from Yellowknife

ve8rt
 

I'm new and here is my brief intro.
My name is Ron, I'm and amateur radio operator (VE8RT) in Yellowknife, NWT, Canada. Its been a few decades since I had a machine shop class in high school, but my employer has an antique lathe that I can use, and a newer vertical mill that they would also let me try.

If I can do it safely, I'd like to catch up on forgotten skills, and learn a few new ones, to build some personal projects. To that end I'm looking for advice, including recommended reading or videos, for beginning metalworking.

At this time I do not have the space at home for even my drill press, which is in the shed in the back. Perhaps if we move into a place with more space when I retire (a few years away) I'll set up a personal shop.

Ron
Re: Keyway Broach

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

It was either last week's cold in the nose or hitting the adjacent key, Malcolm.
?
Very versatile; I hadn't thought of keyways in?tapers.
?
Andy
?
To: 7x12minilathe@...
From: mparkerlisberg@...
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 06:45:24 -0800
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Keyway Broach

?
Andy or Abdy as you signed your self recently

As the tool pivots on the cross slide mount you can cut a keyway slot in tapered shaft or hole.

Malcolm
?
I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.

From: andyf1108
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:08 PM
Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Keyway Broach

?
An excellent video, Malcolm.

I suppose your tool can be used to broach the corresponding keyway into a shaft, provided there isn't so much sticking out of the chuck that flex becomes a problem.

Andy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
>
> That tends to be expensive tooling.
> Lowest cost, mount a cutter in the lathe toolpost, lock the spindle and wind the saddle backwards and forwards, or make an attachment for your lathe like this, see:
Re: Thread Protector

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

WAM wrote......Ok... my earlier link had the same info as this ?
Second page show 1/2 - 28.........
?
And this gives quite a few different thread types, but some pages may need translating -

Cheers.
?????? Ellis
Re: Thread Protector

 

So does this:




Ellis Cory wrote:

Roy wrote........The easy way to figure the size is by subtracting 1/TPI from the nominal thread diameter.........

As I mentioned in my post, this is only accurate for 60 deg threads. For those of us on this side of the pond, it doesn't work. But it can be used as an approximation, where the 'fit' is not too important.
Cheers.
Ellis
Re: Thread Protector

 

Ok... my earlier link had the same info as this:


Second page show 1/2 - 28




Ellis Cory wrote:

Roy wrote........The easy way to figure the size is by subtracting 1/TPI from the nominal thread diameter.........

As I mentioned in my post, this is only accurate for 60 deg threads. For those of us on this side of the pond, it doesn't work. But it can be used as an approximation, where the 'fit' is not too important.
Cheers.
Ellis
Re: Keyway Broach

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
 

Andy or Abdy as you signed your self recently

As the tool pivots on the cross slide mount you can cut a keyway slot in tapered shaft or hole.

Malcolm
?
I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.

From: andyf1108
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:08 PM
Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Keyway Broach

?
An excellent video, Malcolm.

I suppose your tool can be used to broach the corresponding keyway into a shaft, provided there isn't so much sticking out of the chuck that flex becomes a problem.

Andy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
>
> That tends to be expensive tooling.
> Lowest cost, mount a cutter in the lathe toolpost, lock the spindle and wind the saddle backwards and forwards, or make an attachment for your lathe like this, see:
Re: Keyway Broach

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
 

Cost is relative, what price experience gained in making something. If you are experienced and the tool is for a commercial usage, then spending time making something is a false economy, unless of course nobody makes one. If you are a limited funds hobby user then making a tool may be your only option.
My comment on cost was aimed at the sets of keyway broaches that come in at around at $450, or $45 each. To spend that sort of cash on a tool that is only used occasionally seems to be a false economy.? To add a new keyway cutter to the set I have costs next to nothing being a small piece of HSS lathe tool or broken twist drill. The tool was constructed from a lost foam alloy casting, cast iron bearings made from a sash weight, electrical conduit for the handle and the rest from my scrap bin. The cost was in the time invested. It takes about 1 minuet to cut a keyway in delrin, excluding set up time and about 3 mins in steel..?
As Bruce commented it could be automated with a stroking air cylinder, or a by using a windscreen wiper motor to give a light duty planing machine.

Malcolm


?
I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.

From: iamcruzinincognito
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:00 AM
Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Keyway Broach

?


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
>
> That tends to be expensive tooling.
> Lowest cost, mount a cutter in the lathe toolpost, lock the spindle and wind the saddle backwards and forwards, or make an attachment for your lathe like this, see:
> <>
>
> Malcolm

Intereszting video... How long did it take to cut the slot on the (delrin?) gear?
What would the cost of making the lathe spindle lock, and the broaching tool holder cost?

I guess if you consider spending $100 - $150 on an a cheap chinese arbor press expensive then I suppose it is... Personally I would consider it an investment in tooling up...

I have found from personal experience that sometimes in this hobby, its simply a better end reszult to buy something made for the job at hand than it is to codge up something, unless its a 1 off...

Making your own press could be done a bit cheaper than buying one if you have the skills...

@Paul yes I agree he should have that arbor press bolted to az bench indeed...

My intention was only to show the OP how broaching is actually done because from his initial post it sounded (to me at least) that he was not sure how to go about using the broach...

Yes the video drags out a bit but then for those of us (including myself) that have NEVER done broaching before, it explains it quite well...



Re: Keyway Broach

 

An excellent video, Malcolm.

I suppose your tool can be used to broach the corresponding keyway into a shaft, provided there isn't so much sticking out of the chuck that flex becomes a problem.

Andy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:

That tends to be expensive tooling.
Lowest cost, mount a cutter in the lathe toolpost, lock the spindle and wind the saddle backwards and forwards, or make an attachment for your lathe like this, see:
Re: Keyway Broach

 

Very neat.

Now replace the handle with an air cylinder and "automate" the motion so all you do is manage the cutting depth.


On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
?

That tends to be expensive tooling.
Lowest cost, mount a cutter in the lathe toolpost, lock the spindle and wind the saddle backwards and forwards, or make an attachment for your lathe like this, see:
<>

Malcolm

?

--
Bruce
NJ
Re: Aside from pipes and camera cable releases where else are tapered pipe threads used?

MERTON B BAKER
 

The Uni DB/SLs Can be set up to turn tapered pipe threads with the factory
threading att., but only if the pitch needed is one that was supplied by
Emco. Of course one could make a thread master for any pitch desired. It
is also not too difficult to make a treading att. that will cut any thread
pitch desired; tapered or not, but one will have to turn the spindle with a
hand crank.

Mert

-----Original Message-----
From: 7x12minilathe@...
[mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of ToolRoomTrustee@...
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 11:13 PM
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Subject: [7x12minilathe] Aside from pipes and camera cable releases where
else are tapered pipe threads used?





Classical meter wheel and four dial counter blocks from KAHLSICO.

In my 28 year working life on National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
Research ships as an oceanographic
technician I often had to deal with the devices that measured amount of
cable going out (and hopefully coming back!).

The technology of the times late 60s to mid 90s (in my career) used a
stainless steel grooved wheel with a nominal circumference of
one meter that was suspended from a gantry or A-frame to allow working
room for instrument packages. The wheel used a cable
similar to a speedometer cable to connect to a mechanical contrivance with
four dials to cover units, tens, 100s and thousands of
meters. The meter wheel and four dial block used male threads to connect
to female threads on end fittings of the connecting cable.
I was essentialy self taught on the job with my own Unimat at first then
later got some end of fiscal year money to buy a Unimat for
my department. I determined that the threads were 5/16-24 which is a
National Extra Fine so got a die and taps through govt supply
system. Much later found that it was actually a ?x27 pipe thread. The NEF
tap did work.
My conjecture is that the NPT was used so the connections could be put on
tight.

Anyway, my query here is if anyone else has some examples of where pipe
threads are used but not on pipes.

Larry Murray
Re: Cut off grider

MC Cason
 

On 11/10/2012 08:19 PM, Exibar wrote:

anyone else use one of those angle grinders with a cut off wheel on it
to part off pieces inthe lathe? I set the lathe to go very slowly,
and use that grinder's cut off wheel and it produces a really nice
cut.... I have a nice Porter Cable I picked up at Lowes and it's a
treat to use.... goes through 3/8" plate steel like it's butter :-)

anyone else use something like that or does everyone just use a hack
saw to art off large pieces (1/2" or larger suppose)?

just curious :-)

thanks!

Mike B
I have a 6" Metabo slicer, which is specifically designed as a cutoff
saw. it works beautifully on the lathe. place a piece of tin, or other
rigid non-flammable item under the blade, to keep sparks, and grinding
dust off of the ways.

BTW, I bought the Metabo, because it has a clutch, which stops the
blade if it is ever put into a bind. This is something to consider, if
your cut doesn't run true while parting off. A 6" blade, turning at 10
000 rpms, can cause a rather large mess, to whatever (or whomever) is
in it's path when it explodes. I have experience with this, and the
scars to go along with that experience.

--
MC Cason - Assocaite Developer - Eagle3D
Created by: Matthias Wei?er
Re: Thread Protector

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Roy wrote........The easy way to figure the size is by subtracting 1/TPI from the nominal thread diameter.........
?
As I mentioned in my post, this is only accurate for 60 deg threads. For those of us on this side of the pond, it doesn't work. But it can be used as an approximation, where the 'fit' is not too important.
Cheers.
??????? Ellis
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