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I'll DI the carriage again later this week but I
replaced the plates
8 or 9 months ago and adjusted them to drag near the
HS end. It's
solid there, less so at the TS end.

I put the 3" 3 jaw back on last night just to test
things and it's as
quiet as it has always been. If the level of chatter
were the same as
with the 5" then I would conclude that something
else is the problem,
but that is not the case. And while I agree it's not
the chuck
itself, and probably not the aluminum backplate,
there's some effect
the big chuck is having on the mini-lathe. The
overhanging weight and
extra 1", or so, of length has got to have some
effect on something.
Maybe it's the spindle bearings as Roy suggested.
I'll have a look,
but how do I know when they are properly adjusted?
Can't they self-
destruct if they're too tight?

You know, one thing just came to mind, I recall
noticing a slight
shake in the lathe when the chuck spins up as if it
where out of
balance. I wrote it off to the drive train being
designed for much
less mass (it does make different noises when the
big chuck is on),
but maybe the chuck itself is not balanced. Would
that trigger
chatter?

The Vikki Ford site only has music and Harry Potter
stuff. Guess
she's got a new hobby.

Thanks for the tips and pointers. As usual, it's the
diagnosis that
takes the time.

Regards,

Marc G.


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Frank Hoose
<fhoose@y...> wrote:

I agree that the chuck & back plate are probably

not

the source of the chatter. The saddle plates can

be a

source of chatter if not snugly adjusted. Here's a
link to the adjustment procedure:

Frank Hoose



--- roylowenthal <roylowenthal@y...> wrote:

Adjusting the spindle bearings is easier than

you

think. With the
change gear cover off, there are 2 slotted nuts
visible; the one
closest to the HS adjusts bearing preload; the

other

one is a
locknut. (The dwg in the manual shows one

adjusting

nut, with a
setscrew for locking.)
If your carriage loosens as travels away from

the

HS, I suspect
that's the major source of chatter. Long before

you

feel noticeable
rocking, the tool will move slightly, causing
chatter. Try
experimentally tightening the slide plates to

give a

bit of drag at
the end of the 5" chuck.
On the 7x10 site there've been some useful
discussions about
truing the bed to eliminate this factory error.
Making some flavor of carriage clamp will

help;

holding the
carrige with the half-nuts is too sloppy for
accuracy. The Vikki
Ford design is small & effective.

I don't think the Al mounting plate is the

source

of the chatter;
lots of folks use them without reporting

problems.

I mounted my 4"
with a CI plate, mostly because a 2 1/2 lb

weight

plate cost $0.45 at
my favorite local thrift store! If I'd had a
suitable chunk of Al, I
would have happily used it.
FWIW, I get best results at rather low

spindle

speeds; rarely do I
use anything past the 12 o'clock position.

Roy

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lock on my machine & if I can successfully send it!

Roy

I'll DI the carriage again later this week but I replaced the

8 or 9 months ago and adjusted them to drag near the HS end. It's
solid there, less so at the TS end.

I put the 3" 3 jaw back on last night just to test things and it's

quiet as it has always been. If the level of chatter were the same

with the 5" then I would conclude that something else is the

but that is not the case. And while I agree it's not the chuck
itself, and probably not the aluminum backplate, there's some

the big chuck is having on the mini-lathe. The overhanging weight

extra 1", or so, of length has got to have some effect on

Maybe it's the spindle bearings as Roy suggested. I'll have a look,
but how do I know when they are properly adjusted? Can't they self-
destruct if they're too tight?

You know, one thing just came to mind, I recall noticing a slight
shake in the lathe when the chuck spins up as if it where out of
balance. I wrote it off to the drive train being designed for much
less mass (it does make different noises when the big chuck is on),
but maybe the chuck itself is not balanced. Would that trigger
chatter?

The Vikki Ford site only has music and Harry Potter stuff. Guess
she's got a new hobby.

Thanks for the tips and pointers. As usual, it's the diagnosis that
takes the time.

Regards,

Marc G.

Adjusting the spindle bearings is easier than you
think. With the
change gear cover off, there are 2 slotted nuts
visible; the one
closest to the HS adjusts bearing preload; the other
one is a
locknut. (The dwg in the manual shows one adjusting
nut, with a
setscrew for locking.)
If your carriage loosens as travels away from the
HS, I suspect
that's the major source of chatter. Long before you
feel noticeable
rocking, the tool will move slightly, causing
chatter. Try
experimentally tightening the slide plates to give a
bit of drag at
the end of the 5" chuck.
On the 7x10 site there've been some useful
discussions about
truing the bed to eliminate this factory error.
Making some flavor of carriage clamp will help;
holding the
carrige with the half-nuts is too sloppy for
accuracy. The Vikki
Ford design is small & effective.

I don't think the Al mounting plate is the source
of the chatter;
lots of folks use them without reporting problems.
I mounted my 4"
with a CI plate, mostly because a 2 1/2 lb weight
plate cost $0.45 at
my favorite local thrift store! If I'd had a
suitable chunk of Al, I
would have happily used it.
FWIW, I get best results at rather low spindle
speeds; rarely do I
use anything past the 12 o'clock position.

Roy
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "diymarc"
<diymarc@t...> wrote:

Bill & Chuck,

Thanks for the replies. I intend to have an

adjustable backplate so
I

can zero the TIR. I realize, of course, that it's

probably not

repeatable on a re-chuck but there are some things

I need to flip
end-

to-end and adjustability would help there. This

limits me to a
sloppy

fit for the spindle to backplate.

My 3" 3 jaw is pretty quiet so it's the net

assembly with the 5"

that's causing the problem. I haven't adjusted the

spindle bearings

and it sounds like a messy teardown. I did find

that the backplate

was not properly faced. It was off by .0015, must

of slipped during

the facing. I probably need a proper carriage stop

instead of just

closing the half-nuts. Refacing reduced, but

didn't eliminate the

chatter. I partly disassembled and inspected the

chuck but there
was

nothing that I thought would cause chatter.

Component roughness

wouldn't do that IMHO.

Depth of cut does affect the chatter in the

typical way, deeper
cuts

causing it more. I normally take .005 to .01 rough

cuts but the
high

end is definately too much with the 5". RPMs are

pretty much the

same. I haven't conducted much testing since the

refacing but I
will

do that soon.

One other thing I found when checking the basics

was that as the

carriage moves away from the HS it gets looser,

actually allowing
the

carriage to rotate around a vertical axis; which

makes the bit move

into or away from the work depending on which way

I crank the

carriage. Never noticed that before and I not sure

of the exact

cause, or if it matters since chatter kicks in

before much carriage

looseness develops.

I think I'll try making a steel backplate. I just

hope the chatter

isn't mostly a function of the weight hanging on

the spindle.

Regards,
Marc G.

--- In 7x12minilathe@...,

"roylowenthal"

<roylowenthal@y...> wrote:

Actually, when I saw it on 7x10, I was hoping

somebody else

would

deal with it! I suspect I'm not alone!
Do you have another (smaller) chuck that

works better?

Have you tried adjusting the spindle

bearings?

Has the ENCO chuck been disassembled,

cleaned, de-burred &

lubricated?
How heavy a cut at what speed gives chatter?

Does the same
cut

with a different speed work without chatter?

Roy

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First an observation which may be helpful. I haven't been doing
machining very long and can't make many contributions, but would

to comment on my experiences with electrolytic rust removal. I

up an artical on this process a couple of years ago somewhere on

tool collectors network and determined to try it. I do a lot of
woodworking and often come across good old tools which I would like
to use if they were not so rusty. It turns out that any old "dumb"
battry charger, preferably one with an ammeter can be used. I'd

trying to use one of the new "smart" chargers which will sense the
batteries charge level and change their output accordingly. The
solution is just a mixture of Arm and Hammer baking soda in water.
The positive side of the charger goes to a scrap piece of

old pot lid or something, and the negative side goes to the rusty
tool. Both go in the solution about 2-3" apart. Turn on the charger
and watch them bubble. Average rusty piece takes about an hour for
me, and I keep the amps down under 5. It works great. The solution
does not have to be changed until it gets ickier than you can

Please read the original documentation before you try it, just to

safe.
Question. Just before I bought my lathe I purchased some

6061, and brass 3/4" rod from Online Metals for practice material.
They have a nice service, but it seems a little expensive, and I
can't help thinking that there must be a simpler, cheaper way to

metal to work with. I hear people talking about scrap yard

but I've never tried that. How will does just plain, garden variety
steel work for hobby machining? Has anyone had any experience with
their local scrap dealers? How should they be approached?
Thanks!

Bill & Chuck,

Thanks for the replies. I intend to have an adjustable backplate so

can zero the TIR. I realize, of course, that it's probably not
repeatable on a re-chuck but there are some things I need to flip

to-end and adjustability would help there. This limits me to a

fit for the spindle to backplate.

My 3" 3 jaw is pretty quiet so it's the net assembly with the 5"
that's causing the problem. I haven't adjusted the spindle bearings
and it sounds like a messy teardown. I did find that the backplate
was not properly faced. It was off by .0015, must of slipped during
the facing. I probably need a proper carriage stop instead of just
closing the half-nuts. Refacing reduced, but didn't eliminate the
chatter. I partly disassembled and inspected the chuck but there

nothing that I thought would cause chatter. Component roughness
wouldn't do that IMHO.

Depth of cut does affect the chatter in the typical way, deeper

causing it more. I normally take .005 to .01 rough cuts but the

end is definately too much with the 5". RPMs are pretty much the
same. I haven't conducted much testing since the refacing but I

do that soon.

One other thing I found when checking the basics was that as the
carriage moves away from the HS it gets looser, actually allowing

carriage to rotate around a vertical axis; which makes the bit move
into or away from the work depending on which way I crank the
carriage. Never noticed that before and I not sure of the exact
cause, or if it matters since chatter kicks in before much carriage
looseness develops.

I think I'll try making a steel backplate. I just hope the chatter
isn't mostly a function of the weight hanging on the spindle.

Regards,
Marc G.

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "roylowenthal"
<roylowenthal@y...> wrote:

Actually, when I saw it on 7x10, I was hoping somebody else

would

deal with it! I suspect I'm not alone!
Do you have another (smaller) chuck that works better?
Have you tried adjusting the spindle bearings?
Has the ENCO chuck been disassembled, cleaned, de-burred &
lubricated?
How heavy a cut at what speed gives chatter? Does the same

with a different speed work without chatter?

Roy

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
7x12minilathe-unsubscribe@...

Getting around to getting the lathe soon, I hope. However, I would
like to use collets for holding small diameter material.

Of course if it is easier on the small machine to use a milling tool
holder collet then that's fine. One holder for miller and lathe
means a few quid for something else.

It's been almost a year since I bought the lathe. Will HF
go so far as to replace a unit which is now mostly a pile of
parts on my bench? It would be very nice if they would but
I feel a little nervous making that phone call.

Actually, when I saw it on 7x10, I was hoping somebody else

deal with it! I suspect I'm not alone!
Do you have another (smaller) chuck that works better?
Have you tried adjusting the spindle bearings?
Has the ENCO chuck been disassembled, cleaned, de-burred &
lubricated?
How heavy a cut at what speed gives chatter? Does the same cut
with a different speed work without chatter?

Roy

I posted this in the 7x10 group but the OT noise was so high I

it just got lost. Anyway, I've adapted an Enco 5" 3 jaw on my Micro
Mart lathe and it's nice to look at, but I can't turn much without
chatter. Actually, small diameter stuff (<1/4") and facing near the
work center is okay, but that's it. I think there's too much

flex in the spindle/chuck/work "assembly". My theory is that the 5"
chuck, being rather heavy at ~12 lbs, may deflect things downward.
Since turning produces upward forces that are probably irregular I
get vibration. I checked for looseness and dull bits but things
looked okay.

Has anyone experienced this problem and resolved it?

I made the backplate out of aluminum tooling plate and had no
problems turning it because, I think, it was close to the spindle
faceplate and has little mass.

Should I go to a steel backplate? How about turning one from one of
those disc shaped 5lb cast iron weights? More weight but more rigid.

Thanks,

Marc G.

First an observation which may be helpful. I haven't been doing
machining very long and can't make many contributions, but would

to comment on my experiences with electrolytic rust removal. I

up an artical on this process a couple of years ago somewhere on

tool collectors network and determined to try it. I do a lot of
woodworking and often come across good old tools which I would like
to use if they were not so rusty. It turns out that any old "dumb"
battry charger, preferably one with an ammeter can be used. I'd

trying to use one of the new "smart" chargers which will sense the
batteries charge level and change their output accordingly. The
solution is just a mixture of Arm and Hammer baking soda in water.
The positive side of the charger goes to a scrap piece of

old pot lid or something, and the negative side goes to the rusty
tool. Both go in the solution about 2-3" apart. Turn on the charger
and watch them bubble. Average rusty piece takes about an hour for
me, and I keep the amps down under 5. It works great. The solution
does not have to be changed until it gets ickier than you can

Please read the original documentation before you try it, just to

safe.
Question. Just before I bought my lathe I purchased some

6061, and brass 3/4" rod from Online Metals for practice material.
They have a nice service, but it seems a little expensive, and I
can't help thinking that there must be a simpler, cheaper way to

metal to work with. I hear people talking about scrap yard

but I've never tried that. How will does just plain, garden variety
steel work for hobby machining? Has anyone had any experience with
their local scrap dealers? How should they be approached?
Thanks!