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Hi Roy,

Thanks for the response!

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "roylowenthal"
<roylowenthal@...> wrote:

Those little ones are primarily intended for "chip carving" not lathe
use. The bigger ones look like a generic carving set, not a lathe
set. Still, for small work, anything you can make work is a suitable
tool. The size of the machine makes pen turning tools about the
right general size, here's what they look like:



No particular connection except as a satisfied customer of theirs for
the last 30 yrs:-)

I've pretty much written off both those sets as an "educational"
expense" :-). Not completely useless, but not what I was looking for.

I really appreciate the pointers!

Found what appears to be the same set for about $10 less at:



There is another set there that has a few more, one in particular that
looks like it might do for small projects as well as pen turning too(?):



That one is actually cheaper, not that I am willing to be penny
foolish again :-).

I found the pen kits today and tracked them down (to the site with the
chisels).

Found a walnut piece today that might work for it, should be
interesting :-) to try to make one.

I really hate to pull the chuck off for this so I can use the wood
center since I am not going to doing a lot of wood stuff. Perhaps I
can make one that will fit in the chuck?!?

That one is too big for pen blanks and was actually too big for the
honey spoon too (cone engaged, teeth don't).

Thought about cutting the taper off the wood center that came from LMS
so it might fit in the chuck, but I just don't know if that would work
and I'd hate to ruin it :-/. Since it seems to be too big for
anything I'm doing, it is probably a moot point.

Yet another exciting adventure on the way :-) :-) :-)!

Thanks & take care, Vikki.

Congrats on the new toy^H^H^H^H tool!

I got my Cummins not all that long ago and have had a lot of fun with
it and also learned a lot.

Was quite relieved that it was blue, I was afraid I was going to have
to paint black spots on it and call it Daisy (Cummins, in theory, was
selling yellow painted ones at that time :-). I *almost* went with
the Hormier over the color issue, but they never had it in stock for
longer than, perhaps, an afternoon...

About the only accessory that came with the lathe that I was not
impressed with were the 5 brazed carbide cutting tools. Messed up a
couple of those right off. After that I got HSS blanks and a grinder
and have fairly well learned to grind (NO expert, but I get the job
done so far :-).

If you don't plan on going to a QCTP save the strapping that held the
shipping crate together, cut those up for shims to get the cutting
tools up on spindle center.

I've sort of documented this adventure, in case you are interested in
seeing what I did check out:



Perhaps the "Shiny Things" section might be helpful as you can see
what I did (what mistakes I made ;-)?!?

The entries are push-down (most recent first).

Hope it helps and / or inspires :-)!

Take care, Vikki.

I had the exact same results as you using that cheapie carbide set.
I'm new to the lathe, so I'm far from an expert, but from my limited
experience and everything I've read, the others are on the right
track. You can buy a bench grinder from a company like Homier or
Cummins for as little as $15, and it will do the job just fine.
Varmint Al has examples of ground bits that you can follow at
(). Don't stress
out about getting it just right. It's a forgiving process. If the
angles are even close to those in the picture, you'll be just fine.
Don't worry if you don't have a diamond hone. I haven't honed my bits
& I've been getting great results. I have no doubt that when I get
around to buying a hone, the results will get even better, but for
now, I'm perfectly happy.

One more big advantage of learning to grind bits is when you need a
custom profile. Want a curved transition between surfaces? just carve
a bit in the appropriate shape. You probably won't be able to find a
premade bit with just the right profile...

I'm surprised and glad to hear so many people found that helpful. And
please accept my apologies for the lousy (free) hosting. I tested it
as best I could with Firefox and konqueror and they seemed to work
fine with it. Thank you Mike for providing an alternative!

Those speed control divisions are what appear on my non-Sieg
mini-lathe. If someone's got a set that would be more helpful or
popular, I would only be too happy to redraw it to suit.

If hosting ever disappears entirely or some trouble is met, please
feel free to contact me by email and I'll send them along.

Congratulations on your new toy! I bought the same machine a while
back, and know exactly how you feel. The tools that came with mine
(red painted soft metal with brazed tips?) aren't very good. It is
WELL worth your time to learn how to make your own tools and grind
what profiles you need. Some really good information can be found at
www.mini-lathe.com (buy the premium content - highly recommended), as
well as the "Learning" link at www.littlemachineshop.com.

Get yourself some HSS tool blanks and a grinder, and make lots of
chips! One warning though.... it's VERY addictive. Have fun.

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "harleyknall" <knall@...> wrote:

It came with 5 bits.... I am unsure what each one is for....

But

I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on some

scrap.

Ruined 1 by running the lathe in reverse....ruined the other
having it set to low in relation to the tailstock hight.

ANYWHO...... I think I know how to operate the thing now.
I need to get a "parting tool" a tool to thread with, and

a "turning

tool"
Where to get ? what size to get? what style to get? as I
mentioned i have 5 difrant bits in front of me and I am oblivious

as to

which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90

degrees to

the workpiece for all these operations?

Thanks guys, I got enough of a "feel" for the machine tonight

that I

know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need to

complete.

Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits I

have

seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em.

Hi,

The 5 piece tool set commonly included is pretty much crap. But
that's probably what you want for those initial stuff ups. The usual
set comprises 5 brazed carbide tipped tools, painted red. At 2 down
you're 40% of the way to graduating to something better.

One has a symetrical V shape and can be used for external threading.

Two more provide angled cutting from left and right with sufficient
angle to reach into a 90 degree squared up shoulder in the work.
Incidentally, the one that cuts from the right is called a right
hand tool, the other a left hand tool.

A fourth tool is for more general cutting. It will give a cleaner
finish but can't get into corners.

Finally, the fifth is almost parallel sided but somewhat wider at
the cutting end. That's actually a parting tool. Use it gently at
low RPM only. Mine broke on first use on a light feed at around 200
RPM. It was mounted about 10 thou low and the job rolled up onto it.

The cutting edge of a tool should be on spindle centre height. Any
lower and the work has a tendency to roll over the tool and jam. Any
higher and the angled relief below the cutting tip has a tendency to
drag on the job, keeping the tip from cutting as it should. If
you're a slow learner like me you just press harder to make it cut
with the effect that the rubbing work-hardens the job and it still
doesn't cut.

Since you still have a few of those little red devils left you're
not done learning yet. Stick some more scrap in the chuck and keep
learning before you buy more tooling. I'd suggest you learn to grind
your own HSS blanks. It's a necessary skill eventually. I've had
limited success with carbide inserts on small lathes. Perhaps some
pre-ground HSS tools would be a good start. That way you'll know the
tool is properly ground before you start. They're also a good
template for when you start grinding your own.

John



--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "harleyknall" <knall@...>
wrote:

It came with 5 bits.... I am unsure what each one is for....

But

I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on some

scrap.

Ruined 1 by running the lathe in reverse....ruined the other
having it set to low in relation to the tailstock hight.

ANYWHO...... I think I know how to operate the thing now.
I need to get a "parting tool" a tool to thread with, and

a "turning

tool"
Where to get ? what size to get? what style to get? as I
mentioned i have 5 difrant bits in front of me and I am oblivious

as to

which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90

degrees to

the workpiece for all these operations?

Thanks guys, I got enough of a "feel" for the machine tonight

that I

know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need to

complete.

Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits I

have

seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em.

G'day Harley.
I didn't know what to do with some of the bits that came with my
lathe either so I bought some blanks and ground my own tools.
Have a look on minilathe web site and in the Little machine shop web
site also Mini-lathe.org.uk.
Each site has info abour grinding tools and their uses.
The concensus of opinion is that you are better off grinding your own
out of High Speed Steel blanks than using the cheap carbide sets you
can buy. Look on eBay at ToolTimes and others, they sell pregound HSS
tools and HSS blanks. HSS has the advantage that if you stuff the
edge you can regrind it.
Grinding tools is not difficult and is an invaluable skill, it is
also cheaper, money to spend on other things. Some have suggested
that HHS can give a better finish.
Bench mounted grinders are not expensive and useful for other things.
To gain confidence in tool grinding I recommend gettine some square
section mild steel, probably available from a hardware store near
you. Cut it into blanks and practice cutting the tool profiles you
want. I had to do this during training before I was allowed on a
lathe.

The only carbide tools I now have are internal and external thread
cutting and then only because they were available cheaply through
eBay.

All I have said has been debated recently in another thread; scan
back through the last two weeks.

Regarding your associated questions the above web sites will provide
the answers.
I tend to use only a couple of tool shapes and adjust the angle of
the tool to the lathe access to get the type of cut I want eg
roughing, finishing and left and right facing. A "V" shaped with a
rounded nose is most versatile, it lets you do many operations
without changing tool, you only have to vary the angle.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "harleyknall" <knall@...> wrote:

It came with 5 bits.... I am unsure what each one is for....

But

I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on some

scrap.

Ruined 1 by running the lathe in reverse....ruined the other
having it set to low in relation to the tailstock hight.

ANYWHO...... I think I know how to operate the thing now.
I need to get a "parting tool" a tool to thread with, and

a "turning

tool"
Where to get ? what size to get? what style to get? as I
mentioned i have 5 difrant bits in front of me and I am oblivious

as to

which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90

degrees to

the workpiece for all these operations?

Thanks guys, I got enough of a "feel" for the machine tonight

that I

know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need to

complete.

Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits I

have

seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em.

It came with 5 bits.... I am unsure what each one is for.... But
I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on some scrap.

Ruined 1 by running the lathe in reverse....ruined the other
having it set to low in relation to the tailstock hight.

ANYWHO...... I think I know how to operate the thing now.
I need to get a "parting tool" a tool to thread with, and a "turning
tool"
Where to get ? what size to get? what style to get? as I
mentioned i have 5 difrant bits in front of me and I am oblivious as to
which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90 degrees to
the workpiece for all these operations?

Thanks guys, I got enough of a "feel" for the machine tonight that I
know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need to complete.
Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits I have
seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em.

I couldn't open it either, thanks for the mirror, Mike; and thank you
Paul for posting. I've been thinking of what I can cover the Speedway
Series label with and your drawings and speed table may just be the
ticket.

G'day Andy & Robin
The prices in the Chester catalogue answer my question. They list
the "Conquest" at ?365 and the DB7V at ?475. The "Conquest" only
includes basic extras whereas the DB7V includes a 4 jaw chuck,
steadies and other goodies in the package. For only an extra ?110
(AUD275) you get a better machine plus the extra gear you would have
to purchase anyway.
All I can say is "I wish the DB7V had been available in Oz when I
purchased my lathe."
By comparison you can get in Oz a 7x12 like the "Conquest" for
AUD655 = ?262 on eBay and from a machinery house for AUD799 = ?320.
Being closer to China does have its advantages even if we do lose our
jobs.

Does the DB7V show up in the US? Has anybody seen it in Oz?

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian



--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Robin" <robandjan@...> wrote:

I saw this Chester Lathe at the London Model Engineering Exhibition.



The Chester rep said that it wasn't sourced from the same

manufacturer as the warco lathe. Apart from the the Tail Stock being
locked down to the lathe bed by a nut and bolt,and the fact that it
was a nicer colour, I couldn't see any difference. Chester price it
at ?475

Robin

I saw this Chester Lathe at the London Model Engineering Exhibition.



The Chester rep said that it wasn't sourced from the same manufacturer as the warco lathe. Apart from the the Tail Stock being locked down to the lathe bed by a nut and bolt,and the fact that it was a nicer colour, I couldn't see any difference. Chester price it at ?475

Robin

Sehr geehrte Herr Ian!
Es spricht alles dafur... oh, I can't keep it up, and anyway, I don't know how to do umlauts, the scharfes S and things on this keyboard.
You could be right about Weiss, I suppose, though for reasons already stated, I think it unlikely that a German firm would opt for Seig as a trading name with which to be associated. Like you, I intend no racial slur, but all nations have bits of history which they would rather hadn't happened.
mit Freundlichen Grussen,
Andy

steam4ian <fosterscons@...> wrote:
Guten Morgen alles fruender.
Robin's research discovered that the WM180V is manufactured in China by
Weiss. Well done!
Andy wrote "Weiss is German for white, and Sieg is German for victory -
the Chinese seem to be attracted to German-sounding trade-names"
Based on our commercial experience in Oz this is to be expected. Both
Weiss and Sieg are probably German owned companies which have moved off-
shore to take advantage of lower wages and other 3rd world advantages.
Rather than being owned by Mssrs Wong and Lee they are probable owned
by Herrs Schwartz und Schmid. (Please note that the above ethnic stereo-
typing is in no way intended as a slur on any race colour or individual
but is simply used to illustrate a point.)
In Oz we have had whole factories move offshore, from heavy power
equipment to food processing to boot manfacture. Whole factories have
been packed up over a weekend to go to China or Thailalnd, the
ownership does not change.
Point of this dicussion? These lathes are not cheap copies of
something better but follow a European design. The weeknesses of Sieg's
design are more likely to be of commercial origin than representative
of any ethnic shortcomings.

The Weiss lathe would appear a better product than the Sieg 7x12. But
as value for money, Apart from Warco what other pricing information do
we have?

Enough ranting or I will be relegated to the 7x10 group!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian






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Guten Morgen alles fruender.
Robin's research discovered that the WM180V is manufactured in China by
Weiss. Well done!
Andy wrote "Weiss is German for white, and Sieg is German for victory -
the Chinese seem to be attracted to German-sounding trade-names"
Based on our commercial experience in Oz this is to be expected. Both
Weiss and Sieg are probably German owned companies which have moved off-
shore to take advantage of lower wages and other 3rd world advantages.
Rather than being owned by Mssrs Wong and Lee they are probable owned
by Herrs Schwartz und Schmid. (Please note that the above ethnic stereo-
typing is in no way intended as a slur on any race colour or individual
but is simply used to illustrate a point.)
In Oz we have had whole factories move offshore, from heavy power
equipment to food processing to boot manfacture. Whole factories have
been packed up over a weekend to go to China or Thailalnd, the
ownership does not change.
Point of this dicussion? These lathes are not cheap copies of
something better but follow a European design. The weeknesses of Sieg's
design are more likely to be of commercial origin than representative
of any ethnic shortcomings.

The Weiss lathe would appear a better product than the Sieg 7x12. But
as value for money, Apart from Warco what other pricing information do
we have?


Enough ranting or I will be relegated to the 7x10 group!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

Hello, Ellis
The picture on the website isn't quite up-to-date. The digital readout shown in the inset picture is now incorporated in the curved front panel, above the speed control knob, and the tailstock is now locked by a proper lever at the back. My only quibbles are that
(a) there is no reverse for the leadscrew (only for the whole lathe), so you can't do LH threads, but I'm working on that.
(b) it hasn't got a backgear, so you are limited to the two speed ranges and commensurate torques which are achieved (unlke the mini-lathe) by shifting a drive belt to different pulleys..Mind you, there's much more space inside the headstock casting than on a mini-lathe....
Andy

Ellis Cory <ellis103@...> wrote:
.......Hello Ellis If you go to www.warco.co.uk and just type wm180 in their search box it should come right up.......

Thanks.
Ellis








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I routinely heat small items for hardening with a "propane" torch. I
do use a couple of firebricks to make a 2 brick forge. I know it is
hot enough when it will not attract a rare earth magnet. I have heard
that MAPP gas with a propane burner is not as hot as propane .. I
suspect that is so ... make sure you have the right attachment to your
MAPP. What is a small item: up to 1/4 X 2 X 2 easily that would be
wood planer blades and chisels. Drill Rod 1/2 X 2 inches also.

You'll know it works when after quinching it is glass hard, won't cut
with a file. Temper is a 250 degree oven for 1/2 to 1 hour.
Directions on my O1 steel packaging.

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., <gregorstransky@...> wrote:

Another question from a beginner. According to a basic book about

home

machinery it is possible to temper metal using a MAPP gas torch. I

have

tried this on a 4x1/2 punch made out of annealed 4140 with a

standard MAPP

gas torch suitable for plumbing work. I was unsuccessful because the

punch

did not get hot enough. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Gregor Stransky, San Antonio, Texas

.......Hello Ellis If you go to www.warco.co.uk and just type wm180 in their search box it should come right up.......

Thanks.
Ellis

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" <ellis103@...> wrote:

Robin wrote........I have a Warco WM180V 7x12.......

I went onto the Warco website, but couldn't find any reference to it.

Any link to a picture, info. please ?

Thanks.
Ellis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ellis If you go to www.warco.co.uk and just type wm180 in their
search box it should come right up..

Robin wrote........I have a Warco WM180V 7x12.......

I went onto the Warco website, but couldn't find any reference to it. Any link to a picture, info. please ?
Thanks.
Ellis

Hello Andy and Robin I have just placed my order today for the WM180
with the metric leadscrew.. it should arrive sometime next week.

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., andrew franks <andyf1108@...>
wrote:

Hello, Robin - you stayed up late!
Good research - I had thought our lathes were somehow connected

with Seig, because of the similarity in the cross- and top-slides,
but that obviously isn't so.

Weiss is German for white, and Sieg is German for victory - the

Chinese seem to be attracted to German-sounding trade-names, though
someone should have told Sieg that theirs still has overtones from
60-odd years ago.

Like you, I'm pretty happy with my Warco-Weiss, too - it worked

well straight from the crate..I think Chris ("Mozziesplat") has just
ordered one, too.

Andy

Robin <robandjan@...> wrote:
I have a Warco WM180V 7x12 as does at least one other UK

member of this forum. I have had my one for just over a Year and
believe it to be a lovely little lathe. Trawling through the
Internet I have found the address of the original manufacturer of
these lathes in China. They can be found at
I don't know if any US seller re-
badges these, but it might be worth an email to the company. I know
this site is virtually dedicated to the Seig mini lathe, but for
just a little bit more cash you can have one of these. Warco provide
all the optional items free, except the Collet Chuck and Collet
Holder.

Robin






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