Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum
There were several references to a "Popular Mechanics" magazine issue with am EDM DIY article even in YouTube comments.? One comment said 1963.? One said 1969.? One said 50's or 60's.? I spent a LOT of time looking for it but came up empty.? It doesn't mean it isn't there, but people may be misremembering.
I finally was able to find an EDM DIY article in the March 1968 issue of "Popular Science" magazine on page 149 titled "EDM:? Space-Age Machining in Your Home Shop."? Sound about right?
Here is a link to that magazine - but it won't help.? You can see the article listed on the contents page, but pages 149 through 154 are MISSING.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the design might have been so hazardous that by some means somebody had it excised.? But if you can get your hands on a physical issue (there are copies on eBay right now and often will be), or find somewhere it is scanned complete, that may be the article people are thinking about.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 12:14:47 PM PDT, Bill Williams <bwmsbldr1@...> wrote:
I read it about 40 years ago in the CC library in Colorado Springs! I am not even?sure of the date! Try google say" DIY EDM Cheap"? Bill
In my home hobby projects, I've usually only tapped holes in the range from 6-32? up to 1/4-20. The smaller 6-32 and 8-32 taps still make me nervous, even when tapping aluminum. Even when using a guide or tap follower to keep things straight, and using tapping lube, my biggest question has always been "how much torque should I be applying, and how much is too much?" Like many hobbyists, I started out with one of those large sets of "tungsten steel" taps and dies. The taps are typically plug taps, so I find the cut is quite aggressive. I will start off with a hole drilled with the recommended number drill, but more often than not, the tap will not start properly, even if I chamfer the opening of the hole. So, I go up to the next-larger number drill, and try that. Often I have to go up two drill sizes to get the tap to start. I know I'm giving up some thread engagement by doing this, but the results have been acceptable for my projects.
But, this past week, I bought a set of HSS taper taps, from 6-32 to 3/8, from an industrial supplier. I'm hoping that the less-aggressive taper taps will give me more luck in starting the tapping, and less anxiety? when trying to decide how hard to twist the tap wrench.
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
I'm glad to hear about the nitric acid method, although it feels like a last resort.? ?
To prevent tap breakage, I only go forward until the next flute, then back a little to break the chip.? ?Alignment is very important, however you achieve that.? ?On bigger taps you can feel a little resistance.I use a light cutting oil.? If I don't have that, I use water.? I hear kerosene is good for aluminum.
For removing a small screw or tap, I try to cut a screwdriver slot with a Dremel cutoff? wheel.? I know it's not always practical.
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I use this sometimes when power tapping for maybe a # 10 & up
they work pretty good & their great if doing as bunch of repetitive drilling with different size bits .
animal
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Actually power tapping is very easy. Just tighten the tap into the tail stock chuck Then back the tail stock?hand wheel?until the chuck releases. Then move the tail stock?and chuck toward the workpiece?and lock in place. Lube the tap, start the lathe, and using your hand push the tap into the work piece. When the tap bottoms out release your grip on the chuce. Stop the lathe and reverse it to back the tap out. The maximum tap I use in steel is 5/16-18. I have done brass using a 3/8-24 tap. John Mattis (retired mechanical engineer)
I'm sorta amazed how many youtube videos show guys tapping under power.
I know it's a bit of a must in a production setting, but I was always taught to tap by hand - ideally using some sort of guide or fixture.
Do you guys do a lot of tapping under power?? Just the idea makes me nervous.
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum
I read it about 40 years ago in the CC library in Colorado Springs! I am not even?sure of the date! Try google say" DIY EDM Cheap"? Bill
In my home hobby projects, I've usually only tapped holes in the range from 6-32? up to 1/4-20. The smaller 6-32 and 8-32 taps still make me nervous, even when tapping aluminum. Even when using a guide or tap follower to keep things straight, and using tapping lube, my biggest question has always been "how much torque should I be applying, and how much is too much?" Like many hobbyists, I started out with one of those large sets of "tungsten steel" taps and dies. The taps are typically plug taps, so I find the cut is quite aggressive. I will start off with a hole drilled with the recommended number drill, but more often than not, the tap will not start properly, even if I chamfer the opening of the hole. So, I go up to the next-larger number drill, and try that. Often I have to go up two drill sizes to get the tap to start. I know I'm giving up some thread engagement by doing this, but the results have been acceptable for my projects.
But, this past week, I bought a set of HSS taper taps, from 6-32 to 3/8, from an industrial supplier. I'm hoping that the less-aggressive taper taps will give me more luck in starting the tapping, and less anxiety? when trying to decide how hard to twist the tap wrench.
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
Tap guides are great and fairly easy and cheap to make with proper tools and equipment.? I have plans to make one for myself out of 4140 which I can heat treat and make it more durable. ? Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 10:55?AM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
If ya don't drill & tap much that's where drill & tap
guides come in handy .
If ya have a drill press or access to one these a simple quick
jobs .
?
animal
On 3/17/24 4:43 AM, Ron Y wrote:
In my case the tap broke on the fifth hole. I was just thinking to
myself that this is a cheap tap and I need to get a better set
(these were the Pittsburgh brand from HF that I got probably 30
years ago and was a tiny m3). Of course it snapped just as I was
finishing the thought. I have not had many occasions over the
years to drill and tap such a tiny hole and it happened. I am
hoping that I will actually be able to use a lathe (my back) and
get to learn a lot of this stuff. Remember not everyone has been
doing this for years and years and some are trying to do it with
physical limitations. I used to do carpentry work but can't cut a
straight line anymore. We adapt.? A metal lathe is something i
have always been fascinated with and hopefully be able to use and
have some fun with.
Ron
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I some power tapping on my mini lathe and mini mill but I prefer hand tapping with tap being in proper alignment.? I do not have a power tapping device and only power tap when I am confident that the tap will not break. Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
I'm sorta amazed how many youtube videos show guys tapping under power.
I know it's a bit of a must in a production setting, but I was always taught to tap by hand - ideally using some sort of guide or fixture.
Do you guys do a lot of tapping under power?? Just the idea makes me nervous.
|
I'm sorta amazed how many youtube videos show guys tapping under power.
I know it's a bit of a must in a production setting, but I was always taught to tap by hand - ideally using some sort of guide or fixture.
Do you guys do a lot of tapping under power?? Just the idea makes me nervous.
|
Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
Most tapping is in drill press/mill or lathe. This how did my nut for cross slide 
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum
In my home hobby projects, I've usually only tapped holes in the range from 6-32? up to 1/4-20. The smaller 6-32 and 8-32 taps still make me nervous, even when tapping aluminum. Even when using a guide or tap follower to keep things straight, and using tapping lube, my biggest question has always been "how much torque should I be applying, and how much is too much?" Like many hobbyists, I started out with one of those large sets of "tungsten steel" taps and dies. The taps are typically plug taps, so I find the cut is quite aggressive. I will start off with a hole drilled with the recommended number drill, but more often than not, the tap will not start properly, even if I chamfer the opening of the hole. So, I go up to the next-larger number drill, and try that. Often I have to go up two drill sizes to get the tap to start. I know I'm giving up some thread engagement by doing this, but the results have been acceptable for my projects.
But, this past week, I bought a set of HSS taper taps, from 6-32 to 3/8, from an industrial supplier. I'm hoping that the less-aggressive taper taps will give me more luck in starting the tapping, and less anxiety? when trying to decide how hard to twist the tap wrench.
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
Looks good to me.
I will make a block when need.
But I look the looks of that tool?
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
mike allen
10:55am? ?
If ya don't drill & tap much that's where drill & tap guides come in handy .
If ya have a drill press or access to one these a simple quick jobs .
?https://www.ebay.com/itm/150689770337
animal
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
If ya don't drill & tap much that's where drill & tap
guides come in handy .
If ya have a drill press or access to one these a simple quick
jobs .
?
animal
On 3/17/24 4:43 AM, Ron Y wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
In my case the tap broke on the fifth hole. I was just thinking to
myself that this is a cheap tap and I need to get a better set
(these were the Pittsburgh brand from HF that I got probably 30
years ago and was a tiny m3). Of course it snapped just as I was
finishing the thought. I have not had many occasions over the
years to drill and tap such a tiny hole and it happened. I am
hoping that I will actually be able to use a lathe (my back) and
get to learn a lot of this stuff. Remember not everyone has been
doing this for years and years and some are trying to do it with
physical limitations. I used to do carpentry work but can't cut a
straight line anymore. We adapt.? A metal lathe is something i
have always been fascinated with and hopefully be able to use and
have some fun with.
Ron
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum
You have never had to work with employees.?
Good luck not break taps
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
OldToolmaker 5:53am? ?
The solution is to not break a tap.
Always use a guide.?
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum
The solution is to not break a tap.
Always use a guide.?
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum
If alum takes 24 hours and nitric acid takes 10 minutes, you don't have to guess which one I'm using! A few minutes after my broken-off drill bit, I was back in my shop tapping the hole.
Walmart has made it tremendously easier to get nitric acid. Anyway, getting it is only a problem if you have a broken off drill bit or tap RIGHT NOW. Otherwise, order it ahead and save it until you need it. (You probably haven't already?got alum, either).
I store my acids under the kitchen?sink, because I always use them with plenty of water available. They're in a plastic tub, except for gallon bottles of muriatic acid. Here's a photo ?. I keep a recycling bin in front of this so no one ever sees it.
The white stuff in the tub is baking soda BTW, which may help neutralize a leak (or at least give me a clue which one is leaking, if one ever does).
Mike Taglieri?
On Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 5:42 PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
Yea I saw this last nite & thought wow we got something here
& if ya have 24 or maybe more hours to remove a broken tap
this could be the ticket . I know my patience & attention span
is much shorter . Gotta say the guy gave it his all though .
animal
On 3/16/24 2:14 PM, chrisser via
wrote:
This
recently posted on Youtube
Using
Alum to dissolve taps in non-ferrous metals.
Kinda
long and seems to require a lot of equipment and a fair amount
of time.? But might be an option less hazardous than nitric acid
and easier to get the materials.
On Saturday, March 16th, 2024 at
3:50 PM, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
What month in?
Popular Mechanics Magazine circa 1965 for an EDM "Tap Buster"?
Dave?
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
In my case the tap broke on the fifth hole. I was just thinking to myself that this is a cheap tap and I need to get a better set (these were the Pittsburgh brand from HF that I got probably 30 years ago and was a tiny m3). Of course it snapped just as I was finishing the thought. I have not had many occasions over the years to drill and tap such a tiny hole and it happened. I am hoping that I will actually be able to use a lathe (my back) and get to learn a lot of this stuff. Remember not everyone has been doing this for years and years and some are trying to do it with physical limitations. I used to do carpentry work but can't cut a straight line anymore. We adapt.? A metal lathe is something i have always been fascinated with and hopefully be able to use and have some fun with. Ron
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
I am one of the ones that questioned what an EDM was as I had never heard of one. I did break a tap in my HF mini lathe when adding the 16" bed extension. Luckily(?), mine broke at the hole nearest the headstock which is primarily not accessed. The instructions say to use only four bolts anyway (tapped five). I look at this group basically every day.? I have not even used the lathe yet nor fully finished putting it back together as I just had another back surgery a few days ago. These types of forums are where us newbies learn different things. I for one do not mind a slight drift in topics at times as long as it relates to the mini lathe. I also watched the video with the guy using the "lab" equipment with the magnetic stirrer to dissolve the tap in an aluminum piece after 20 hours. Nice demonstration but not really practical for a hobbyist to utilize, which is what I look for in these forums. For those that answered my queries on an off topic, thank you. I am trying to learn as much as possible.? Ron
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
gcvisalia@...
I would suggest folks try to figure out how to not break taps. Since the 70s to now, I think I have broken two taps. Both in my earlier years. Granted I dont do alot everyday but still
At time I would tap thousands a day sooner or later it would happen.? Since they where large type I could get broken tap with mig welder.? But most do not have skill . So you may need toremoving a tap in your mini lathe. Now we need to talk. Dave?
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
I tap on my mini lathe all the time, the trick is to keep the tap clear of chips by backing the tap out all the way, blow out the chips and use plenty of cutting fluid designed for the material that you are tapping.? If you break a tap removing the broken tap is hit-n-miss sometimes it can be done sometimes it can¡¯t be done.? Keep the tap in perfect alignment with the work piece as well and take your time. Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
It some most do om a mini is Tap.
Someone can break Tap in mini lathe.
Now what
It is like taking about chuck or some other tooling needs?
In using a mini lathe it something you will need to deal with.? There no sites with just Broken Tap?
Dave?
Pierre-Raymond Rondelle
6:43am? ?
Hi Mike,
May I make a comment please:
The original subject had nothing to do with the 7x12 mini-lathe group name
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Re: Using nitric acid to remove broken taps or drills from aluminum, comment to the remark
I would suggest folks try to figure out how to not break taps. Since the 70s to now, I think I have broken two taps. Both in my earlier years. Granted I dont do alot everyday but still.
george
On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 07:06:49 PM PDT, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
It some most do om a mini is Tap.
Someone can break Tap in mini lathe.
Now what
It is like taking about chuck or some other tooling needs?
In using a mini lathe it something you will need to deal with.? There no sites with just Broken Tap?
Dave?
Pierre-Raymond Rondelle
6:43am? ?
Hi Mike,
May I make a comment please:
The original subject had nothing to do with the 7x12 mini-lathe group name
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John Mattis
T
chrisser
davesmith1800
OldToolmaker