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Re: Just got the cummins 7x12 need help with tooling
wrlabs
Congrats on the new toy^H^H^H^H tool!
I got my Cummins not all that long ago and have had a lot of fun with it and also learned a lot. Was quite relieved that it was blue, I was afraid I was going to have to paint black spots on it and call it Daisy (Cummins, in theory, was selling yellow painted ones at that time :-). I *almost* went with the Hormier over the color issue, but they never had it in stock for longer than, perhaps, an afternoon... About the only accessory that came with the lathe that I was not impressed with were the 5 brazed carbide cutting tools. Messed up a couple of those right off. After that I got HSS blanks and a grinder and have fairly well learned to grind (NO expert, but I get the job done so far :-). If you don't plan on going to a QCTP save the strapping that held the shipping crate together, cut those up for shims to get the cutting tools up on spindle center. I've sort of documented this adventure, in case you are interested in seeing what I did check out: Perhaps the "Shiny Things" section might be helpful as you can see what I did (what mistakes I made ;-)?!? The entries are push-down (most recent first). Hope it helps and / or inspires :-)! Take care, Vikki. |
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Re: Just got the cummins 7x12 need help with tooling
Mike Payson
I had the exact same results as you using that cheapie carbide set.
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I'm new to the lathe, so I'm far from an expert, but from my limited experience and everything I've read, the others are on the right track. You can buy a bench grinder from a company like Homier or Cummins for as little as $15, and it will do the job just fine. Varmint Al has examples of ground bits that you can follow at (). Don't stress out about getting it just right. It's a forgiving process. If the angles are even close to those in the picture, you'll be just fine. Don't worry if you don't have a diamond hone. I haven't honed my bits & I've been getting great results. I have no doubt that when I get around to buying a hone, the results will get even better, but for now, I'm perfectly happy. One more big advantage of learning to grind bits is when you need a custom profile. Want a curved transition between surfaces? just carve a bit in the appropriate shape. You probably won't be able to find a premade bit with just the right profile... On 3/23/07, harleyknall <knall@...> wrote:
It came with 5 bits.... I am unsure what each one is for.... But |
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Re: Homier Lathe Arrived Today !
I'm surprised and glad to hear so many people found that helpful. And
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please accept my apologies for the lousy (free) hosting. I tested it as best I could with Firefox and konqueror and they seemed to work fine with it. Thank you Mike for providing an alternative! Those speed control divisions are what appear on my non-Sieg mini-lathe. If someone's got a set that would be more helpful or popular, I would only be too happy to redraw it to suit. If hosting ever disappears entirely or some trouble is met, please feel free to contact me by email and I'll send them along. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ed" <edo@...> wrote:
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Re: Just got the cummins 7x12 need help with tooling
Congratulations on your new toy! I bought the same machine a while
back, and know exactly how you feel. The tools that came with mine (red painted soft metal with brazed tips?) aren't very good. It is WELL worth your time to learn how to make your own tools and grind what profiles you need. Some really good information can be found at www.mini-lathe.com (buy the premium content - highly recommended), as well as the "Learning" link at www.littlemachineshop.com. Get yourself some HSS tool blanks and a grinder, and make lots of chips! One warning though.... it's VERY addictive. Have fun. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "harleyknall" <knall@...> wrote: But I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on somescrap. a "turning tool"as to which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90degrees to the workpiece for all these operations?that I know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need tocomplete. Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits Ihave seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em. |
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Re: Just got the cummins 7x12 need help with tooling
Hi,
The 5 piece tool set commonly included is pretty much crap. But that's probably what you want for those initial stuff ups. The usual set comprises 5 brazed carbide tipped tools, painted red. At 2 down you're 40% of the way to graduating to something better. One has a symetrical V shape and can be used for external threading. Two more provide angled cutting from left and right with sufficient angle to reach into a 90 degree squared up shoulder in the work. Incidentally, the one that cuts from the right is called a right hand tool, the other a left hand tool. A fourth tool is for more general cutting. It will give a cleaner finish but can't get into corners. Finally, the fifth is almost parallel sided but somewhat wider at the cutting end. That's actually a parting tool. Use it gently at low RPM only. Mine broke on first use on a light feed at around 200 RPM. It was mounted about 10 thou low and the job rolled up onto it. The cutting edge of a tool should be on spindle centre height. Any lower and the work has a tendency to roll over the tool and jam. Any higher and the angled relief below the cutting tip has a tendency to drag on the job, keeping the tip from cutting as it should. If you're a slow learner like me you just press harder to make it cut with the effect that the rubbing work-hardens the job and it still doesn't cut. Since you still have a few of those little red devils left you're not done learning yet. Stick some more scrap in the chuck and keep learning before you buy more tooling. I'd suggest you learn to grind your own HSS blanks. It's a necessary skill eventually. I've had limited success with carbide inserts on small lathes. Perhaps some pre-ground HSS tools would be a good start. That way you'll know the tool is properly ground before you start. They're also a good template for when you start grinding your own. John --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "harleyknall" <knall@...> wrote: But I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on somescrap. a "turning tool"as to which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90degrees to the workpiece for all these operations?that I know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need tocomplete. Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits Ihave seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em. |
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Re: Just got the cummins 7x12 need help with tooling
G'day Harley.
I didn't know what to do with some of the bits that came with my lathe either so I bought some blanks and ground my own tools. Have a look on minilathe web site and in the Little machine shop web site also Mini-lathe.org.uk. Each site has info abour grinding tools and their uses. The concensus of opinion is that you are better off grinding your own out of High Speed Steel blanks than using the cheap carbide sets you can buy. Look on eBay at ToolTimes and others, they sell pregound HSS tools and HSS blanks. HSS has the advantage that if you stuff the edge you can regrind it. Grinding tools is not difficult and is an invaluable skill, it is also cheaper, money to spend on other things. Some have suggested that HHS can give a better finish. Bench mounted grinders are not expensive and useful for other things. To gain confidence in tool grinding I recommend gettine some square section mild steel, probably available from a hardware store near you. Cut it into blanks and practice cutting the tool profiles you want. I had to do this during training before I was allowed on a lathe. The only carbide tools I now have are internal and external thread cutting and then only because they were available cheaply through eBay. All I have said has been debated recently in another thread; scan back through the last two weeks. Regarding your associated questions the above web sites will provide the answers. I tend to use only a couple of tool shapes and adjust the angle of the tool to the lathe access to get the type of cut I want eg roughing, finishing and left and right facing. A "V" shaped with a rounded nose is most versatile, it lets you do many operations without changing tool, you only have to vary the angle. One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "harleyknall" <knall@...> wrote: But I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on somescrap. a "turning tool"as to which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90degrees to the workpiece for all these operations?that I know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need tocomplete. Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits Ihave seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em. |
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Just got the cummins 7x12 need help with tooling
harleyknall
It came with 5 bits.... I am unsure what each one is for.... But
I am sure I destroyed 2 of em learning to use the lathe on some scrap. Ruined 1 by running the lathe in reverse....ruined the other having it set to low in relation to the tailstock hight. ANYWHO...... I think I know how to operate the thing now. I need to get a "parting tool" a tool to thread with, and a "turning tool" Where to get ? what size to get? what style to get? as I mentioned i have 5 difrant bits in front of me and I am oblivious as to which is for what operation. Should the tool be mounted 90 degrees to the workpiece for all these operations? Thanks guys, I got enough of a "feel" for the machine tonight that I know it is MORE than enough machine for the task I need to complete. Just need to know what bits to use for what operation, the bits I have seen MOSTLY come labeled with stock #'s not USES labeled on em. |
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Re: WEISS vs SIEG
G'day Andy & Robin
The prices in the Chester catalogue answer my question. They list the "Conquest" at ?365 and the DB7V at ?475. The "Conquest" only includes basic extras whereas the DB7V includes a 4 jaw chuck, steadies and other goodies in the package. For only an extra ?110 (AUD275) you get a better machine plus the extra gear you would have to purchase anyway. All I can say is "I wish the DB7V had been available in Oz when I purchased my lathe." By comparison you can get in Oz a 7x12 like the "Conquest" for AUD655 = ?262 on eBay and from a machinery house for AUD799 = ?320. Being closer to China does have its advantages even if we do lose our jobs. Does the DB7V show up in the US? Has anybody seen it in Oz? One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Robin" <robandjan@...> wrote: manufacturer as the warco lathe. Apart from the the Tail Stock being locked down to the lathe bed by a nut and bolt,and the fact that it was a nicer colour, I couldn't see any difference. Chester price it at ?475
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Re: WEISS vs SIEG
I saw this Chester Lathe at the London Model Engineering Exhibition.
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The Chester rep said that it wasn't sourced from the same manufacturer as the warco lathe. Apart from the the Tail Stock being locked down to the lathe bed by a nut and bolt,and the fact that it was a nicer colour, I couldn't see any difference. Chester price it at ?475 Robin --- In 7x12minilathe@..., andrew franks <andyf1108@...> wrote:
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Re: WEISS vs SIEG
andrew franks
Sehr geehrte Herr Ian!
Es spricht alles dafur... oh, I can't keep it up, and anyway, I don't know how to do umlauts, the scharfes S and things on this keyboard. You could be right about Weiss, I suppose, though for reasons already stated, I think it unlikely that a German firm would opt for Seig as a trading name with which to be associated. Like you, I intend no racial slur, but all nations have bits of history which they would rather hadn't happened. mit Freundlichen Grussen, Andy steam4ian <fosterscons@...> wrote: Guten Morgen alles fruender. Robin's research discovered that the WM180V is manufactured in China by Weiss. Well done! Andy wrote "Weiss is German for white, and Sieg is German for victory - the Chinese seem to be attracted to German-sounding trade-names" Based on our commercial experience in Oz this is to be expected. Both Weiss and Sieg are probably German owned companies which have moved off- shore to take advantage of lower wages and other 3rd world advantages. Rather than being owned by Mssrs Wong and Lee they are probable owned by Herrs Schwartz und Schmid. (Please note that the above ethnic stereo- typing is in no way intended as a slur on any race colour or individual but is simply used to illustrate a point.) In Oz we have had whole factories move offshore, from heavy power equipment to food processing to boot manfacture. Whole factories have been packed up over a weekend to go to China or Thailalnd, the ownership does not change. Point of this dicussion? These lathes are not cheap copies of something better but follow a European design. The weeknesses of Sieg's design are more likely to be of commercial origin than representative of any ethnic shortcomings. The Weiss lathe would appear a better product than the Sieg 7x12. But as value for money, Apart from Warco what other pricing information do we have? Enough ranting or I will be relegated to the 7x10 group! One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. |
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WEISS vs SIEG
Guten Morgen alles fruender.
Robin's research discovered that the WM180V is manufactured in China by Weiss. Well done! Andy wrote "Weiss is German for white, and Sieg is German for victory - the Chinese seem to be attracted to German-sounding trade-names" Based on our commercial experience in Oz this is to be expected. Both Weiss and Sieg are probably German owned companies which have moved off- shore to take advantage of lower wages and other 3rd world advantages. Rather than being owned by Mssrs Wong and Lee they are probable owned by Herrs Schwartz und Schmid. (Please note that the above ethnic stereo- typing is in no way intended as a slur on any race colour or individual but is simply used to illustrate a point.) In Oz we have had whole factories move offshore, from heavy power equipment to food processing to boot manfacture. Whole factories have been packed up over a weekend to go to China or Thailalnd, the ownership does not change. Point of this dicussion? These lathes are not cheap copies of something better but follow a European design. The weeknesses of Sieg's design are more likely to be of commercial origin than representative of any ethnic shortcomings. The Weiss lathe would appear a better product than the Sieg 7x12. But as value for money, Apart from Warco what other pricing information do we have? Enough ranting or I will be relegated to the 7x10 group! One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian |
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Re: Warco WM180 manufacturer.
andrew franks
Hello, Ellis
The picture on the website isn't quite up-to-date. The digital readout shown in the inset picture is now incorporated in the curved front panel, above the speed control knob, and the tailstock is now locked by a proper lever at the back. My only quibbles are that (a) there is no reverse for the leadscrew (only for the whole lathe), so you can't do LH threads, but I'm working on that. (b) it hasn't got a backgear, so you are limited to the two speed ranges and commensurate torques which are achieved (unlke the mini-lathe) by shifting a drive belt to different pulleys..Mind you, there's much more space inside the headstock casting than on a mini-lathe.... Andy Ellis Cory <ellis103@...> wrote: .......Hello Ellis If you go to www.warco.co.uk and just type wm180 in their search box it should come right up....... Thanks. Ellis --------------------------------- Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. |
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Re: Tempering
I routinely heat small items for hardening with a "propane" torch. I
do use a couple of firebricks to make a 2 brick forge. I know it is hot enough when it will not attract a rare earth magnet. I have heard that MAPP gas with a propane burner is not as hot as propane .. I suspect that is so ... make sure you have the right attachment to your MAPP. What is a small item: up to 1/4 X 2 X 2 easily that would be wood planer blades and chisels. Drill Rod 1/2 X 2 inches also. You'll know it works when after quinching it is glass hard, won't cut with a file. Temper is a 250 degree oven for 1/2 to 1 hour. Directions on my O1 steel packaging. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., <gregorstransky@...> wrote: home machinery it is possible to temper metal using a MAPP gas torch. Ihave tried this on a 4x1/2 punch made out of annealed 4140 with astandard MAPP gas torch suitable for plumbing work. I was unsuccessful because thepunch did not get hot enough. Any suggestions? Thank you. |
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Re: Warco WM180 manufacturer.
mozziesplat
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" <ellis103@...> wrote:
Any link to a picture, info. please ? Thanks.Hello Ellis If you go to www.warco.co.uk and just type wm180 in their search box it should come right up.. |
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Re: Warco WM180 manufacturer.
mozziesplat
Hello Andy and Robin I have just placed my order today for the WM180
with the metric leadscrew.. it should arrive sometime next week. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., andrew franks <andyf1108@...> wrote: with Seig, because of the similarity in the cross- and top-slides, but that obviously isn't so. Weiss is German for white, and Sieg is German for victory - theChinese seem to be attracted to German-sounding trade-names, though someone should have told Sieg that theirs still has overtones from 60-odd years ago. Like you, I'm pretty happy with my Warco-Weiss, too - it workedwell straight from the crate..I think Chris ("Mozziesplat") has just ordered one, too. Andymember of this forum. I have had my one for just over a Year and believe it to be a lovely little lathe. Trawling through the Internet I have found the address of the original manufacturer of these lathes in China. They can be found at I don't know if any US seller re- badges these, but it might be worth an email to the company. I know this site is virtually dedicated to the Seig mini lathe, but for just a little bit more cash you can have one of these. Warco provide all the optional items free, except the Collet Chuck and Collet Holder. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. |
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Re: My 8x12 is here :)
Mike Payson
Not sure if it answers your specific questions, but there is a
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greatfature comparison of the various lathes as According to that, the 8x12 takes a "plain back bolt-on" chuck, like the 7x lathes. Whether that means that they are directly compatible or not, i'm not certain. Presumably that also meeans that the spindle is not threaded. The folks at LMS would likely know for sure. They've always been extremely helpful when I've called. Their number is (800) 981 9663. Mike On 3/23/07, rancerupp <rupps@...> wrote:
Ward, I found the tool size from my earlier request. I'll write it |
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