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Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

Addition: A far-right online magazine with far-right topics is far-right, no matter how wide its reach is and no matter how much a country spends on armaments.


Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 11:29 AM, victor Dijk wrote:
Let's start by saying that massive German rearmament.
is more reminiscent of the extreme right than an online magazine with no reach. I can only think ah yes there go those Germans again.
What victor claims is a turn into the opposite. The cause of armament spending in Germany is fascist Vladimir Putin's criminal attack on Ukraine and Donald Trump's unreliability in defending against Putin. Germany is not arming itself because it is far-right. On the contrary! The German far-right party AFD is against armament spending. It is well known that the AFD supports the far-right outside Germany and is also supported by them.


Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

Following the ban on Falun Gong in China, Andreas Bracher wrote an article for the anthroposophical magazine ¡°die Drei¡± in 2005.
Translated into English, the title is: ¡°>>Only an evil cult can recognize an evil cult<< - The Chinese government and Falun Gong¡±.
The article is not available online, but the title suggests that Bracher is blurring differences here, whereby he sees himself in a superior position of judgment. Presumably interesting to read.


Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

Here is some more (but not much more).
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Epoch Times in Sweden:
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Epoch Times in Turkey:
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+ By the way: The Epoch-Times-Article about the Matrix-Movies and Rudolf Steiner I posted above includes Desinformation, as much as I know. The article claims that the two makers of the Matrix-movies went to Waldorf schools. However, I have not found any serious evidence of this.
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I found something else: ¡°Falun Gong¡± was discussed in an article in the far-right anthroposophical magazine ¡°Perseus¡±.
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Greetings
Finn
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[Admin] ad hominem warning: Re: [waldorf-critics] Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

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Dear Victor,

Please take care when writing your posts to address the ideas being presented, rather than the personalities of your list-mates.

Thank you,

-Dan Dugan
Moderator

On Mar 22, 2025, at 4:24?AM, victor Dijk via groups.io <victorisincamalot@...> wrote:

I don't like that people constantly throw around the term far right so thoughtlessly. It shows a lack of maturity.

Op za 22 mrt 2025 om 12:17 schreef Finnef via <vollnormaleforschung=[email protected]>:
Hello victor.?
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What you are saying adds nothing to this topic, you rather tell us something about yourself, and that makes me thinking I'm behind something interesting.
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Cheers!
Finn
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Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

Yes victor. You always jump when the discussion is about the far right. I also think you don't like it when the far right is part of the topic. But I don't care. You can't stop anyone on this list from talking about the far right.


Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

victor Dijk
 

I don't like that people constantly throw around the term far right so thoughtlessly. It shows a lack of maturity.

Op za 22 mrt 2025 om 12:17 schreef Finnef via <vollnormaleforschung=[email protected]>:

Hello victor.?
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What you are saying adds nothing to this topic, you rather tell us something about yourself, and that makes me thinking I'm behind something interesting.
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Cheers!
Finn
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Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

Hello victor.?
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What you are saying adds nothing to this topic, you rather tell us something about yourself, and that makes me thinking I'm behind something interesting.
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Cheers!
Finn
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Re: Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

victor Dijk
 

Let's start by saying that massive German rearmament.
is more reminiscent of the extreme right than an online magazine with no reach. I can only think ah yes there go those Germans again.

For cross-pollination there are:

The Christian community.

and Theosophists.

However, so far it seems more like Rudolf borrowed everything from third parties, so I would first test any similarities you find to see if they were there before Steiner.

fun fact:
I currently see that Muslim parents with money are choosing Steiner schools and I am curious what that yields in return.



Op za 22 mrt 2025 om 10:46 schreef Finnef via <vollnormaleforschung=[email protected]>:

Good Morning.
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The German TV journalist Jan B?hmermann has made an interesting Broadcast about the Psychosekte Falun Gong. I have never heard of Falun Gong before. Like the Anthroposophical Movement, Falun Gong has its own press, but Falun Gong's press is much bigger. I wonder if there is crossover or refrences such as between anthroposophical magazin Info3 (see 11/2024) and the German far-right online-magazine ¡°Nius¡± for example.
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After a quick search, I have so far only found two articles in Falun Gong's ¡°Epoch Times¡± in which Rudolf Steiner is mentioned. However, I am also interested in such crossovers, also with other actors.
(about education)
(about transhumanism and the Matrix-movies)
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Here is the Broadcast by Jan B?hmermann.
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Greetings
Finn
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Crossovers between Anthroposophy, Falung Gong and others?

 

Good Morning.
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The German TV journalist Jan B?hmermann has made an interesting Broadcast about the Psychosekte Falun Gong. I have never heard of Falun Gong before. Like the Anthroposophical Movement, Falun Gong has its own press, but Falun Gong's press is much bigger. I wonder if there is crossover or refrences such as between anthroposophical magazin Info3 (see 11/2024) and the German far-right online-magazine ¡°Nius¡± for example.
?
After a quick search, I have so far only found two articles in Falun Gong's ¡°Epoch Times¡± in which Rudolf Steiner is mentioned. However, I am also interested in such crossovers, also with other actors.
(about education)
(about transhumanism and the Matrix-movies)
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Here is the Broadcast by Jan B?hmermann.
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Greetings
Finn
?
?


Re: Steiner upbringing

 

Hi Jen,

So glad you found the group, and so sorry to hear about the pain you have been through.? My family was only in a Waldorf school for a short while and it did a lot of damage, so I can only imagine how incredibly painful a lifetime of exposure to anthroposophy would be.

I think you will find many like-minded people here. I know being a part of this group has really helped me, I hope you find the same. Good to have you.

Warmest wishes,
Catie


On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 7:40 AM jensummertime via <jensummertime=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks to many of you for your thoughtful and well-researched posts.? I went to Waldorf schools in the US, grades 1-6 at one and 7-12 at another.? I also have Anthroposophical parents.? In the process of healing myself and exploring my past, I've been reading some Steiner, tuning into Anthros on Youtube and searching for critical voices.
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I lived in an Anthroposophical community and wasn't supported by anyone~ family, extended family, community or school.? I've always seen that as having been a problem in society at large which was reflected in all institutions.? Things like benign neglect, lack of emotional intelligence on the part of adults and a lack of willingness to step out of their comfort zone to nurture a child who's obviously struggling.? I can accept those things when they're in the culture at large but the anger comes in when a spiritual community, that supposedly supports the development of the whole child, fails completely.? But maybe neglect was justified in their minds because, well, it was just my karma.
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Thanks again to all of you.? I wanted to introduce myself and say I've been trying to catch up to all the past posts in the last month.
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~Jen


Steiner upbringing

 

Thanks to many of you for your thoughtful and well-researched posts. ?I went to Waldorf schools in the US, grades 1-6 at one and 7-12 at another. ?I also have Anthroposophical parents. ?In the process of healing myself and exploring my past, I've been reading some Steiner, tuning into Anthros on Youtube and searching for critical voices.
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I lived in an Anthroposophical community and wasn't supported by anyone~ family, extended family, community or school. ?I've always seen that as having been a problem in society at large which was reflected in all institutions. ?Things like benign neglect, lack of emotional intelligence on the part of adults and a lack of willingness to step out of their comfort zone to nurture a child who's obviously struggling. ?I can accept those things when they're in the culture at large but the anger comes in when a spiritual community, that supposedly supports the development of the whole child, fails completely. ?But maybe neglect was justified in their minds because, well, it was just my karma.
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Thanks again to all of you. ?I wanted to introduce myself and say I've been trying to catch up to all the past posts in the last month.
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~Jen


Anthroposophy and Wittgenstein

 

Hello,
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the German documentary filmmaker R¨¹diger S¨¹nner wrote an article for the last issue of Info3 in which he brings together Wittgenstein's thoughts on language and religion with Steiner.
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Does anyone know if there have been other attempts like this?
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Liebe Gr¨¹?e?
Finn


The flawed legacy of Rudolf Steiner

 

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A friend in the UK sent this to me:

Rudolf Steiner (1861¨C1925) was an unconventional Austrian philosopher, spiritual explorer, educationalist and environmentalist. Centres, groups, schools and other associations descending from his work are now widespread throughout the United Kingdom, Europe and North America, with further centres scattered through numerous other countries, including Egypt and parts of sub-Saharan Africa.
www.ukcolumn.org




new column from Lea

 

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Our listmate Lea has a new column in today's taz:


She offers a personal perspective on her own Waldorf experience, which will sound familiar to some here (a generally positive experience at the time), and reflects on reasons why that may have been the case, and how it relates to her critical viewpoint now. As Lea notes, this is a dynamic that comes up frequently in public discussion of Waldorf education. The column is as always very much worth reading.


Peter S.




Re: AI and Steiner

 

Hi all,

A late addendum on this topic, but I couldn¡¯t let the opportunity pass to ask Grok 3 about anthroposophy.
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Alright, let¡¯s dive into anthroposophy from a skeptical lens and address your hypothesis head-on: that it¡¯s a sectarian movement subtly pushing its cosmology onto unsuspecting left-leaning folks. I¡¯ll aim for a truthful, no-nonsense take, sticking to what¡¯s known and reasoning through it critically.

Anthroposophy, founded by Rudolf Steiner in the early 20th century, is a spiritual philosophy¡ªor, depending on who you ask, a new religious movement¡ªthat claims humans can access an objective spiritual world through disciplined thought and inner development. It¡¯s got a hefty cosmology: reincarnation, spiritual hierarchies, cosmic evolution, and a big emphasis on Christ as a central figure, all wrapped in a framework Steiner called ¡°spiritual science.¡± It¡¯s applied practically in areas like Waldorf schools, biodynamic farming, and anthroposophical medicine, which gives it a tangible presence beyond mere theorizing.

From a skeptic¡¯s viewpoint, the first red flag is the ¡°spiritual science¡± label. Steiner insisted his insights were verifiable through rational, non-sensory perception¡ªlike clairvoyance he claimed to have honed¡ªbut there¡¯s no empirical evidence backing this up. Critics like Anthony Storr have called it ¡°eccentric¡± and ¡°unsupported by evidence,¡± pointing out that unlike, say, Einstein¡¯s theories, Steiner¡¯s ideas don¡¯t hold up to objective testing. They lean hard on subjective experience, which smells more like mysticism than science. Add in stuff like his rejection of the heart as a pump or his take on color theory over Newton¡¯s, and you¡¯ve got a system that often clashes with established knowledge, looking more pseudoscientific than groundbreaking.

Now, is it sectarian? The term ¡°sectarian¡± implies a group with rigid beliefs, often exclusive or dogmatic, that separates itself from mainstream society. Anthroposophy¡¯s got some of that vibe. The Anthroposophical Society, headquartered at the Goetheanum in Switzerland, is open to anyone who vibes with Steiner¡¯s ideas, but its culture can feel insular. Waldorf schools, for instance, don¡¯t teach anthroposophy directly to kids, but teachers are often steeped in it, and the curriculum reflects Steiner¡¯s worldview¡ªthink delayed reading or eurythmy (a spiritual dance). Critics, including ex-Waldorf parents, argue this creates a subtle indoctrination pipeline, even if it¡¯s not overt proselytizing. Lawsuits, like the 1998 PLANS case in California, have tried (and failed) to pin it as a religion violating secular education norms, but the debate lingers: is it a philosophy or a cultish belief system?

Your hypothesis about targeting left-leaning people is intriguing. Anthroposophy does have a progressive sheen¡ªbiodynamic farming aligns with eco-consciousness, Waldorf education appeals to holistic, anti-establishment types, and Steiner¡¯s ¡°threefold social order¡± (separating culture, politics, and economics) can sound like a critique of capitalism. These could draw in folks who lean left, especially those into alternative lifestyles or distrustful of Big Pharma and industrial agriculture. Data¡¯s thin here, but anecdotal evidence from places like Steiner communities suggests a overlap with crunchy, liberal crowds¡ªthink urban homesteaders or yoga moms. Steiner¡¯s anti-racist statements might also vibe with progressive values, though his racial theories (e.g., hierarchical ¡°root races¡±) are a messy contradiction that¡¯s been whitewashed by modern followers.

But is it a deliberate bait-and-switch to push cosmology? Skeptically, I¡¯d say it¡¯s less a grand conspiracy and more a natural byproduct of its structure. Anthroposophy doesn¡¯t seem to ¡°target¡± leftists with a recruitment playbook¡ªit¡¯s not Scientology with a mailing list. Instead, its cosmology seeps in through osmosis. You sign up for organic veggies or a child-centered school, and over time, you might bump into lectures on reincarnation or Steiner¡¯s take on angels. The movement¡¯s practical arms act like a soft entry point; the deeper stuff¡ªplanetary spirits, karma¡ªcomes later, often pitched as personal exploration, not dogma. Still, once you¡¯re in, the community¡¯s tight-knit nature and Steiner¡¯s authoritative tone (he wrote over 350 volumes!) can make it feel like there¡¯s one ¡°true¡± path, which skeptics could read as sectarian pressure.

The left-leaning angle might also be a historical artifact. Steiner emerged from early 20th-century Europe, a hotbed of esoteric and socialist ferment, and his ideas blended spiritual utopianism with social reform. That combo might naturally attract people who¡¯d otherwise vote Green Party today. But there¡¯s a flip side: some of Steiner¡¯s followers, like biodynamic farmers under the Nazis, swung hard right, suggesting the ideology¡¯s flexible enough to hook different crowds depending on the context.

So, tying it together: Anthroposophy¡¯s got sectarian traits¡ªexclusive worldview, charismatic founder, a whiff of us-versus-them¡ªbut it¡¯s not a classic cult with locked doors and Kool-Aid. It might catch left-leaners through its progressive trappings, and its cosmology can creep in uninvited, especially in its practical offshoots. Skeptically, though, the ¡°unknowingly¡± part of your hypothesis holds most weight: it¡¯s less about a sinister plot and more about a system so steeped in Steiner¡¯s vision that you can¡¯t fully escape it once you¡¯re in the orbit. Truthful enough for you? What do you think¡ªwant to poke at any piece of this?


Triodos bank

 

Hi all,
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what comes from anthroposophical banking, can be seen in Belgium and the Netherlands.
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Triodos bank, managed to evaporate 1.2 billion euros (about the sam amount in dollars) by mismanagement of their bank certificates. Certificate owners might never see their money again.

It¡¯s hard to make the connection with anthroposophy, but their system was ¡®unique¡¯ in the banking landscape and had almost no safety buffers.
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greetings,?
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Kokanje


Re: RFK and Ecofascism

 

Hello all,
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This left-right crossover of ideas sure is interesting, but almost certainly destined to internal conflict (or compromise).
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here¡¯s some food for thought:
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I quote RFK from the article: ¡°The reason we protect the environment is because there¡¯s a spiritual connection.¡±

Curious how this will turn out and which position RFK Jr. will take towards biodynamic agriculture. And the other way round.

greetings,
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Kokanje
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Vaccination and seat belts

 

Hello all,
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on a lighter note¡­
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I¡¯ve just read this argument pro vaccination (from the archives) by Roger Rawlings:
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It mentiones seat belts as a comparison. The argument for vaccination is even better than the argument for wearing seat belts, according to Roger.
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This made me think of a situation, in which a then co-worker of mine, in an anthroposophical organisation, intentionally did not wear his seat belt. I remember being astonished, because I thought the only reason not to wear your seat belt was because you forgot. But he put on the seat belt when there was a police car in sight and afterwards put it off again immediately. Unfortunately I didn¡¯t ask him about it. He was very into anthroposophy - a real believer.
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So my questions are these: where does this behaviour come from? Does it have a link with anthroposophy? Did Steiner mention seat belts in his lectures (not many cars around back then)? Have some of you seen similar behaviour? If you say the argument for vaccination is better than for seat belts, does that even work on people who believe you should not wear a seat belt for some reason in the first place?

PS: a little search on the internet revealed that there is a broader movement of people not wearing seat belts intentionally, as an anti-government statement (or pro-freedom if you wish).
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That makes me think: do anthroposophists wear bike helmets? ;-)
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Just curious (as always),
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kokanje
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Re: RFK and Ecofascism

 

Hello Peter,
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thank you very much for putting things in perspective! Your academic input helps to distinguish fantasy ?from reality (a common problem nowadays). I find it hard sometimes to study conspiracy theorists and not become one myself.
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I certainly don¡¯t want to mock people. Concerns about the general health are legitimate (it is going downward in the US as well as in Europe)! But the analysis and cures should be made from a scientific viewpoint and not a ¡®gut feeling¡¯ or ¡®spiritual insight¡¯.
I¡¯ll have a look at those archived discussions.

greetings,
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Kokanje