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Re: Now that Reddit is dying...


 

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For years, across multiple employers, I actually had a fair bit of success in evangelizing TDD.?

I noticed two keys:
1. There was an objective measure of quality that everyone monitored and cared, and we were far more consistent than other groups in keeping quality high, and
2. I was able to work in person with developers who wondered how we were doing it.?

Since we moved to remote, and in a process that makes it much harder to assign blame for failures, I have found it much harder to interest developers in learning.

I have also found, in working with others, that the very idea of a test is, to most people, something that is inherently done to check a built product, not something that guides it. That has had me trying to think of another approach to selling it. In a Twitter conversation, I learned that some have suggested changing the terminology. One suggestion has been ¡°Example-guided development,¡± but a friend who has followed my suggestion, and used to teach math in college found that his students generally thought of examples as necessarily very simple.

I have another idea that I am looking to write up, and would require some background to develop, but I agree that a basic problem is the way most people learn to program: syntax first and then play. It is not helped by university computer science programs which generally involve working on programs far smaller than those professional developers tend to work on - and where you can actually just keep the program in your own memory the whole time.?



On Jun 23, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Jeff Langr <jeff@...> wrote:

June 22, 2023 at 7:59 PM
Had I to guess, and I've had other of us first-generation graybeards guess, too, with similar response: I'd guess that?TDD as a practice has well under 1% mindshare. Very bad test-after is the trade norm these days.


I assent.

Russell Gold--As far as "reaching the rest:" I'm not sure, but here's what will always be an uphill (and losing) battle:

- teach people a programming language but let them figure out their own approach for how to put solutions together with code
- let them run wild with their homegrown skillz, building production software for any number of years, with few agreed-upon standards and minimal emphasis on quality and collaboration
- later tell them "you're doing it all wrong" and expect them to change their ingrained habits.

Way back when, I put my hand into an attempt to get the habituation started out of the gate. No one else came along.

Across a couple decades+ of teaching TDD, perhaps the best class I ever had was one complete full of developers with exactly 3 months of professional experience.

Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff Langr / +1-719-287-4335





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