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I just join this group and was hope someone who could give me some advice which mini CNC mill is good. I look at Mini CNC mill from Aliexpress. Is CNC 3018 Pro good? Are there other products that are better? I didn't want to spend more than $200.00. I don't want a big CNC mill machine. I don't have room for it. I will not do a lot of mills. Also, which software should we use to draw circuit board or draw schematic then convert to layout circuit board then plotting on CNC mill? I am still learning and don't know where to start. I have watch many CNC but never have done CNC my own before.
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Hi Reid, Suggest you use Autodesk "Eagle" for your schematic and pcb layout software.? The free version is excellent for small double sided boards, although it's a sophisticated software and will take time to learn to use effectively. This version has all the functionality of the licensed version, but won't allow multi layer large boards.
Not so sure about your target cost for a CNC machine - afraid you will need to think more in the region of $1000 + to get the necessary accuracy for "pcb.s".? I have a Stepcraft 420/2 with an industrial grade spindle (18,000rpm) which gives excellent results, however the total cost was a lot more than $1000 believe you me!!
Peter
On Thursday, 6 February 2020, 07:59:07 GMT, Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> wrote:
I just join this group and was hope someone who could give me some advice which mini CNC mill is good. I look at Mini CNC mill from Aliexpress. Is CNC 3018 Pro good? Are there other products that are better? I didn't want to spend more than $200.00. I don't want a big CNC mill machine. I don't have room for it. I will not do a lot of mills. Also, which software should we use to draw circuit board or draw schematic then convert to layout circuit board then plotting on CNC mill? I am still learning and don't know where to start. I have watch many CNC but never have done CNC my own before.
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Hi,? i do have 2 Proton MF70 Cnc mills which are good enough for CNC milling? And i might sale one ,..? I use it specially for PCB milling that is why i have on one an ATC head??had them for offer? thomas?
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Hi Reid,
My two cents...
I use ZEN TOOLWORKS (ZTW) CNC machine along with MACH3 software.
My models are made with ILLUSTRATOR and exported with CNC-GCODE script, after a few manual changes in the gcode my cuts are high quality
I draw PCB with Eagle free version and engraved on the ZTW with autoleveler and a Vcurve bit
Alain
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Hello, I uses Eagle since 20years, and Now I send my Layouts to China. www.jcbpcb.com. Perfect Service and you need Not a CNC Machine.? Bernd
Von meinem Samsung Galaxy Smartphone gesendet.
-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -------- Von: Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> Datum: 06.02.20 08:59 (GMT+01:00) Betreff: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
I just join this group and was hope someone who could give me some advice which mini CNC mill is good. I look at Mini CNC mill from Aliexpress. Is CNC 3018 Pro good? Are there other products that are better? I didn't want to spend more than $200.00. I don't want a big CNC mill machine. I don't have room for it. I will not do a lot of mills. Also, which software should we use to draw circuit board or draw schematic then convert to layout circuit board then plotting on CNC mill? I am still learning and don't know where to start. I have watch many CNC but never have done CNC my own before.
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The latest revision of Fusion 360 has now incorporated Eagle.
I do not know it the size limit is still there.
Steve
On Thursday, February 6, 2020, 2:43:27 AM CST, PETER HARRISON via Groups.Io <petergharrison@...> wrote:
Hi Reid, Suggest you use Autodesk "Eagle" for your schematic and pcb layout software.? The free version is excellent for small double sided boards, although it's a sophisticated software and will take time to learn to use effectively. This version has all the functionality of the licensed version, but won't allow multi layer large boards.
Not so sure about your target cost for a CNC machine - afraid you will need to think more in the region of $1000 + to get the necessary accuracy for "pcb.s".? I have a Stepcraft 420/2 with an industrial grade spindle (18,000rpm) which gives excellent results, however the total cost was a lot more than $1000 believe you me!!
Peter
On Thursday, 6 February 2020, 07:59:07 GMT, Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> wrote:
I just join this group and was hope someone who could give me some advice which mini CNC mill is good. I look at Mini CNC mill from Aliexpress. Is CNC 3018 Pro good? Are there other products that are better? I didn't want to spend more than $200.00. I don't want a big CNC mill machine. I don't have room for it. I will not do a lot of mills. Also, which software should we use to draw circuit board or draw schematic then convert to layout circuit board then plotting on CNC mill? I am still learning and don't know where to start. I have watch many CNC but never have done CNC my own before.
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I bought a similar mill a year ago to try and mill PCBs. Here is what I found:
It comes as a LOT of parts, you have to assemble it yourself. The positioning accuracy of the finished machine depends on how well you build it. Make SURE you follow the directions carefully and have a precision square handy, make sure that the assembled parts are square to each other. If they are not square, all bets are off. There is nothing in the design that guarantees things will be square. When assembling put the screws in enough to hold things together but not fully tight, use the precision square to get things really square, then tighten the screws.
I had to put mine together twice to get it really right (partly because I had a piece in backwards, CAREFULLY look at the pictures to make sure you get it right!)
If built well the positioning accuracy is actually quite good, much better than I expected.
The big problem with these is the spindle motor, it is HORRIBLE. You can't get anywhere near fast enough speed from this one. When the cutter is actually cutting something it slows way down. Even with a really good cutter it is very difficult to get good results.
If you use a very shallow cut, just enough to cut through the copper layer it can sort of work.
I highly recommend a good, real CNC spindle. Unfortunately finding one that will fit is tough, the holder is 42mm, most of the small CNC spindles are 52 or 55mm and won't fit. You CAN get good brushless 42mm CNC spindles but there aren't very many on the market. You need a separate spindle controller and power supply, so it is best to buy a bundle with all three. You will probably pay $150 to $200 for this. The addition of this spindle turns the 3018 from an excruciating experience in frustration into a very useful machine.
One thing you find out when doing PCB milling is that PCBs are NEVER EVER flat. You are milling a very thin layer of copper, you will find that at some parts of the board the cutter doesn't even touch the copper, some areas it goes part way through the copper and other areas it digs down into the substrate. To deal with this you need a probing auto-leveling system in the gcode sender you use. Several of them have this, make sure you learn how to use it and run the process every time you go to mill a board.
When buying a 3018 machine make sure it comes with a 24V power supply, some companies sell them with 12V supplies, it will work, but not very well. They are really designed to work at 24V.
If that $200 is really the limit you are going to have a very frustrating time trying to get workable PCBs out of this. If you can go $400 then you can get the good spindle and then things are MUCH easier. There is still a lot to learn but at least the machine won't be fighting against you.
I agree with the others, I use Eagle for board designs. But as has been mentioned Autodesk has bundled Eagle with Fusion 360, so you probably have to get the free version of Fusion 360 to get Eagle.
John S.
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On 2/5/2020 6:48 PM, Reid Simonsen wrote: I just join this group and was hope someone who could give me some advice which mini CNC mill is good. I look at Mini CNC mill from Aliexpress. Is CNC 3018 Pro good? Are there other products that are better? I didn't want to spend more than $200.00. I don't want a big CNC mill machine. I don't have room for it. I will not do a lot of mills. Also, which software should we use to draw circuit board or draw schematic then convert to layout circuit board then plotting on CNC mill? I am still learning and don't know where to start. I have watch many CNC but never have done CNC my own before.
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Thomas / gamsga,? Curious, what price is an ATC like the one you show?
I am in the last stage of developing my low-cost ATC model
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I use Eagle with the gcode plugin - a (ULP) for Eagle, and a SainSmart 3018 which is just like the one you stated above. I use Candle to control the 3018 with a 20 degree V bit and this is my result. A PCB that was made from Mr. Carlson's LAB Schematic. As you can see it creates a one sided board for SMD parts. The main chip is a 20 tab IC on the top. LM3914V SMD. I did this after adding probes so I could use height map. I set the gcode to Z-0.2mm deep. Also, I had not added in homing switches yet. You can tell as I moved the board prior to drilling so I had to by hand realign. Holes are slightly off but usable. I did make a second one with the holes dead center. That is what I used to build the Capacitor Checker. I just never trashed this board so I had it as an example of what one can do. Hope this helps, but it takes days not hours of fiddling to get these results. I can be done and once done for under $200 you can have a great working system. It cost me over 200 hours of my time. And I am talking working time. Not the sitting around time waiting for a board to get height mapped and cut. Now from gcode to made board is about 30 min if I decide to do a detailed height map, otherwise half that time. 
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Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.
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John S.
Thank?you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?? I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.??
I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.
Reid
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960= [email protected]> wrote: Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.
Attachments:
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Here is one on aliexpress that I like:
,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53
This has the motor, controller and a tachometer which lets you know the actual speed of the spindle. It does NOT have a power supply. You can get kits just like this with a power supply but they are open frame power supplies, I don't like these around mills, especially when milling metal, little bits of metal can get down inside the supply and start a fire, blow up etc. I recommend a sealed table top supply, such as:
,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53
Get the 24V 10A version. You may need to find or make an adapter to get the DC out to the controller which does not have a standard DC connector.
The 3018 you first referenced is fine, just make sure you get one with a 24V supply. Note: if you get the separate spindle you will have TWO power supplies, one for the controller board on the mill and one for the spindle controller.
John S.
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On 2/9/2020 3:10 PM, Reid Simonsen wrote: John S.
Thank?you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?? I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.
I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.
Reid
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of
500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.
Attachments:
* 997C7B31-7571-4335-826D-FB2FBC4FADE0.jpeg
</g/pcbgcode/attachment/8048/0>
* 6B177761-A822-43B5-BCE6-2347812664A9.jpeg
</g/pcbgcode/attachment/8048/1>
* BFFD53B0-D9DB-4757-A570-055482D7D6F9.jpeg
</g/pcbgcode/attachment/8048/2>
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Wow. I can’t believe how cheap that stuff is!
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On Feb 9, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> wrote:
? John S.
Thank?you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?? I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.??
I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.
Reid On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960= [email protected]> wrote: Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.
Attachments:
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Yes but don’t expect anything fantastic for the price. These do not have a single piece of industrial grade componentry on them, and rely of the fact most people are happy to continually fiddle with
them.
I purchased a significantly more expensive and upgraded version compared to this, and it’s still a piece of crap out of the box.
After a lot of re-engineering the unit, it now makes a half decent pcb, but it needs a good amount of finessing to keep it consistent.
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of John Johnson via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, 10 February 2020 2:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
?
Wow. I can’t believe how cheap that stuff is!
On Feb 9, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> wrote:
?
John S.
Thank?you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?? I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the
power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.??
I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.
?
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960=[email protected]> wrote:
Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.
Attachments:
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Maybe there should be a subject change.? Have a look at the two fixtures whose photos I've attached.
I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level to the machine.? So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.? This works 100% of the time.? I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant thickness.
I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
john
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If your pcb's are always the same dimensions, you can add vacuum to the hdpe (or delrin) holder, that way you do not need the screws and the vacuum overcomes any board warping. No need to resurface your jig.
I have used this setup for years without failures.
cb
Get
Maybe there should be a subject change.? Have a look at the two fixtures
whose photos I've attached.
I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I
couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level
to the machine.? So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling
table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws
to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of
the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.? This works 100% of the
time.? I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant
thickness.
I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be
sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
john
Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
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I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to hold the PCBs down for milling. Dan Staver Tave Tech Corp. 3130 Hollycrest Dr. Colorado Springs, CO 80920 +1-719-359-5352 - office +1-719-502-1675 - cell tavetech - Skype dan.staver@... www.tavetech.com W3QDO
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On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...> wrote:
?Maybe there should be a subject change.? Have a look at the two fixtures whose photos I've attached.
I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level to the machine.? So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.? This works 100% of the time.? I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant thickness.
I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
john
Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
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when I put the fixture on the table there is no way to assure that it will be level. I don't have to surface it between boards if I don't remove the fixture, but i use the router for other projects which I use the vacuum chuck for.
do you ever remove your jig?
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On 2/10/20 3:15 PM, Christian Becerra wrote: if your pcb's are always the same dimensions, you can add vacuum to the hdpe (or delrin) holder, that way you do not need the screws and the vacuum overcomes any board warping. No need to resurface your jig.
I have used this setup for years without failures.
cb
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On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:05 AM, "John Ferguson via Groups.Io" <aol.com <mailto:jferg977=<a>@groups.io target=_blank>jferg977=aol.com <>@groups.io> wrote:
Maybe there should be a subject change.? Have a look at the two fixtures
whose photos I've attached.
I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I
couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level
to the machine.? So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling
table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws
to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of
the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.? This works 100% of the
time.? I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant
thickness.
I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be
sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
john
Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG:/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
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how did you get your bed flat?
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On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote: I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to hold the PCBs down for milling.
Dan Staver
Tave Tech Corp.
3130 Hollycrest Dr.
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
+1-719-359-5352 - office
+1-719-502-1675 - cell
tavetech - Skype
dan.staver@...
www.tavetech.com
W3QDO
On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...> wrote:
?Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two fixtures whose photos I've attached.
I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level to the machine.? So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.? This works 100% of the time.? I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant thickness.
I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
john
Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
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I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat. I don’t even worry about it. I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle. You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed. When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm X 20mm piece of PCB. It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger. I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping. ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ?
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From: John Ferguson via Groups.IoSent: Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill ? how did you get your bed flat? ? On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote: > I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to > hold the PCBs down for milling. >? > Dan Staver > Tave Tech Corp. > 3130 Hollycrest Dr. > Colorado Springs, CO 80920 > +1-719-359-5352 - office > +1-719-502-1675 - cell > tavetech - Skype > dan.staver@... > www.tavetech.com > W3QDO >? >> On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io >> <jferg977@...> wrote: >>? >> ?Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two >> fixtures whose photos I've attached. >>? >> I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found >> that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was >> absolutely level to the machine.? So I started with an MDF fixture >> bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so >> I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new >> setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level >> it.? This works 100% of the time.? I've had no bad experience with >> PCB's not being of constant thickness. >>? >> I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for >> HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would >> be sure to align with the ones in the fixture. >>? >> Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without >> leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching. >>? >>? >> john >>? >>? >> Attachments: >> DSC07301.JPG: /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0 >> pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: >> /g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1 >>? >>? >>? > ? ? ? ?
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CJD
John Johnson
Ken McNabb
